TV Discussion TCW - Harbinger of the "Great SW Fan Purge" ? [possible spoilers]

Hello everyone. First time poster.

This subject may be a bit premature, as the movie just came out today. But given the wide range of reviews out there, all the drama over at AICN, and many of the comments made here, it seems that a trend may be emerging.

Star Wars has already reached 3 generations or so of fans. But in many ways, it seems that with TCW and the live action show (and for some the prequels), Star Wars is entering into it's own second generation. For some, this second generation is clearly unlike the first. For others, they see little difference.

And a rift, one that has already formed, may be severely intensifying.

It seems that many of the older generation of SW fans (27-ish and over) never liked the prequels, and just can't stand TCW. For them, recent Star Wars seems to be a very different thing than what came out in the late 70's to early 80's. As the prequels rolled out one by one, it became more apparent with each film that Star Wars was heading in a direction that they didn't like. They felt betrayed. Sometimes they tried to deny the whole "heading in a direction they didn't like" thing. Sometimes they couldn't deny it, and embraced their feelings of annoyance and betrayal. But either way, many of them still held on to their love of Star Wars, despite the cognitive dissonance and frustration this caused. Perhaps coincidentally many of them are drawn to darker, more sophisticated/adult material (which, showing my hand here I suppose, I would define as "more morally ambiguous"). RotS was, given the story it told, more in line with what they like. And so, the prequels ended on a note that they were kind of ok with, and thus as the Star Wars saga in audio/video form drew to a close, they were able to continue to consider themselves Star Wars fans.

Then TCW comes out.

It deals with the prequel era, a time period many of them aren't fans of (maybe because they resent it for taking focus off of the post-RotJ era, which they prefer). Though it does contain some gritty stuff, it generally has a sense of non-serious fun (droid humor, Anakin/Ahsoka banter, Ziro, etc.) which seems to them to be more reminiscent of the prequels (which they don't love). It's animated, which for some makes the fact that it's primarily designed to please children more apparent. Then, for the AICN set, there's all the review embargo drama.

And thus we start hearing more folks say "I'm giving up on Star Wars," or asking, "Is it time we let the next generation enjoy Star Wars and move on?" Then there's the deeper questions of, "Did Star Wars ever have any religious/philosophical meat to it, or was it in our pre-adolescent heads?" and "Are some folks having such difficulty these days because somewhere in their heads they're realizing that they've dedicated so much of their lives to something that ultimately might be fluff?"

I ask you, fellow Star Wars fans of all types, are these the beginnings of the Great SW Fan Purge?

Will it soon come to pass that folks who've generally been unhappy with direction of canon SW from RotJ forward decide to bow out of active SW fandom...taking their good memories of a childhood and young adult life spent joyfully visiting a galaxy far far away, and moving on to things that deep down in their soul they realize fit more with who they are now? And those who remain will be the younger generation, and those of the older generations who find that they enjoy both the heavy and the light-hearted Star Wars?

Of course, there will probably still be those somewhere in the middle, those who perhaps like the occasional novel or Clone Wars episode. And maybe the rumored darker tone of the live action show will bring some of the dark-tone fans back a bit.

But in the end, the more Star Wars comes out, the more clear it is what Star Wars really is. And I think as time goes on it may be that some will find that they really don't dig what Star Wars, on the whole, is (whether they claim "it's changed into what it is" or decide that, except for the occasional fluke, it was always this way).

 

I'm kinda surprised its taken this long. How many folks like '60s era comics and '90s era comics just as much? How many folks like big fuzzy-headed 12" GIJoe and 3 3/4" swivel arm battle grip G.I.Joe the same? How many like Kirk and Picard equally?

ph

 

Have a looky over at the Lit Board for a lot of unhappiness at every aspect of Star Wars. Clone Wars animated will effect the fandom very lightly. No one is going to stop liking the OT because they don't like this.

I'm a 34 year old who's been with this franchise forever. I like the OT, PT, Droids and Wwoks cartoons, Novels, Comics, the first Clone Wars series, toys, etc....I'm a VIP customer of Mr.Lucas's universe. And nothing seems to ever scare people away.

The Star Wars franchise has likely never been stronger or more ingrained in the culture than it is now. Really if Jar Jar didn't turn Skywalker Ranch into a ghost town nothing will.

By the way, Phantom Menace is still the fourth or fifth highest grossing film ever isn't it? It just became hip to hate on Star Wars because of it

 

I agree that new Star Wars won't necessarily make people who loved the OT hate it.

But I think that the effects of a whole bunch of new A/V Star Wars could be more profound than one might at first think. This isn't a new novel or two, or ever a series of novels. This is new Star Wars, in video form, that Lucas seems to be considering canon...and at least 100 episodes worth. People can ignore a novel they don't like. But 50 hours of new canon that doesn't sit with them?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think on-the-fence Star Wars fans are going to find it more difficult to ignore TCW. It may push them to the point of saying, "I give up. I liked X number of the Star Wars movies. But it's become apparent to me that Star Wars no longer appeals to me.....and I'm ok with that. I won't complain and bemoan it anymore. I've accepted it. It was a fun ride while it lasted."

 

But wouldn't the only ones effected by the "new Canon" be the hardest of the hardcore fans. Fans not that versed in canon will have little concern for the events of a comic or Jedi Knighting getting shuffled around a bit this way or that.

Of course the 'canon" issue is always the biggest one, but when the dust settles it always seems to turn out OK.

 

That's what I'm talking about. The hardcore fans who're very passionate about Star Wars, even if much of that passion these days is negative.

My point about canon isn't regarding potential contradictions and how folks will feel about that.

My point is that an opinionated Star Wars fan can ignore a novel or an micro-series he/she doesn't like, and still retain an active love of Star Wars. I figure we all do that to some extent.

But if people hate the TCW theatrical release, odds are they may also hate the show. And they can't just ignore 50 hours of video Star Wars (especially since it's official Star Wars history...unlike a book that's EU and thus ignorable in their mind).

The more official Star Wars content that comes out that they hate, I think the less likely they'll be to continue to actively love Star Wars (i.e. care about new SW material coming out). They'll just take what they like, and move on to some other passion....not only not getting excited at the prospect of new SW, but not being actively bitter about it either.

 

I just wish the old school fans who bring nothing but negativity would please go away and become fans of something they actually like. If you look up the word fan, short for fanatic, it means you actually LIKE what you are a fan of! Some of these people are just a joke, and an annoyance to all of us real fans.

I edited out a bunch of stuff here that I thought was a personal attack on Moriarty and other fans. That is not acceptable. G_M.

I'm NOT by any means suggesting that everyone isn't entitled to their opinions, because if you pay money to see this stuff you have a right to your opinion, but after a while, like years of constant complaining, I just want to say... guys, come on, there are so many great films out there, so many great TV series (Prison Break is awesome, Smallville is so much fun, Lost is consistently good, etc.), can't you just find something that makes you really happy and enjoy that? I mean, if I hated the prequels I would be like screw Star Wars, I'll go find something else I like better because this is no longer my cup of tea. But instead, I grew up with the OT and watched the movies a million times, so when people tell me they grew up with the OT and that's what they loved, blah blah, so did I! I saw those movies at least 100 times each as a kid. I then saw the prequels, which I thought were every bit as great and amazing as the OT, saw them tons of times (50, 54, and 24 times in theaters for the prequels, already at 2 for Clone Wars in one day), and they really were amazing to me, gave me so many great memories, etc. Obviously if you don't feel that way, it's just time to move on. There's no shame in not liking Star Wars, obviously, but there are just so many other great entertainment properties out there I see no reason to dwell on one you don't like and aren't actually a fan of anymore.

 

*Bows to Bowen*

Hear, hear!

 

Purge implies an effort to push out fans, not a rift forming.

That aside, I don't think it will. It'll bring more people in as fans, and I doubt many will really give up on star wars because of it. It also depends on what brought you in to Star Wars and what you feel you get out of it. I don't think there's any deep philosophical truths to it, but interesting characters, a great mythos, and a deep universe. Thats a reflection not just of the movies, but of the EU that I started reading when I got into Star Wars just before special edition came out.

Several of the people I saw Clone Wars with were in the 27+ catagory, and many of them felt that this came back to the original Star Wars moreso than the prequels, in large part because there was, in my opinion, a greater focus on the characters than the prequels had and I connected to them more than I did in the prequels.

However, that all doesn't remove an underlying point, which is that the original trilogy is still what it is, and thats not devalued by anything else being added to the Star Wars universe. If people are fans just because of the original trilogy, then that is still the original trilogy. If they're fans because of a much larger Star Wars universe, then this is just a very small part of that mosaic of film, tv, comics, and books, and the big picture hasn't drastically changed.

 

YES! Hear, hear indeed!

I dont understand what the difference is between growing up on the OT from the time you are 7 years old to the time you are 11(how old i was when TPM came out) and groing up with star wars from the time you are 7 to the time you are 25! I knew nothing but the OT through out all my childhood and when i saw TPM in 1999 i LOVED IT! so i dont see why older fans of the OT cant at least like it! When i say to people "yea the OT will always be better but the PT is still GREAT and powerful movies" and they STILL get mad at even that idea and tell me im crazy for loveing and appreciating them i just shake my head and walk away feeling bad for the future.

And you know what the worst part is? (and listen up PT haters becouse this is for you) i have seen so called fans out there that actually turn new SW fans away from the series!!! i have seen it! you call yourself fans yet you are actually telling people they have bad taste in movies if they like the whole star wars series!?! let me tell you something and i mean this with all due respect so dont take to bad offence but it must be sed and mark my words- if star wars dies this generation its becouse of you. its becouse of you going on message boards all around the internet proclaiming your hate for 3 or even 4 out of the 6 star wars movies,its becouse of you get

 

I definitely think some sort of "fan purge" will happen. It happens with any franchise. It happened with me and The Simpsons. I used to think the show was brilliant. And then at some point it went downhill. Then it kept going. And going. And going. Now it's in what, it's 20th season? I haven't watched it since season 12, and I haven't really LOVED it since season 6.

Sure, no amount of bad episodes will take away from the really good episodes produced in its early years...but if you asked me "are you a Simpsons fan?" Whereas five years ago, I would have said yes(even with my unhappy attitude towards the show at the time), I would now answer with a clear no. Not "sort of", not "well I liked seasons 2-9, but I'm not a fan of seasons 10-20". No. It would be no, plain and simple.

So purging of fans is natural and happens with any franchise that sticks around long enough...sad as though it may be.

Still, I think Star Wars is sort-of safe for one reason. Star Wars to a lot of people is a six-movie series and that's it. No books, no comics, and no cartoons. The fact that the animated series premiered as theatrical movie certainly puts a kink into it, but I think most people will consider it part of the TV series rather than "the seventh Star Wars movie".

How many people were teenagers or adults when the Ewok movies came out? I'm curious what the general reaction was back then. Me, I was only five years old so I liked them. But I can imagine most of the adult crowd didn't like it. But I don't think it affected their love for the OT.

The funny thing is that the only true reason to find out if there's been a "purge" or not is for Lucas to actually make episodes 7-9. Would anybody show up? Would it be as big of a hit as the prequels?

 

Bowen, Gry Sarth, Lowbacca_1977, obi-rob-kenobi4 - This.

I'm what's jokingly called a "First Generation Jedi". I was there when "Star Wars" was just "Star Wars - that is, a movie that absolutley blew the world away. I remember when we were first introduced to 'droids' and 'lightsabers' and the mysterious extra bit, "Episode IV" was absent from the opening crawl. I saw "The Holiday Special" on TV, and had Luke with the yellow blade. I was in the thearte when we first heard the immortal words "No, I am your father..."

The theartre is long gone now, sadly an empty lot with barest traces of the old metal signage that used to read "In 70 MM Dolby Stereo!", but I'm still here.

I wasn't a fan of TPM - I only saw it ONCE in the theartre. This Christmas, the local toy drive got three HUGE sacks of unopened toys from me as I was 'thinning down' my collection. I HATED 99% of the 'EU' (and still do with a passion), but I was one of a few hundred people in line on Monday for a sneak preview. Among them, was a young man who proudly exclaimed that this was going to be his first 'big screen Star Wars' (his dad wouldn't take him to Sith) and I'm sure he *utterly* enjoyed it.

I did too...


So, in the nutshell - som fans will 'move on' but there are those who are still about, and for every one that does, there are new ones to discover it for their own.

 

DarthBreezy, you're right on. I don't believe the entire "first generation" will abandon Star Wars, but are generally the ones most offended by the "new" Star Wars. I consider myself an "in-betweener" being that I didn't get to see the classic trilogy in cinemas originally, but was always a fan of it way before the SE came out. I don't believe you have to love ALL of the Star Wars material in order to consider yourself a fan, but if you only have bad things to say about Star Wars, then there's certainly something wrong with your fandom and you should consider moving on to something that gives you more pleasure.

My personal fandom, I believe, is a little bit bulletproof. I think I'm more a fan of the "Star Wars Universe" than of the "Star Wars Saga". I love the setting, and enjoy seeing it get richer all the time. If there's a new story or character or something that displeases me, I can easily overlook them and keep on enjoying the universe as a whole.

I just don't understand people who insist on screaming their outrage at some new Star Wars item at the top of their lungs for all the online community to listen. If you don't like something, ignore it. Cling to what you love, filter what you don't. I hated the first Clone Wars animated season, but so what? I simply ignored it and moved on. If someone asks me what I think of it I'll answer honestly, but with no grief whatsoever. There are so many things to love in Star Wars, old and new, that I don't see why something you hate has to spoil all the rest...

 

I think the purge has been going on for some time now. When you read the majority of press reviews, these are written by people who no longer have an open mind. They want Star Wars to change their lives like it did in 1977. When it doesn't, they get bitter. They can't just have fun with it. They are done with it and want it to go away. Instead of reviewing, they are often openly campaigning for Lucas to stop. It isn't fun to them, thus they won't allow it to be fun for anyone else.

37 years old here, "first generation" Star Wars fan. I am not one who embraces all things Star Wars (hate most of the post-ROTJ stuff, for example) but I loved the PT and I loved this latest installment. In fact I enjoy the PT era more than the OT era.

I don't think age is the defining characteristic of the rift. Either you like it or you don't. And unfortunately those who don't like it are louder these days.

 

I am one of those "first generation" fans. Firstly, I actualy liked The Clone Wars Animated Movie. I took into account that it was a side story, and with that in mind I thought it was good. It reminded me of my beloved original trilogy. They got into developing the charachters, it had a believable plot, and did not screw up the continuity. (Although the fact that a space faring society can not develop a war droid that isn't stupid and Ziro that Hutt were hard to swallow) I look foward to the cartoon series and the live action.
I take exception to the original post by WedgWalker that people like me like "dark" star wars. While I think Star Wars has always been about moral ambiguity, the inner struggle between good and evil, and should incorporate what you call "darkness" That's not why I didn't like much of the PT. I love the expanded universe and all of the video games that add to the canon. I think that the problem for me and most of my generation with the prequal trilogy and much of its supporting paraphinalia (and keep in mind I didn't think Phantom was that bad and parts of ROTS were good) was the pandering to the audience. This arguement has been made time and time again, so I won't go into detail but...I mean their was no development of relationships between characthers, the plot line was thin, and there was no deeper level. You've got to realize, my friends and I grew up in the eighties with NO STar Wars stories coming out. For over a decade we were told "Just wait, something fantastic is coming." We expected something that would bridge a lot of the stories gaps, show us a complex young Anakin, and explain the mysteries of the force. Instead we got Jar Jar Binks, Jedi that didn't seem wise and mystical, and a pretense for the Clone Wars that only a person with a single number in their age could swallow. We were dissapointed, and yes perhaps bitter. But I'll never be done. There will always be something for us. This is why there is the EU. The EU satisfies US. For instance, Attack of the Clones the movie was awful, but accompanying EU books helped explain the story and I got over it. And again to reiterate, I thought this Clone Wars move was entertaining.

 

I'm 33 years old. I'm a first generation Star Wars fan. The first movie I ever saw in theaters was ANH back when I was 2 years old. I still have a hard time thinking of Episode IV as ANH. When I think of it I always think of it as Star Wars though I never call it that.

I remember the period of ANH's first release very well for someone who was but the youngest of younglings. I remember hearing the Star Wars music on the television and running in to watch the commercials urging us to see Star Wars again. I remember being glued to that damned set every time there was a toy commercial on. I still wish I had that Death Star playset with the dianoga. My dad used to bring home Star Wars action figures all the time. He bough them for himself but gave them to me so he wouldn't look childish.

I saw ESB opening day. I ran from the theater screaming "Turn it off" as the dream-Vader was decapitated. What can I say? I was give years old.

RotJ came out when I was eight. I loved the Ewoks then. I love them now. That's why I never understood all the Jedi hate. I was the right age for the movie. I was also a big fan of the two Ewok movies though the animated Droids and Ewoks series never really connected with me. They never felt very Star Warsy to me.

Star Wars kindled in me an undying love of movies and moviemaking. I went to film school because of GL. I taught myself to write screenplays and novels because GL taught me how to dream. I can pick apart movies on the technical and dramatic level because I so loved SW that I analyzed them to death. I can also willingly suspend my disbelief and not pick things apart because SW helped me develop my imagination. I owe George Lucas far more than he could ever owe me.

In the 90s I got very into the EU stuff all the way up until the release of TPM. It was at that point that I was a born again Star Wars fan and realized that there was something... off about the EU. I came to realize that TPM had the feel of real Star Wars and the books were just the Paul WS Anderson version of Star Wars.

It was the year 1999 that I became a Star Wars purist and an absolute undying fan of GL's vision.

As the years passed I became obsessed with all things PT and when it ended in 2005 I came to realize that I preferred the PT to my beloved OT. There was a unity of storytelling and a maturity of the GFFA that really appealed to me and I suspect always will.

Do I think GL is trying to purge the fanbase? No. No more than I believe he raped anybodys childhood. No. No more than I think the AICN embargo was GL's personal attempt to destroy Moriarty. No. No more than I think the sky is green.

If someone doesn't like the PT that's fine. Nothing is for everybody. but to hate on GL and to go after any project he's involved in... To insult the fans of the PT simply because they got to relive their childhood while the haters did not... To spend thousands of hours stinking up the internet with their hatred of nothing more important than a goddamned movie... A MOVIE! That kind of pettiness is lame. That kind of pettiness is what's causing the divide. Because a certain breed of "fan" doesn't know the difference between what's really important in life and what isn't.

Go ahead hate on GL. Hate on the fans who got it. Simply because you... hate... a... movie... The only ones you're hurting is yourself with all that hatred and recrimination... You're not hurting Star Wars. Star Wars isn't going anywhere. Star Wars is self-renewing. Eternal. Legendary. It isn't going anywhere. The only ones going anyplace are yourseles. Like it or lump it. Star Wars will live on long after we're gone.

 

You make it sound like the new movie wasn't liked because the old "fans" didn't like what was "new" instead of them not liking it because it was a HORRIBLE MOVIE.

First time poster, long time fan. Been a fan my whole life (20). I loved the first three movies, and I loved the second three movie. I hated this movie. The action was good, the art was good, the dialog made my ears bleed, and not just Anakin and the new jedi character. Everyone had horrible lines, and everyone sounded like they didn't want to be there.

 

No. Superman was created in the 1930's and he is still around. The Tobey Maguire Spiderman movies suck yet he is the most popular Marvel character. LOTR was a trilogy of books half a decade before movies came out and it had a fanbase and it'll still be hailed as one of the greatest stories. Everybody is still on the Beatles and Elvis. I don't even like Elvis yet I acknowledge how phenomenal he was to the world. Same with the Beatles but I like them. Tupac will never be dead in his music. Rappers come out today and you compare them to Tupac and Biggie.

Star Wars is like all of this. It will continue to draw in fans and even should someone stop being such a fan based on the its current direction it will hardly affect what Star Wars is.

 

I think it's best for everyone that people who don't really like Star Wars find something else to enjoy.

The people who don't enjoy it will hopefully find something else to enjoy and be happy with, and the people who enjoy Star Wars can go back to appreciating what they love without having to deal with all the negativity.

By the way, I was 7 when I first saw ANH back in 1977, and I have thoroughly enjoyed the prequels and clone wars so far.

To me it's all been what Star Wars should be.

 

Well said Prequel Dreamer... my thoughts almost exactly.

Yancy

 

I don't think anybody here is arguing the fact of hating the new movie or not. I for one have not yet seen it (damned Italy) and from what I hear I might very well not like it at all. The issue being discussed here is "fans" spilling their hatred of Star Wars and George Lucas just because they hated this or other Star Wars projects.

 

Has there ever been a movie/book/band that has inspired this much aggressive hatred? Most things that are disliked are ignored. With Star Wars, hatred is a hobby.

 

I would add Star Trek to this list.... I never thought Star Wars fans would degenerate themselves to the level of Trekkies and their hatred of all things Berman/Braga (they were the writers/producers of the last few Trek endeavors) or the great Trek geek debate of TOS vs. TNG... but we've managed it!

Congrats everyone!


Yancy

 

Obviously you haven't gone to any Smashing Pumpkins or Pearl Jam boards.

But no, Star Wars reached us when we were young, so it's impossible to be objective about it.

I'm 31 and find that, now that the Saga is complete, I'm not as obsessed as I once was. I've often vociferously argued my problems with the PT, but I've seen each of them 25 times or more.


There's always been a divide between fans; my brother and most of my friends really love the films, but would never read any of the comics or novels. Many people just don't give a hoot about "EU", while others prefer it to most of the films.


I think with the 2 new SW shows that we're fortunate enough to get, we'll see new fans being born every day, and we'll see people lose interest every day.

Generally, I don't like the same things I liked when I was 10 or 20; for those exceptions like Star Wars, I enjoy them in a different way.

I really don't understand why people have to spend so much energy being angry about it. I have my suspicions that it's often not George Lucas that they're truly angry at, but then that's just my opinion.

 

I'm actually OK with the divide between the fans. That's to be expected. What I don't get is the drive-by hatred of the general public and the media. Can't they just move on and ignore Star Wars? Why the need to continue to publish things like "Instead of making a splash in the summer of Batman, WALL-E and ABBA, 'Clone Wars' is just the latest drop of anemic blood squeezed from the petrifying husk of a once innovative science-fiction franchise." Many of the critics and the non-fans take a genuine pleasure in trashing Star Wars. The Rotten Tomato meter for Clone Wars is on par with I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry which was an absolute trainwreck of a movie. It's just not representative of the truth.