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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series Tarkin

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Jedi Knight Fett, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. outerrimjaba

    outerrimjaba Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    May 24, 2015

    Very true, it was a quid pro quo setup. Tarkin had stalled investigations regarding the trade federation,orchestrated the transfer of the military from under the Jedi (as seen in Clone Wars). Anyways, he did way more than just bark out orders. According to canon, he was an architect of the New Order with big contributions in the realms of weapons design and construction, political and military organization, scientific advances and Imperial policy. His death along with the destruction of the "Sentinel Moon" really sent Papaltine's Empire into chaos. Given the book and the backstory of the formation of the Rebellion - my guess is that the new canon pre-ANH era will have Tarkin as a central figure until his demise at Yavin. Anthology movie, Rogue One, and Rebels, animated show, will reflect it. The arrogance and megalomania wasn't unwarranted...he had the mastery of a multitude of disciplines in his background, a reason to be fatally arrogant in his own capabilities.
     
  2. Darth Valkyrus

    Darth Valkyrus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Do you think Tarkin was more useful to Palpatine than Vader?
     
  3. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    In certain areas I am sure he probably was. Vader was/is meant to be quite popular with the military (as Anakin was of course) and probably serves as a good battlefield leader/inspiration type figure, but he doesn't seem the type to know or care very much about long term resourcing or construction projects or 'civilian' issues. Tarkin on the other hand doesn't really have a lot of military renown to his name but has a sharp mind and good political instincts and probably knows how to run operations that don't involve invading planets and crushing resistance. A good example is in Rebels where Tarkin first arrived to make things more efficient, got rid of the lacklustre leadership and got things in Lothal moving again. Once the Rebels scored a decisive military blow however, it's Vader who is sent to deal with it.

    They are a complimentary pair. Tarkin will organise and plan and motivate... Vader handles the hands-on fighting if needed.
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It's interesting now that those scenes have been novelized (Battle to the End), to see what characters like Kanan and Kallus were thinking during those scenes.

    In a blur of red, Aresko and Grint went silent and still in their chairs, never to move again.
    Minister Tua covered her mouth and gasped. Kallus, normally immune to such grisly sights, flinched. Aresko and Grint, though incompetent, had been loyal Imperials - a fact that didn't seem to matter at all to Grand Moff Tarkin.
    "Make no mistake." The Grand Moff glanced at both Tua and Kallus. "From now on, failure will have consequences."


    When the rockets began to hit the tower, Tarkin turned to Kanan. "You do not know what it takes to win a war. But I do."
    Kanan glared at Tarkin. The Inquisitor might emanate the dark side, but the Grand Moff was a man of colder, purer evil.
    Tarkin had to be stopped, at all costs, or the galaxy would suffer greatly.


    Kallas stood at attention when Tarkin arrived. One would have expected the Grand Moff to be shaken after losing both his flagship and a captive Jedi to the Rebels. Yet Tarkin appeared as composed as he had when he first landed on Lothal.
    This was a man who refused to admit error, Kallus realised.
    "We are getting reports of unrest all over Lothal," Kallus said. "There are whispers from Mustafar. Some people see the Empire as weak, vulnerable."
    Tartan's voice betrayed not a hint of concern. In fact, he smiled. "Not to worry, Agent Kallus. The Emperor has sent me an alternative solution."


    Kallus had seen the holonet reports and had heard stories from other officers. But this was the first time he'd seen Lord Darth Vader in the flesh - if there was indeed flesh under all that black armour.
    Any doubts Kallus had vanished. The Emperor had committed his greatest weapon to the fight.
    The rebels and their fledgling rebellion were doomed.
     
  5. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I agree. Tarkin also is able to work with fellow Imperial leaders more easily than Vader. I imagine Tarkin works best with the Imperial commanders and leaders, while Vader works best with the Imperial soldiers. But both kill their subordinates if they deem such action necessary.
     
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  6. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I agree with the first half but the second seems very unlikely with Wilhuff and no I don't need examples, thanks. I am allowed to disagree with presentation.
     
  7. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Aresko and Grint would no doubt be very relieved to hear that Tarkin is a more merciful type. Of course, you'd need a Ouija board to tell them so...
     
  8. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Yeah. I think I was making a generalization. Sorry about that.
     
  9. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I got ahead of myself. My bad. But as many of you know, I tend to have a bias toward the feminine and the gothic aspects of life. I tend to look at things through these lenses of femininity and darkness. In this case, I was looking at Tarkin as darkly as possible, and sorry about that. Tarkin may be cruel, but he's more human than people give him credit.

    Anyhow, I think I figured out why Vader takes orders from Tarkin in ANH. It's not just because he respects him. I think it's because Vader is Supreme Commander of the Imperial Fleet. As such, he outranks admirals, generals, and so on. He may not outrank grand moffs, like Tarkin, and grand admirals. Not sure. But at any rate, Vader and Tarkin had different skill sets, and that's useful in any hierarchy.
     
  10. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    Tarkin is cruel and sadistic as he's a sociopath and psychotic like the Emperor and Vader, and he should be as he's that sorta fictional villain. Even many of the evil figures throughout history had certain positive and admirable qualities, but it does not make then any less evil but it can make them likable to some people, its human nature. Vader operates both outside the Empire and within, he's got some odd position because's he's the Emperor's enforcer and this witch-like religious figure among the Imperial ranks, like a spook or bogeyman. Tarkin was 2nd to the Emperor and supreme military commander as it a kinda triumvirate scheme. The Emperor himself appears to be equally a spook and bogeyman and has retreated more and more from public life and probably very few are granted an audience with him. Grand Moff Jerjerrod was scarred to death of meeting the Emperor, and more scarred of the Emperor than Vader so that has to give a kinda inkling what some of these Imperials think of the Emperor and rumors that float around within it.
     
  11. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Tarkin isn't the "supreme military commander", he is Grand Moff and the governor of the entire Outer Rim. In the Tarkin novel he is neither beneath or above Vader, they share the spot at 2nd to the Emperor. I believe rebels will follow what Tarkin has established.
     
  12. outerrimjaba

    outerrimjaba Jedi Master star 1

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    May 24, 2015
    When I think of the Moff Sector Governance, I think of Hitler's Gaulitier divisions of occupied Europe. The Gau area military was under the Gaulitier's control and he was answerable only to the Fuhrer.

    Grand Moff Tarkin's over sector governance seemed outside of the outer rim. Any troubled sector would be under his command with a Death Star pulling out of hyper space. Alderaan was a core world, and he didn't bother with the local sector Moff with a massive military directive. I don't know if canon will have him going mother may I with the emperor, but it's possible at this point with senate dissolution, that paps is giving a free administrative hand with his triumvirate partners.
     
  13. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Tarkin was apparently also in command of the Death Star itself. Maybe that's why Vader was taking orders from him, it's his ship.

    Then again the Imperial command structure has always been rather confusing to me. And Vader's, ambiguous status within it only makes it more so.
     
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  14. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Vader's status is only ambiguous to those in universe in my opinion. We know Palps is a Sith lord and Vader is his apprentice, so he is #2 overall, except in cases like the first Death Star, where it was clear that Tarkin ran the show.
     
  15. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2003
    As far as villians overall, I rank Tarkin as 4th overall villian. It seems he will be what Dooku was in TCW and Vader will have the Grevious role. Im really looking forward to Tarkin and Bails relationship, to add some weight to the Alderaan destruction scene.
     
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  16. Kassius Konstantine

    Kassius Konstantine Jedi Master star 1

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    Mar 1, 2015
    I still wonder how that works out, though.
    Even when he was a Jedi, Anakin Skywalker placed great importance on rank and status (Jedi Master and Council...), and he advocated top-down hierarchies. Now that he is the second most powerful being in the Galaxy he favours flat hierarchies, working as equal with an upstart who has no force powers and no war honours, and primarily came to power because of his friendship with Palpatine? A powerful, status conscious warrior like Vader accepting him as equal... I know canon says so, but how is that possible?
     
  17. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    I guess it's because he greatly respects Tarkin and because the Emperor wishes it. I am sure that if the Emperor didn't wish it, they would have some competition about who can be in the lead.
     
  18. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2003
    Who says he had no war honors? He had a history of brave service in both the ORSF and the Judicial Forces prior to the war; he was decorated at Kamino; he helped secure an important intelligence asset with the Nexus Route; he led the clean up operations against the Separatists in the Western Reaches. The man's done things.
     
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  19. Kassius Konstantine

    Kassius Konstantine Jedi Master star 1

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    Mar 1, 2015
    ... in novels perhaps, desperately trying to make him look militarily competent when the TV shows (and ANH to some extend) do not support that. In TCW he shot an unarmed man who lay on the ground, dazzled after a crash, failed to kill him and was overwhelmed in combat by the wounded, only to be saved by the Padawan he had berated before and whose execution he demanded later. That is poor soldiering on every level and it is all we see of his military prowess in TCW (and the Clone Wars for that matter). You may say he shines elsewhere and that he has honours, but we do not see that. I found his characterization on screen is pretty consistent. He is not incompetent though, that was established by Rebels; still nothing of note or honour.

    If the novels present a different Tarkin, I will have to accept that as canon. ... for now. ;)
     
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  20. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    He's not a hands-on, lead from the front inspirational leader type. But he IS pretty effective at coming up with strategies and predicting the enemy. In the finale for example he very neatly outmanoeuvred the Ghost crew with his little gambit with the signal. Their whole plan involved stopping the signal... and he used that against them. If Chopper hadn't shown up with a spare fleet when he did, our heroes would have been goners. Even the loss of the Star Destroyer was down to entirely flukey chance that Inky managed to drop his lightsabers in EXACTLY the wrong place, otherwise the Storm Troopers probably would have captured the entire cell right then.

    He is very, very competent at what he does. But what he does just doesn't involve grabbing a blaster and getting stuck in. He's a thinker, not a fighter.
     
  21. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I think if we separate Cushing from Tarkin, the likability and fans of the character would drop significantly. Objectively speaking about the character, Tarkin remains a grossly mismeasured character, he comes more across as a pencil pusher and concentration camp commandant than any sorta Panzer General/ Field Marshall. He's quite far from a Napoleon, Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great. There is nothing in TCW/Rebels that shows him to be truly competent or this skilled combatant, he's just a megalomaniac that likes the sound of his own voice that orders - even in his appearances on TCW he's this urbane cold hearted prima donna that is just a silver spoon fed noble that was granted a military rank due to his status not merit. I think some people confuse Tarkin with Thrawn, or something.
     
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  22. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Not exactly... he's plenty smart in TCW. That whole thing was NEVER about Ahsoka actually being innocent or guilty, it was about discrediting the Jedi Order... which it did. His appearance on Rebels was directly linked to things taking a bad turn for our heroes, and I've already mentioned his signal ploy was genuinely inspired and only failed due to bad luck he could not possibly have accounted for. Tarkin's no military leader but there are other kinds of competence and he's got those in abundance. Organisation, efficiency, productivity... that's what he brings to the table. Plonk him on a battlefield and he's next to useless. Stick him in a bunker with a steady supply of intelligence and you'll find he turns things around pretty quickly. He uses extremely brutal tactics for sure and morally he's despicable. But it does work, if only because he dares to cross lines that others may not.

    He's not Julius Caesar. He's a Cesare Borgia.
     
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  23. Kassius Konstantine

    Kassius Konstantine Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2015
    I will agree that his planning in Rebels was competent (in fact, I defended that opinion earlier when others insisted that Tarkin was shown as incompetent in the show...).
    I will agree that Tarkin is politically cunning; we could see that in TCW.

    However is that enough to earn Vader's respect, so that he accepts Tarkin as his equal? Sure he likes Tarkin's ruthlessness, but Vader never struck me as someone who admires schemers and planners to such an extent. He may accept that such people are necessary, but again: as his equal?
    Rebels could be the opportunity to show why Vader has such a respect for Tarkin, because I certainly don't feel anything we saw on screen justifies the enormous amount of respect which is needed so that the second most powerful being in the galaxy (a Dark Lord of the Sith) accepts him as equal.
     
  24. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Tarkin main thing was being unscrupulous, overkill and strength in numbers, never tactics and he had no concept of gratitude and always underestimated his foes which was a flaw that did him all the time. He had a false sense of superiority. He was not smart on TCW, he tried passing himself off as smart not the same thing. He displayed hardly any skill during the escape from the prison. In fact Evan Piel did not trust him. In fact he both critical and overly skeptical about escaping as soon as his rescuers entered his cell. Even if he was working with the Separatists at the time, then he's just traitor and a Judas and he was overruled by the Jedi so had little to no effect as the Jedi led mission which was successful and his attempts to hinder the mission and his own plan even if honest, would not of worked. I rather suspect he gave up his half of the coordinates to the Sidious run Citadel whether out've fear of torture or cause he was in cahoots - Dooku even asks Sobeck if he got the information from the prisoner not prisoners, he was referring to Piel. Throughout the escape Tarkin tries demoralize his rescuers by claiming to admire the prison which is also a hint he wants to use such prisons in the future for his enemies. Then he starts playing games with Rex as he attempts to turn the Clone troopers against their commanding officer(Tano) which had no effect on Rex as he worked with her, respected her and had confidence her leadership and skills. He then works on Anakin and constantly complains and expresses more skepticism and cynicism. he was also not so bright and a coward during battle, Tarkin, "There could be a whole battalion of droids out there", Anakin, " better than hiding in a fuel line". Tarkin just ran and always hid behind cover, he never took up a blaster. He was also surprised that there was a plan B, after he expressed fright that his own life was too close to danger as they were cornered. Tarkin, "there is a plan B"? And he's just supposed to be this genius, and he was bewildered that there was a contingency plan, like no one ever has one, especially during combat operations or sports ect. They were about to get overrun at the end and his big plan he came up with was some suicidal Hitlerian full frontal assault into certain self destruction and to board a ship with little defensive armor and armament that was to somehow would be able to destroy all the army of droids not to mention the heavy defense turrets guarding the platform,lol.

    He's not Cesare Borgia either, but more like a Cobra Commander from Sunbow cartoons.
     
  25. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Well, there's things that Tarkin can do that Vader doesn't have the patience to. Handle mountains of paperwork. Dealing with squabbling politicians and dishonest businesspeople. Dealing with all the petty little problems that could delay the construction of the Death Star. Holding rousing speeches for your employees. Power-point presentations. Business meetings. Long and boring conferences.

    I just can't imagine Vader dealing with that kind of stuff, it would probably drive him nuts.
     
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