Tahl and TPM (possible JA#15 spoilers)

Though I've known for ages that Tahl dies in JA#15, I've only just had the chance to read it. I realise that puts me a little behind the times - what with JA#16 now available - but I also just re-watched TPM for about the gazillionth time and, in light of Tahl's death, the following scene (which I've taken from the TPM novelization) now holds much more emotional resonance than it used to:

Anakin's young face lifted to the older man's, and his voice was hesitant. "I...I was wondering something."
Qui-Gon nodded for him to continue.
The boy cleared his throat, screwing up his courage. "You're a Jedi Knight, aren't you?"
There was a long moment of silence as the man and the boy stared at each other. "What makes you think that?" Qui-Gon asked finally.
Anakin swallowed. "I saw your lightsaber. One Jedi Knights carry that kind of weapon."
Qui-Gon continued to stare at him, then leaned back slowly in his chair and smiled. "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and stole it from him."
Anakin shook his head quickly. "I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi."
Qui-Gon's smile faded and there was a hint of sdaness in his dark eyes. "I wish that were so..."

Is there anyone else who's watched this scene and thought the same thing as me?

Qui-Gon is thinking of Tahl when he says that last line.

 

That's a very observant observation.

I think that would fit in perfectly. Emotions carry on over the years; believe me, I know. Qui-Gon wouldn't forget about Tahl so quickly, so your theory can fit.

 

what are you talking about? it sounds sad, let me hear [read] the whole Tahl thing.

 

It's creative, I'll give you that, but that line was written long before JA #15.

I think that line was actually foreshadowing to Qui-Gon's eventual death, and not reminiscent of anything. Although, now, we may as well believe that it was in memory of Tahl's death

 

Hey, I haven't read any past #8, so I get the Behind the Times crown.

 

That is very true.
Altough when I first watched it I just took as he was thinking of former jedi knights that had died in service, yes Tahl, but not her specfically...

 

Good point. Sure it was written after the movie, but George reinterprets the stories all the time. I like the idea that he was thinking of Tahl.

 

I'd like to think that he was thinking of Tahl as well.

 

I was just thinking the same thing! I'm sure in the context of the movie itself, he was remembering friends and all the Jedi who gave their lives for noble causes and such. But I think adding Tahl to it certainly makes sense and makes the line so much more emotional.

In fact, I have found that reading the JA books has added more feeling to TPM. Sure, they're all written after the movie came out, but I find that it (atleast for me) fills in a lot of gaps that I felt TPM had.

 

It makes a lot of sense. I gives that line more meaning than just a simple foreshadowing. Tahl would be the first Fallen Jedi to come to his mind. Poor Quigon.

 

Yeah, what Faith said. Weird, but I was more thinking that Qui may have had that *feeling* that he maybe... you get it. That is want I thought. But now that you said that about Tahl, it is a good point. When I read JA 15 at the end when Tahl said, "Wherever I am headed I will wait for you." Boy, that just reminded me of Qui's death.

On a sadder note when I read parts of JA 16 *will not say* I just thought of Qui's death and why he is so willing to defy the Conucil.

Also, I think I read some where that JW is trying to do the JA books toward TPM. So that what is going on in the books may make sense with Qui and Obi in TPM. But if you ask me, unless Qui gets the *awaking* from the Living Force, the JA Qui does not match with TPM Qui.

Also Anakin probbly is born by now in JA timeline. I mean Obi is 16 and there is about 16 years age difference bewteen Obi and Ani.

I'm going, I'm going.

 

Yep, Anakin was born 41 years BBY, the same year the latest JA books take place in.

Oh, JA fans (but not comic readers)..the latest SW ongoing comic Stark Hyperspace Wars has a 13 year old Obi-Wan in it, set between books 8 and 9.

 

So that's a book or a comic? I don't think I have ever heard of it, where can I get a copy?

 

It's a 4 issue comic series that started today (issues 36 - 39 of the ongoing series). It's a flashback story.

 

I always took Qui-Gon's line in TPM as a mixture of foreshading AND of thoughts of friends he has lost. In light of Tahl's death, we know at least one Jedi he was certainly thinking of.

I got the Stark Hyperspace War comic today. Nice treat to see Obi-Wan. To think I thought of not continuing to buy the ongoing and wait for the trade paperbacks. Well, it looks like I'll still be buying for at least this story arc.

~*~Bria

 

Does obi look like what you would expect him to look like in the JA series?

 

Well, the art's a little iffy. He's short though.

 

I personally think that since #8, JW's characterization of Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan is moving farther away from their portrayal in TPM. This latest story arc is just stupid! Jude's watching too many soap operas for plot ideas. I'm not going to bother with her new series, if this is the type of stuff she's going to churn out.

As to Tahl, she had no real depth and was such an unappealing character, I'm afraid I'm kind of glad she's gone. She is proud and selfish, two fatal traits in a Jedi Knight, and I found her terribly hypocritical.

As to TPM, I always assumed he was thinking of all his friends & mentors killed in the line of duty when he was saying that.

 

She is proud and selfish, two fatal traits in a Jedi Knight, and I found her terribly hypocritical.

I take you are meaning when she goes on missions by herself and leaves Bant? If you mean that I agree. Tahl seemed better in JA 5 and 6 then she did in 14 and 15.

As I said before, I thought of Qui maybe having a feeling of his own death. Is that possilbe?

 

I guess it is possible, but it didn't seem to me he was thinking of himself at that moment...

As for the latest arc, I liked it. I find the notion that Jedi are not to love ridiculous. Obviously they serve the Force, but if there is love between two people, isn't it wrong to deny it? If the Force brings two ppl together, I personally think they should be together.

 

I liked the latest story arc, and I actually think that Jude Watson is doing a good job with the characterizations. There are things in TPM that, to me, make Watson's portrayal of Qui-Gon seem quite accurate.

As for Obi-Wan, if anything, Obi is a much nicer person and has more compassion in the JA books. I found him totally annoying in TPM at times; for most of the movie, we only see his arrogance and negativity. I personally like the JA character more than that which the movie showed.

And, I don't see it, but I want to know... How is Tahl hypocritical?

 

I would have to agree. Looking at the entire SW saga from beginning to end including EU with the movies you can see more in the movies by what has happened in the books. Knowing that Tahl has died and Qui-Gon loved her makes his statement more meaningful EVEN if that is not the way it was intended. We know when he says that he must be feeling sorrow for fallen Jedi, but to be able to actually put a name and story to that sorrow makes that scene now even better than before. Remember, this is fantasy and we are using our imaginations to see the whole picture. So why not incorporate our imagination of EU into the movies themselves? We see in this account that the EU adds to the scene in TPM, what a plus for us!

 

Oh, the reason I found Tahl hypocritical was that in #7 & 8, she was going on at Qui-Gon over his relationship with Obi-Wan, how he needed to forgive & take him back; in flashbacks from this story arc she's telling him what he should do to deal w/Xanatos (keeping in mind, understand, that at this point she's never bothered to train a Padawan herself and has no experience with young people whatsoever, while he's trained THREE)...

but when Qui-Gon approaches her with his justifiable concerns over her neglect of Bant, he gets "Don't tell me what to do with my Padawan! It's none of your business!"

I'd say that's a 180 in attitude... it's okay for her to criticize, but not accept criticism? All part of her "I'm so hot, I don't need anyone" attitude. Extremely unattractive.

In the end, Tahl was her own worst enemy, and while it is a shame she died, she brought it on herself. Not just her selfishness in not involving Bant in her mission, but in not involving anyone else. Part of her "I'm so independent, I'm such hot stuff, out of my way!" thing. I mean, I would think that "knowing when you're in over your head" is one of those Jedi traits, and "teamwork" would be another, instead of "I don't need any help!"

Qui-Gon, you're better off without her. TRUST me. (Obi-Wan did come off pretty well in this, though he doesn't get a whole lot to do except run around wondering where Qui-Gon is and worrying...)

Why is it that EU authors think that "strong female characters" mean snide and nasty? Why do female fans welcome this?

 

Oh... I never saw that as hypocrisy. I don't know... I always felt bad for Tahl, because of her blindness. I took her hostile attitude as a sign of her underlying struggle with her predicament.

She's frustrated that she can't do everything she used to do, and I saw that as why she has that attitude of hers and why she's so different between JA8 and Deceptions. It's like, the more years that go by, the more reality sinks in that the disability does get in the way of things, and the more she wants to prove to everyone and to herself that she is still capable of going solo. That's how I viewed her character, so that's why I didn't really have a problem with it...

Why is it that EU authors think that "strong female characters" mean snide and nasty? Why do female fans welcome this?

I do wonder about this as well. Not with Tahl though, because I had sympathy for her and I thought that her bad attitude was justified. I don't like the portrayal of Siri's character, though. She is truly snide and nasty...

 

Mmm, reread the flashbacks. Tahl appears to have been a nagging know-it-all from the beginning. I still can't get over her "this is what you should do with your apprentice, but don't you dare tell ME what to do with mine!" attitude. Blindness is no excuse for bi-- um, nastiness. There was nothing LIKEABLE about her, much less LOVEABLE, and I'm sorry she turned out to be just another Mara Sue. But I gues the green/gold striped eyes should've been a giveaway.

As to Siri, I have to agree. Knowing Jude, we'll probably find out that Obi-Wan's had a crush on her all along, and he'll declare himself only to have her die in his arms, so he vows revenge, to Anakin's horror... honestly, the woman's been watching too many soap operas.