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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Symbolism of the scenes between Padme and Anakin

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by SmoovBillyDee, Aug 30, 2002.

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  1. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    Ok this is something I posted eons ago- and got lost in the LS thread so here goes:

    These are ideas of the Goddess from Joseph Campbell from his book "The Hero with A Thousand Faces." These are rather interesting observations if you think of Anakin and Padme:

    The ultimate adventure, when all the barriers and ogres have been overcome, is commonly represented as a mystical marriage of the triumphant hero-soul with the Queen Goddess of the World. This is the crisis at the nadir, the zenith, or at the uttermost edge of the earth, at the central point of the cosmos, in the tabernacle of the temple, or within the darkness of the deepest chamber of the heart.

    I think this best explains why Anakin and Padme had to get married from a mythological standpoint and why they appear to not be happy at the wedding. It is the next appropriate step for the 2 lovers. They are married on Naboo which, as I have pointed out is Paradise. Yet their love is forbidden, both A&P are rather worried because they are well aware of the crisis that is building in their hearts, and the full ramifications of what their actions could mean for the galaxy.


    The mythological figure of the Universal Mother imputes to the cosmos the feminine attributes of the first, nourishing and protecting presence. The fantasy is primarily spontaneous; for there exists a close and obvious correspondence between the attitude of the young child towards its mother and that of the adult toward the surrounding material world. But there has been also, in numerous religious traditions, a consciously controlled pedagogical utilization of this archetypal image for the purpose of the purging, balancing, and initiation of the mind into the nature of the visible world.

    To me the Cosmos represents Anakin here. He sees Padme as nourishing and protecting, ?your presence is soothing.? He does connect with Padme initially because she was the next caring female that entered his life when he was taken away from his mother. He basically switched over a lot of his maternal longings onto her.

    Padme is the one he sees as being able to keep him rational, balanced and on the course of goodness.

    She is also the death of everything that dies. The whole round of existence is accomplished within her sway, from birth, through adolescence, maturity, and senescence, to the grave. She is the womb and the tomb: the sow that eats her farrow. Thus she unites the "good" and the "bad," exhibiting the two modes of the remembered mother, not as personal only but as universal. The devotee is expected to contemplate the two with equal equanimity. Through this exercise his spirit is purged of its infantile, inappropriate sentimentalities and resentments, and his mind opened to the inscrutable presence which exists, not primarily as ?good? and ?bad? with respect to his childlike human convenience, his weal and woe, but as the law and image of the nature of being.

    Padme represents the ultimate mother in this story. She is not only the future mother of Luke and Leia, and symbolically the great mother whose act of natural childbirth is completely in the face of the cold, humanless Empire that will arrive, but she is the substitute mother to Anakin. She gives him unconditional love which is what Shmi always gave him. It is the one thing Anakin feels is missing in his life as a Jedi. The Order does not factor in love, it is why they rip the potential Jedis away from their mothers when they are too young to get attached. It is why Anakin will fail and fall. He is too closely linked to the raw human emotions that control him.

    For Anakin, his love for Padme allows him to grow up. He can finally purge himself of his need for his mothers love. And he must face his own actions, Padme is the only person who truly cares enough about him and forces him to face his demons within. Obi-Wan sticks by the rules of the Jedi and doesn?t try to help Anakin determine the possible cause of his nightmares, Padme sees in Anakin his troubles, directs him and makes him face his demons head on.

     
  2. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Here you guys are!!! I went to the "other" board and lo and behold there are only a couple of Obidala fans on....... :eek:

    Ladies- think - The Meditation scene on the big BIG screen!

    Oooh, I never thought of that..... [face_love]



     
  3. The_Abstract

    The_Abstract Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2002
    No why can't some people understand this, PLJ?

     
  4. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Because it doesn't focus on Saint Obi, that's why...

    I think that for the Godess cycle to be complete we're goign to see Padme' bite the big one... if she is the 'mother of all' in the figurative sense, then it makes sense that the discruction of the "mother" will go hand in hand with the distruction of the world....
     
  5. jedi-ES

    jedi-ES Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Though I agree with everything PLJ just wrote, as usual, I want to add one thing.

    What I think is the one thing that is interesting concerning the topics that PLJ brought up is that though Anakin is essentially more powerful than any being in the galaxy, he is fragile and he is not the ultimate creator.

    Padme provides this support. Just like PLJ said tht Padme can never be as powerful as Anakin, she is necessary for his ultimate success and the ultimate fulfillment of his potential. She is the only one who can calm him and direct his energies where they must go. With them as one in union, they truly are invincible.

    The other thing that highlights Padme's role is that no matter that Anakin is the Chosen One, he cannot give life. That is the sole territory of the female, as expressed in Padme. And it is this ability that eventually brings him back from "hell".

    As people, they fulfill everything that the other lacks. As mythological beings, Padme is the final and most crucial piece of the puzzle that will allow Anakin to fulfill his destiny because of what she represents and embodies - life and love.

    EDIT:

    And think about it: when she leaves (dies), what does Anakin embrace? Death and hate.

     
  6. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    DB

    Well exactly, Padme and Naboo represent everything that the Empire does not. They represent life, democracy, beauty, art and culture. The Empire is clinical, cold, male, and lifeless. Of course Padme must die. Symbolically when she dies all of those things that she represents will die in Anakin as well. He will cease to exist without her there to balance him.

    :_|

    Abstract

    I have no idea. That's all I can say.

    Jedi-ES

    Lovely points :)
     
  7. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Yes.. Padme is the "earth" mother.. she will give him stabilty, and security... and ultimately her demise will be his undoing...
     
  8. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    This is an interesting quote from Joseph Campbell from "The Hero with a Thousand Faces." I think it best explains Anakins problems dealing with his humanity:

    Nevertheless, every failure to cope with a life situation must be laid, in the end, to a restriction of consciousness. Wars and temper tantrums are the makeshifts of ignorance; regrets are illuminations come too late. The whole sense of the ubiquitous myth of the hero's passage is that it shall serve as a general pattern for men and women, wherever they may stand along the scale....The individual has only to discover his own position with reference to this general human formula, and let it then assist him past his restricting walls. Who and where are his ogres? Those are the reflections of the unsolved enigmas of his own humanity. What are his ideals? Those are the symptoms of his grasp of life.
     
  9. jedi-ES

    jedi-ES Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    PLJ,

    I think the middle/end of that last quote is the key.

    "The individual has only to discover his own position with reference to this general human formula, and let it then assist him past his restricting walls. Who and where are his ogres?"

    That's Anakin's problem in a nutshell: he doesn't recognize the parts of his personality or his character that could lead him to the dark side.

    He is unable to "recognize his ogres."

    I am not saying that he thinks that he is perfect. I think that he knows that he has "issues" and I know that he recognizes his daily pain. But it stays in a relatively obscure form, nothing concrete or clear, which leads him to succomb to those negative pressures in certain situations.

    I would be interested to see what Campbell thought of the role of the female in helping the hero to recognize his ogres. Is there any, or is that strictly for the hero to find for himself?

    Like for instance, if Padme was with him when he found his mother and she died in his arms, would he have gone Vader on the tribe or would she have been able to guide him away from those "negative pressures"?


    NEW EDITS READ ABOVE
     
  10. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    JC usually didn't think much of women beyond that they were either the seductresses or mothers. He spends very little time focusing on them.

    I guess that's what's so wonderful about Lucas. JC's works could give you the perfect blueprint for writing a myth based on myths of the past. GL though took those ideas and incorporated amazingly strong willed, independent women characters in his stories. I think he grew up in a household of women - lots of sisters- so that might explain quite a bit.
     
  11. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    I want to add this link to the "thinkers" thread:

    http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8657361&page=2

    "Subject: Would a dark, yet sensual moment between Ani and Padme, after he turns to evil, be prudent?"

    Try it....
     
  12. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Subject: Would a dark, yet sensual moment between Ani and Padme, after he turns to evil, be prudent?

    I don't think so, because while she was supportive and sympathetic to him for killing the Tuskin camp...the look of horror on her face while he told what he done, makes me thing that she will be unable to accept what he has become. It wasn't until his guilt over what he done drove him to tears, that Padme could bring herself to come near him. If he snaps, and joins Palpatine and the dark side...she would not be able to stand (much less share a sensual moment) what he's become.

    If you think of Padme as this Queen Goddess of the World, then she would lose all credibility as the noble queen/senator GL has written her...if she were to stay with dark side Anakin. THe reason the twins go into hiding is because Padme will not allow them to be used by Palpatine and Vader. Her last act as Queen Goddess of the World...give the galaxy A New Hope...in Luke and Leia!
     
  13. lori71

    lori71 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    What many of us were talking about on the "Sensual" thread was more about Anakin using his dark powers on Padme, a helpless victim.

    We were thinking along the lines of a "Phantom of the Opera" feeling. Where Anakin would attempt to coerce Padme into some action against her will, but will be doing it because of his desperation for love. Rather than rehash it here, I'll give you the link to it: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8657361&replies=97

    I, for one, had a lot of fun with the idea, but I'll let you decide for yourself.

    Good night.

    Lori
     
  14. Arriss

    Arriss Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2002
    PLJ - You rock, as usual!!

    EDIT: I, for one, love how GL makes the women in SW strong and independent! So many movies make women out to be the helpless damsel in distress when we can and are very strong individuals. Hmmm, despite what they think I wonder where man would be w/o woman.....
     
  15. The_Abstract

    The_Abstract Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2002
    I could tell you Arriss.

    The 21st century male enjoys a ritual wherein they sit down in their parents basement, where all is dark and cool, and participate in a world called "Nintendo". It's quite simple really. Instead of participating in physical activities such as Football or Hockey in the "Real World", males prefer to play computer simulations of these games using a handheld controller.

    Thus, the participants can have more control over that world and become skilled while reclining in their Lay-Z-Boy recliners and munching on cold pizza and domestic ales.

    There are even games where males can participate in "hero's quests" without having to leave the comfort of their air-conditioned poorly-lit dungeon. Thus the male can feel a false sense of pride for being so sucessful in the Nintendo World, and they never have to encounter they problems in the Real World.

    Unfortunately, the Nintendo World does not include many females so when males journey in the Real World they are cautious and frightened when they meet these strange and beautiful creatures. Maybe someday our experience in the Nintendo world will allow us to understand the mystery that is Woman, but for now, that part of life is incomprehendable.


    :D
     
  16. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    HOOOOWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLS with Laughter!!!

    I have had two Nintendo world Roomies... One has move his Nit-tendo on to greener pastures, the other actually works there...


    Scary stuff...

    (Oh, niether have ANY intrest in women...)


    LOLOLOLOL
     
  17. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    That's pretty sad DB, I have to say. Really sad.

    ***This is my 2000th post everyone!****

    Proof positive. I am deranged. Send in those men w/ the white jackets!

    BTW if anyone cares- new chapter (a really good one I may add) posted in my story! :p (I have no shame when it comes to plugging my fanfic!)
     
  18. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    The men in the white coats are very busy these days...

    ;)


    As for the roomies.. well.. I ShOULD have added that the were both touched by the lavender so women NEVER held an intrest for them anyways ;)


    I don't know about FF readers these days PLJ... I've even offered Qui-gon brownies to limited sucesses...

    :(


    (Notice the new sig... ;) )
     
  19. The_Abstract

    The_Abstract Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Congratulations PLJ!


    Looks like I'm only 1500 behind.

    Time to forget about that whole sleep thing.

    Man, and I thought I was a big Star Wars geek! ;)


    [face_love]

     
  20. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    AAhhhhhh..... and they still like Nintendo???

    Abstract

    I think I am the Queen SW Geek around here. Yes I wear the crown proudly. Well, at home I do at least. Don't need them to think I need to go off on a mental break at work :p

    Besides - you tend to go for quality as opposed to quantity w/ your posts. Ok I'm just a blabber mouth :p

    (post 2002- year of AOTC!)
     
  21. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    ;)


    I think one of them has a thing for Mario myself....


    LOLOLOLOL

    (Maybe that belongs in the LS thread??)

    :p
     
  22. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    Don't ask me what this has to do with anything- I just really like this photo- he looks rather Maul and brooding in that photo- doesn't he? :_| Foreshadowing:

  23. [image=http://www.thenextamidala.com/aotc_MixPIX/new_promo_August/ep2-stud-christensen-7-1024.jpg]
  24.  
  25. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    PLJ, I might just have to offer that as my read me bribe....


    *DB scrapes toung off of th efloor even tho' we have it in the MR photos*
     
  26. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    hee hee! I live to leave people speechless!
     
  27. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Well this is another great thread.
    Great stuff people, you certainly seem to find these things alot easier than I do.
    Particularly PLJ, how many threads have yo posted such excellent stuff in now? Amazing.

    Really good stuff people :)
     
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