Clone Wars TCW Has Ruined the Villians

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garrett Atkins, Mar 30, 2013.

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  1. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    Dooku: Can't beat Anakin Skywalker after destroying him in Attack of the Clones. And he shouldn't even face him since ROTS says they haven't faced each other until that battle. Later, he is disarmed and humiliated by pirates, and has to escape with Obi-Wan and Anakin (Ha!, since we know Anakin cuts of his head in ROTS!). Dooku also is nothing like himself from the movies (as I have mentioned in a previous thread.)
    Grievous: Can't beat Ahsoka Tano, who is thirteen, twice in combat. Has defeated only one Jedi, a just-turned Jedi Knight, by cheating. And then he loses Nadhar's lightsaber to Kit Fisto, who then forces Grievous to escape. He is always humiliated by Count Dooku.
    Asajj Ventress: Gets humiliated by Yoda, has not defeated one Jedi, has faced Ashoka twice and hasn't won, and eventually her backstory (like Grievous' stupid proposed backstory) is ruined.
    Darth Maul: Was ruined. He should never have survived. Him cowering before Sidious was downright pathetic.
    Savage Opress: He had great potential as a Dark Jedi (and if he was not a replacement for Ventress, would have been x100 better.) And they ruined him by making him find (guess who!) Darth Maul.
    Nute Gunray and the Separatists: They are in the Republic Prison this whole time? Seriously?
    The Droid Army: Downright pathetic idiots.
    Magna Guards: The Droids who have mastered all 7 forms of lightsaber combat? Have not killed one Jedi, and lost to Ashoka, who I may emphasize, is 13.
    The above is my opinion on the topic. Discuss here the villians of the Clone Wars.
    Last edited by Garrett Atkins, Mar 30, 2013
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    I agree with you on every point except Asajj. I'm not opposed to her background from the comics but I like her as a Nightsister, and I thought she was still badass in the show, even if Yoda did beat her in Ambush.

    I will agree that she should have mopped the floor with Ahsoka though.
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  3. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    The villains weren't ruined, per se.

    In fact, they have plenty of badass moments: blind!Dooku defeated 3 invisible Nightsisters, took on Asajj & Savage at once; Grievous performs very well against Obi-Wan on the show, held his own against Asajj; Savage took on Obi-Wan & Anakin at once in "Witches of the Mist" and killed a Jedi Council member; Ventress, wounded, fended off Obi-Wan and Anakin in "Nightsisters"; etc.

    And Sidious in "The Lawless" was treated with the appropriate reverence.

    But they definitely could have been handled better. MagnaGuards should be on par with any Jedi Knight, Grievous should be Master level (but still lose to each and every one of the Jedi High Council), Ventress should be around High Council level, Savage should be a proto-Starkiller wrecking ball, Dooku should be threatened only by Mace or Yoda.

    If I were to grade TCW on its villains, I'd give it a C+ or B-. They have their outrageously sucky moments, but plenty of badass ones as well.
  4. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Imo Cad Bane was their only viable villain.
  5. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    On Dooku, I agree. He is well represented in Katie Lucas' Nightsister trilogy, though.

    Grievous has almost never been done right (Labyrinth of Evil may be the best representation). He's either way too powerful (microseries) or too weak (TCW 2008). Personally, just make him an excellent commander. Have him be a villain who outsmarts the Jedi and Republic and crushes them that way. But no, give him 4 lightsabers, that'll make him a strong villain, right? :rolleyes:

    Asajj Ventress is fantastic in this series. Underpowered? You must have missed the double (and then triple!) Force Choke. Her being unable to even fight Yoda in Ambush made sense to me (it's freakin' Yoda). She pretty much trounced Luminara and Ahsoka in Season 1, I guess you missed that too. She's also been given good character development.

    I agree that Darth Maul shouldn't have come back, I completely hate the concept of resurrecting a dead character. But I have to admit that he's pretty much the most menacing villain this show has produced. Maul taunting Obi-Wan with Satine could be the most powerful villain moment of the show, I feel.

    I like Savage. 'Nuff said.

    Gunray was hilarious in Cloak of Darkness. Would have liked to actually see the entirety of the Separatist Council.

    The B1s started to shut up through the latter half of Season 1, and into Season 2. Thank God.

    Bleh, Anakin shouldn't even face MagnaGuards until ROTS, according to the ROTS novel. I can look past that, though, it's only a small mention.

    You forgot to bring up the most underwhelming villains ever to grace this series though - the Super Tactical Droids. Adding "super" to their title doesn't make them more menacing. Actually, it makes them freakin' terrible. Two of them get beaten by a frog and a pit droid. [face_frustrated]
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Mar 30, 2013
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  6. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    No, he couldn't take down Savage and got owned by Talzin.

    No.

    Ventress is fine, Maul is ok, other than than I agree.

    You forgot Sidious, what the heck is those sinister smiles? He should hide himself well.

    CW handled GG and Dooku 10 times better than TCW

    This scene in CW beat any TCW scene of Dooku.

    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 30, 2013
  7. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I agree that we should see more of the CIS leaders. After, the CIS IS one of the two factions in the war that lends its name to this tv show.
  8. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    He was fighting Asajj and Savage. Talzin pulled some crazy Force powers out of her pocket, I thought the voodoo aspect was too blunt anyway, but in the face of it I'm not surprised Dooku was powerless.

    I mostly assume they're just pokes at the audience, similar to how I assume the holograms in Crisis on Naboo weren't actually flickering on and off constantly.
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  9. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    In no way is Dooku succumbing to Talzin's ritualistic voodoo problematic. He'd waste her in a face-to-face meeting; she ran from Grievous.
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  10. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
  11. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He easily owned Ventress in CW, why would he have a problem to beat her and Savage? Even GG could beat Ventress and Durge together.

    The Voodoo scene is also stupid.

    Oh and get himself captured by pirates.


    There is totally no need for such scene.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 30, 2013
  12. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    In case you didn't notice, the microseries doesn't follow the same laws and mechanics as "regular Star Wars". Every single combatant is more powerful in it than in other media.

    Have you seen how much Ventress has grown in power? Sidious wanted rid of her! Dooku is taking on two combatants at once, one very skilled and the other more a conduit of brute strength (notice how Dooku is able to overpower Savage easily during the fight).

    Oh, and since you mentioned Durge I might as well bring up how stupid a villain he was. He's basically a regenerator boss from a video game.

    I agree, I don't like the voodoo scene.

    It doesn't matter how powerful you are, if you're being pointed at by 20 people with guns you better do what they say.

    I've seen many a forumite mention they love every time Palpatine appears in this show.
  13. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Durge is easily the silliest villain of all to appear in Star Wars media. He basically comes across as a Boss on any number of fighting games... just goofy. Durge makes Trioculus look like a great EU character (and that takes a lot).

    Yancy
  14. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    What are you talking about? It's 1V1 battle. Ventress is very powerful in CW.

    She was no stronger than Obi Wan or Anakin, and Dooku could have finished Obi Wan+Anakin without Sidious helping Anakin even after they surprised him in RotS novel.

    He is dreadful and threatening, that's what most of the TCW villains lack of.




    Beside this, Dooku would not be that stupid to put him into such situation.


    And I see a lot of people dislike it.

    Will you like Palpatine to give a lot of sinister smiles in the movies?
  15. Cevan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Edit: Please excuse this post; was on my mobile device and accidentally submitted this too soon.
    Last edited by Cevan, Mar 30, 2013
  16. WampaSwamp Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2011
    star 1
    I don't think the intent was to kill Anakin in the series. And Dooku always won his fights against Anakin like in the Shadow Warrior episode and slaver arc. In ROTS, Obi-wan never talks about their last encounter being on Geonosis. He just says, "This time we take him together", which fits in with TCW since Anakin's last encounter was also against Dooku alone. I don't see how he isn't like himself in the movies...

    Ahsoka is actually 16, but yeah, this is a point I can agree with. Grievous hasn't really been threatening in TCW and now it looks like we'll never see the series interpretation of how he kidnaps the chancellor.
  17. Cevan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    I agree with all your points except the ones about Maul and Dooku. But first, about Maul. How is him cowering before Sidious pathetic? Sidious is the current Dark Lord of the Sith, far more powerful than Maul. Sidious' training methods for Maul back when he was his apprentice often involved great pain, so obviously Maul would be screaming and begging for mercy when Sidious' was using Force lightning on him, as Maul most likely remembered how harsh Sidious was years ago.

    Now for Dooku. When does it say that Anakin and Dooku haven't fought since that duel? Anakin just says, "My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count." All he's saying is that he has grown stronger since Anakin and Dooku last fought. He is disarmed by pirates because a majority of Ohnaka's gang had their blasters all pointed right at Dooku. If he tried anything, he'd be shot for sure. He had to escape with Obi-Wan and Anakin because, what else could he do? They were cuffed together, so he had no choice.
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  18. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    The novel said they haven't met since Geonosis.

    GG appeared in 6 episodes of CW, killed 3 Jedi Master, 1 knight, 1 padawan, would kill another if not for the comic showed him alive later, brutally beat 2 council members, Shaak Tii twice. Only got beaten by Dooku and Mace Windu.
    He appeared in nearly 20 episodes of TCW, only killed 1 knight and it was using blasters to ambush, got beaten many, many times.
  19. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    RotS novel.
  20. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I guess GL changed his mind.
  21. Cevan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Hmm. Well, I suppose that can be overwritten since it's just a novel, and it's not the actual film.
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  22. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    The battle also showed Dooku didn't know Obi Wan changed to Soresu and Anakin changed to Djem So, so he was quite surprised when they revealed their true style. However, Dooku was still able to turn the table, used Force skills to beat Obi Wan and taunted Anakin to disrupt him from going rampage, if it wasn't Sidious who helped Anakin to control his anger, Dooku would mostly have won.

    But now, it's a total mess.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Mar 30, 2013
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  23. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    Just a minor correction about Dooku being disarmed by pirates in Dooku Captured. He was actually disarmed surreptitiously by Hondo's pet Kowakian lizard, Pilf Mukmuk. Hondo used deception and guile as opposed to threatening with brute force to get Dooku to surrender to him after bringing the Sith Lord to Florrum. Had Hondo failed to steal Dooku's lightsaber, I am sure the latter would not have surrendered without a fight, and there would probably be numerous pirate casualties before they could even hope to capture Tyranus. Other than that small detail, I agree with your points.
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  24. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Even without lightsaber, Dooku still has his Force skills in the pocket.
    Why would Dooku stuck himself with such a situation?
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  25. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    As @Cevan pointed out, there were dozens of pirates pointing their blasters at Dooku. Even with a cape composed of armorweave, I doubt Dooku would be able to avoid getting hit by at least a few bolts. A clean headshot would have done him in. Now, perhaps he could have performed a Force Repulse like Windu on Dantooine or Savage in Witches of the Mist, but he might not have been able to take out all of the pirates in this manner. I will admit, though, that this episode and the subsequent The Gungan General had too many instances of the major characters being handed the Idiot Ball (many other episodes throughout the series are guilty of this as well).

    Another point I'd like to make. I feel the characterization most of the Jedi as well as General Grievous was greatly exaggerated in the microseries; TCW did a much better job of approximating their powers closer to those seen in the films. I really have a hard time believing Windu could have single-handedly taken down all the droids without a lightsaber in the Battle of Dantooine. The microseries could perhaps even be viewed through the lens of propaganda (for both the Republic and the CIS), where everyone's powers are blown out of proportion as opposed to reality.
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