Taoism and disappearing Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Mex, Dec 20, 2000.

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  1. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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    Did you ever find that author?
  2. DarthRacer Jedi Youngling

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    As far as describing "Jedi" or the "Force", George combines both Eastern & Western philosophies...he's said so in interviews. He likes to mix different worldviews, shake well, then spit out a composite system.

    I've posted that thread on a another board, but, basically, you can take from Star Wars what you want. Buddists see "Buddism", Hindus see "Hinduism", and Christians see "Christianity". George wants it that way...he doesn't put all his philosophies into "one basket".
  3. Force of Nature Jedi Knight

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    Wylding, might this be the book Merkurian was talking about: The Holographic Universe; Michael Talbot (1991) New York: HarperCollins?
  4. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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    DR, that should be no surprise, as many truths are not limited to one perspective, creed, or bias...

    Thanks, Force of Nature! I'll check it out.

    And as far as the body being a microcosm for the universe, yes my intuition tells me that it is possible. However, I have no knowledge of it, yet.
  5. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Yeah, thanks FoN. I'd spaced off about that.

    The premise of the book compares the universe to a piece of holgraphic film. If a piece of film containing an image is cut into smaller pieces, each piece somehow still contains the entire image. So too it is with the universe.

    The book uses that theory to explain things like telekinesis, faith healing, prophecy, stigmata, telepathy, feats of super-strength, pretty much any "paranormal" thing you can think of.

    Man, I'll have to re-read that book!
  6. Mex Jedi Knight

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    Dec 20, 2000
    Just picked up another book that might be interesting for you all: "The Magus of Java : Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal" by Kosta Danaos. It's the story of the javanese taoist John Chang, "the first man to be documented performing pyrokinesis, telekinesis, levitation,telepathy, and other paranormal abilities" (editorial). John Chang is also featured in the 1988 BBC documentary "Ring of Fire", available on video cassette.

    From a Review from http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/kouvakas/WEN/about.htm :

    "In this book, Kosta Danaos, president of the Wenwukuan, takes a first step
    towards revealing a suprising aspect of eastern philosophy and
    esoteric discipline reminiscent of George Lucas's Jedi Knights. "

    Ha! So much for StarWars being a fantasy film about "a galaxy far, far away". There are Jedi Knights here on this Earth, you just have to travel to Indonesia! :))
  7. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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  8. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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  9. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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  10. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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    Hey Mex,

    Since you are our resident expert on Taoism, I was wondering what the Taoist perspective would be on Zen Buddhism or Buddhism in general.
  11. Mex Jedi Knight

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    Dec 20, 2000
    Hi Wylding!

    "Expert on taoism"? By no means, it's Nhik who's been a Taoist for half of his life, I've only just begun to explore this path :).

    Seriously, I'm in no way qualified to comment on this, all I can do is throw in some speculations that hopefully won't offend anyone. As mentioned before, some masters say that the Tao is beyond any specific religion/philosophy, therefore Taoist practices should be compatible with a multitude of religious beliefs.

    However I believe that many Taoists view Taoist practices as a more direct approach than certain Zen oder other Buddhist practices. This is based on the belief that the ultimate goal of spiritual practice is to connect and become one with the Force, the original source of all energy processes. As I understand it, Taoism is much more centered on the notion of energy than is Buddhism. Accordingly, Taoist practices attempt to directly connect with the Force (via influencing energy circulation in the body), whereas in Zen and other buddhist disciplines the connection is established in a more indirect manner (counting breath, solving koans, reciting mantras etc etc). However I've been told that in Tibetian Buddhism at higher levels energy practices also play a significant role. The Buddhist approach has been criticised by Taoists for being to "yin", i.e. focussing too much on surrender and giving up the ego before people have built enough energy so they can afford to share love and compassion for the benefit of others. Buddhism has also been criticised for teaching people only how to receive cosmic energy but not how to store it. There is thus the danger that people come to depend on spiritual teachers in order to be able to establish a connection with the Force. Instead, it is believed that the task of a spiritual teacher should be to enable people to stand on their on feet and not to depend on others.

    Again, these are just my interpretations, which may be totally off the mark.

  12. TEROSWARRIOR Jedi Knight

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    Mar 17, 2001
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    Fellow Emanations of the One! I love this thread. And much thanks to Wylding for pointing it out to me.

    I prepared the following as a response to another thread, and I think it fits with the topics under discussion, though not totally in the flow. I hope you don't mind. I hope it opens up some more areas for discussion, and that this thread continues for a long, long time.


    WHAT IS EVIL- besides being LIVE spelled backwards?
    [This ?coincidence? has got to be more than a quirky random act of chance found in the English language.]

    EVIL vs LIVE: indicating the opposing forces of life and living versus- DEATH, which isn?t too far from DARTH, I might add. :) The Eternal Battle of the opposing forces does not mean that one side is up and the other down at any given time. It is, for the Champions of the Force, rather the continual creating balance and harmony on a continually upward moving spiral in culture and society.

    I suggest for perusal a classic book, Initiation by Elisabeth Haich, which provides some rare understanding of the issues under discussion, specifically on the question of what is good and what is evil. As she tells us of her experiences in being trained in the inner processes of life are given the task of mastering opposites. Thus, they must resolve and balance qualities like caution and courage, humility and boldness, compassion and the sternness of the mathematical precision Law of life, mercy and justice.

    They are instructed that when these qualities become imbalanced or inappropriately used, that is precisely when evil or the destructive force is activated. Is this not the core issue?- the so called Dark Side is not the true polar opposite of the Light Side, but rather the product of the failings and the lack of mastery in the balancing of the forces of polarity in creative cycles? If feel that this provides a powerfully useful perspective on these questions, perhaps helping to slice the Gourdian [sp?] knots, the endless circle these type of discussion go into.

    I doubt we will find the deepest answers to the Force questions within Lucas work. for although he did a remarkable amount of research into these matters and compiled them into an excellently simple format, I believe he lacked some pieces himself.



    The Crownless again shall be King



  13. TEROSWARRIOR Jedi Knight

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    The God-Force- Another Perspective

    Another source contends thus:

    There is only one Great First Cause and Force- spirit, the only God there is. Individualizations of that Force evolve to a degree of self-awareness in their growing traits and powers. But herein is the mystery:

    To arrive at its goodness, it must contact badness, for every positive, it must know a negative. Therefore all experiences come to it both constructive and destructive. Thus evil serves a purpose in demarking the constructive. ***Evil is the God-Force losing its awareness. Good is the God-Force gaining in cognition of that which it comprises.***

    Note however that ?contacting a badness? does not mean it affiliates or identifies with the badness, but rather in a sense ?fights it? by assertin balance and transcendence of the former state.

    What then does it really mean to ?fight evil?? I suggest it is to [in no particular order]

    1] create a culture of beauty and perfection and training all people in its reverence and perception

    2] powerfully assert a vision of the future in which the individual units of God-Force [souls/people] can better grow into greater awareness of the grand potential within them.

    3] educate all individualizations about their potential.


    I find certain lacks in the Eastern/Daoist philosophy, mainly in the area of the lack of pro-active positive thrusting for a purpose.

    The Avatars have never been passive creatures-
    witness Jesus challenging the false teachers and pharissees to their face, witness him teaching people assertively

    Krishna made war upon the demons an evil forces, and taught Arjuna the mandate of fighting for the Right.

    Lord Buddha was far more active on planes of thought than could be perceived by those who saw him apprently in 'quiet meditation.'




    ON THE JUDAEO/CHRISTIAN GOOD EVIL CONCEPTS

    I find that the people who resent the Judeo-Christian concepts of good vs evil miss a vital point. Although often understood, and often abused, the core information they provide is crucial and useful -

    1] that their are angels who fell into evil ways [?one third of heaven?] who ?make war with the Woman who would bring forth the manchild]- that woman being the feminine/mothering principle within all of us

    2]the understanding that there are conscious individualizations who choose the Evil use of the God-Force to bring suffering to other parts of life, is of great value. The ying/yang I contend has been in some ways misinterpreted. There is no necessity for evil in the sense of imbalance of forces, the destruction of beauty. The cycles of life are not intended to always return to the same place but rather to always transcend themselves.

    The Christ figure in the Bible, I contend, is intended to show to us the ultimate pattern of the masterful man and woman can follow- our example. Thus when he declares ?I am come to destroy the works of the devil? [d-evil being an individual who chooses to D-eify EVIL] this can be taken as our example for dynamic constructive action, not falling into the idea that somehow evil with all its pain and suffering, boredom and ugliness must be passively accepted, for there is little we can do about it, for it is always there along with good.

    Basically, I humbly suggest the eternal battle is one of awareness evolving to grand beauty and perfection versus stagnation and degeneration. Man is evolving. We are at a crucial point in evolution where great good from the past has returned. Breakthroughs in pollutionless technology, healing and health, magnificent forms of physical exercise, the knowledge of how to develop the Jedi powers such as telepathy, teleportation, emotional healing and mastery, the absorbing and application of the untapped powers of life-energy, breakthroughs in soul-psychology, in education that trains people in how to think, sense and be aware of higher adn deeper things, in understanding of the inner worlds through the documentation of thousands of peoples near-death-experiences- these and much more is becoming available.
  14. TEROSWARRIOR Jedi Knight

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    Wylding, looking at the posts from a ways back, I noted you took issue with the statement that Jesus [known as the Buddha Issa} in Tibet, traveled to the East.

    The years were actually from the age of 12 to 29 when he travelled the caravan routes to Persia, India and Tibet, studied the religions there and challenged the false leaders, even as he did later in Jerusalem.

    This story is based on texts found in Tibetan monestaries and shown to twentieth century travellers, including Supreme COurt Justice Douglas, Nicholas Roerich, Swami Abhedananda and Nicholas Notovich,
    This is best documented in E. C. Prophet's
    Lost Years of Jesus book.

    If you read Elain Pagels The Gnostic Gospels, you will find thta the suppressed teachings of the early Christian Mystics, known as gnostics, are often very buddhistic.

    Illuvatar



  15. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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    TEROSWARRIOR,

    I have read many of the Gnostic gospels and studied their backgrounds. I agree that they are very Buddhistic in their teachings, but I still take issue with this new teaching that Christ went to the far east to study...I will check into the reference you recommend and then I will post back with my thoughts. That is as honest an answer as I can give you.

    Edit: I read the readers comments at amazom.com. Is it true Teros that these new revelations were from spirits? If so, I ask you, what is there to measure these spirits credability? What is there to assure me that these are not the testimony of fallen angels seeking to hide and confuse the truth? Is there archaelogical evidence to support their claims?

  16. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Interesting turn of topic, I must say...
  17. TEROSWARRIOR Jedi Knight

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    RE: LOST YEARS OF JESUS

    No, these are NOT some channelled stuff. It is all physically documented, the cases of serious spiritual individuals stating that Tibetan monks showed them books saying "These texts say that your Jesus was here."


    TEXTS ON FALLEN ANGELS

    The Forbidden Mysteries of Enoch, also by is another goldmine of non-channelled, histrical texts, concerning certain angels and sons of God who were cast out of heaven into the physical realm. Endowned with greta magnetism and intelligence from their thousands of years of service in higher realms, they easily intimidate the children of the light. That is, until the coming of the Elect One an his saints who bring the judgment an end of cycles of these fallen ones- Nephilim- to repent and turn back to Love.

    Illuvatar


  18. TEROSWARRIOR Jedi Knight

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    Arise to the summit of being.
  19. Darth Dane Jedi Master

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    I've read "A yogi's autobiography" by Yogananda, which I recommend you read. Concerning the dissapearing Jedi, Vader/anakin, could easily be one with the force, without the body disappearing. If he chose not to have the "shell" with him, into the next life.
    In the book, Yogananda refers to a scene where a master dies in front of several hundreds viewers, without taking the body with him, while at the same time appearing in three distincly different places.

    It's just a thought that the jedi body doesn't nessesary (sp?) need to disappear, with the passing on.

    Also another great book, that refers in places to this is "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsch.

    Just my little input here.

    Proceed in love :)
  20. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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    In response to TEROSWARRIOR,

    I fear that you have been decieved. EC Prophet is not what she claims to be and I will prove it here. Also, in the final link Sarah Lang states that EC Prophets revelations, while not stated as channeled, are given to her in a similar manner by the ascended masters.

    First off she is an established member of the New Age Movement. Proof:

    http://www.ecprophet.net/whoisecp.html

    http://www.tsl.org/church/messengers/ecp.html

    She also believed that Christ was an ascended master. Here's proof:

    http://www.tsl.org/teachings/masters/amasters.asp

    This contradicts Christ's own teachings. Christ *is* God...not a god. He stated so Himself in many places in the New Testament.

    I also found some letters she released that were quite revealing:

    http://www.mcn.net/~acflynn/ecp.html

    This however was probably one of the most disturbing revelations regarding Prophet and her organization. It is an essay by Sarah Lang a three year member of Prophet's cult:


    http://www.alphalink.com.au/~jdm/Essays/Cults.htm



    Edit: I read the first fifth of the essay...and the verse "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? -Matthew 7:15-17" popped into my head. I believe that was the Holy Spirit speaking to me.

    I do not intend this as a flame, but as information regarding the accuracy of your claims regarding Jesus' life during the years in question.
  21. JediDavex Jedi Master

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  22. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Holy crap, Wylding!!! That's some scary stuff!
  23. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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    JD & JM,

    I try my best to do my homework and investigate the validity of strange sounding claims. In this case it revealed some truly scary stuff.

    EC Prophet's organization is in fact a very insidious cult. This throws all of her writings into serious question. Also the fact that there is no hard proof, no archaelogical evidence, of what TEROSWARRIOR is claiming.
  24. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Well, let us hope that your vigillance will be appreciated & your findings accepted.
  25. TEROSWARRIOR Jedi Knight

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    Gentlemen, gentlemen, let us not get distracted into a question of a controversial leader.

    My posts are not intended to draw anyone to this problematic figure, it just happens to be that if you look in this field, The Lost Years of Jesus happens to be the best source of info on this suppressed subject, which in this case is simply a compilation of others peoples encounters with these Tibetan texts.
    There is another book called "Jesus Lived in India" which is totally from another source, a guy in Germany. It details all the evidence that Jesus spent time AFTER the Roman torture in India teaching. The book will blow your mind.

    WHen I was in a copy mart one time, copying a map of Jesus travels to the East, the Arabs who ran the store excitedly looked at it and were very happy to find someone in the West who knew about Jesus going there.

    I was hoping for more discussion of the ideas brought up. Anyone?

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