Sympathy for the bad guys?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Latorski, May 28, 2005.

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  1. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    In ROTS, the prequel "bad guys" get theirs. Seriously, they have no idea what's about to come down on them, and I can't help but feel a little sorry for them.

    Anakin obliterates Dooku and then kills him as he kneels defenseless.

    He later officially ends the Clone Wars by slaughtering the separatists. (After all he'd put Padme through, I'm sure Anakin would've wanted a piece of Nute Gunray almost as much as he wanted Dooku, but that was sick.) It's quite a horrific display as Vader calmly shuts all the doors and goes to work. His silence (unlike the OT where he seems to enjoy taunting his victims) makes it seem all the more ruthless to me.

    Anyone else feel a little sympathy for them?
  2. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    I do, in the sense that all of them are little more than pawns in Palpatine's grand scheme. The Neimoidians and the rest of the Separatists, just like Dooku, were ultimately betrayed by Palpatine. They were promised peace now that the war was over, but now Palpatine's plans had come to fruition, he deemed them useless as galactic dust, why keep them alive? I don't think the Separatists are entirely bad, they were simply blackmailed and bribed to do the bidding of the Sith while being completely blind to the Chancellor/Emperor's true motives.

    I, however, feel a lot less sympathy for Dooku. He turned evil on his own volition, he knew what he was getting himself into. We all saw his ultimate plan in AotC - recruit Obi-Wan and overthrow Sidious. His own greedy and cynical ways brought him only destruction, not power which he so lusted.

    Of all the villains, by far I have the most sympathy for Anakin. He really wanted to do what's right - his initial refusal to kill Dooku, trying to convince Mace to take Palpatine to trial instead of killing him, pleading that it's not the Jedi way, and doing whatever it takes to keep Padme from dying. He, just like eveyrone else in the galaxy, was just another piece on Palpatine's chess board, being lied to and bribed. Had he known Palpatine's true motives (he wasn't going to let Padme live anyway, face it) he would have attempted to kill Palpatine in the office - he already killed 1 wicked old man, why not make it two? He is deeply conflicted and his downfall is almost painful to watch.
  3. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I've always felt badly for Dooku and the Nemodians. However, I don't consider them the bad guys at all.

    The evil of the prequels are Darth Sidious (most importantly) and to a lesser extent, Maul and Vader.

    Everyone else is just a pawn (that includes Maul and Vader.)

    The Nemodians are greedy, lusting for power and money. They aren't all that evil. They seek revenge at times, but for the most part they are just scared and hungry for more wealth.

    Count Dooku has been lied to and manipulated (much like Anakin.) He has no idea that Sidious will betray them. In a naive way, he believes that once the New Order is established, he can reform the Jedi into a new Sith Order.

    Dooku and Nute Gunray are evil in some ways, mostly though they are just mistaken and manipulated.

    -Seldon
  4. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    Of all the villains, by far I have the most sympathy for Anakin.

    Me too, for the reasons you've said. It's interesting because some of his crimes should be unforgiveable (the younglings) but by understanding his rationale- saving Padme's life, using the dark side to overthrow Sidious and eventually "make things right"- I do find him sympathetic.

    The Nemodians are greedy, lusting for power and money. They aren't all that evil. They seek revenge at times, but for the most part they are just scared and hungry for more wealth.

    Yeah, they don't seem pure evil and I always thought their greed and cowardice were slightly comical. Very early in TPM. they seemed terrified of Darth Sidious and Maul, who were the real villains.

    Count Dooku has been lied to and manipulated (much like Anakin.) He has no idea that Sidious will betray them. In a naive way, he believes that once the New Order is established, he can reform the Jedi into a new Sith Order.

    Very true. Like Dooku before him, Anakin has plans for taking over and reorganizing things. If he hadn't been injured, maybe he would have.
  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Aside from his motives, we have no reason to feel sympathy for Anakin after he has helped wipe out the Jedi(I'm talking ROTS only, not OT). Even though we understand why he does what he does, we can't forgive what he does, because clearly, he knows exactly what he's doing - ending countless lives to save one person.
    As Padmé so eloquently put it, love has blinded him. Not so that he can't see what he's doing, but so that he doesn't understand how the things he does affect those around him.
    I might've done the same thing in his situation. Especially after having helped Palpatine kill a Jedi Master. There would be no going back to the Jedi after that, so I would do what I came there to do - swear allegiance to the Sith in order to save Padmé. I would not expect you to feel sympathy for me, though, even though you would probably understand why I made that choice.

    I totally agree about feeling sympathy for the Separatists, though. They were fooled by Sidious into believing that they would get peace. What do they get for that? A swift execution.
    Truly, there are heroes on both sides and evil is everywhere.



    ROTS is a masterpiece
    /LM
  6. beedubew Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 2
    I don't feel any less sympathy for Dooku than I do for Vader. Both were manipulated, but both made the choice to go down the dark path. Saying Anakin is more forgivable than Dooku because he lusted for power to save Padme's life doesn't justify Anakin's actions anymore than Dooku's. Anakin is acting selfishly in choosing to betray the Jedi (and the galaxy) to save Padme. I am not saying that I don't understand why he did it. I am only saying that Anakin's actions, while understandable, weren't more right than Dooku's. In the words of Obi-wan in AOTC, "what do you think Padme would do were she in your position?" Look how crushed Padme was when she heard all that Anakin had done "for her".

    And Jedi_Greg_Maddux, Anakin wasn't pleading with Mace for the sake of the Jedi Code, he was doing it for purely personal reasons. He knew Palpatine was dangerous and powerful, but as Palpatine's voice says in Anakin's head (while in the Jedi Council room), if they kill me, you lose any hope of saving Padme. To add insult to injury, Anakin had executed a Sith only a short time before and now he is hypocritically and self righteously lcturing Mace? Please. I just wanted to say I think Anakin's actions in that scene were for negative reasons much more so than positive.

    That said, I do have a certain level of sympathy for every bad guy in the movie except Sidious. As Seldon pointed out, he is the true villain in this story.

    EDIT: clarity
  7. CoolHanLuke Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2004
    star 2
    Yeah, I feel sorry for Anakin because Palpatine played him like a fiddle for his own selfish purposes. As some of you pointed out, Anakin's choice to pledge his allegience to the Sith (in order to save his wife) does not make his actions right.

    Had Anakin listened to Yoda, "...teach yourself to let go of everything you stand to lose." and Mace,"...wait in the Jedi Council room until we return," he would have saved himself a lot of agony. I mean, we wouldn't have the rest of the story as we know it, but, Anakin probably wouldn't have ended up in the "Vader" suit.

    It's saddening to watch how someone goes "wrong." Hopefully, I can learn a lesson from it.
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