Clone Wars TCW Has Ruined the Villians

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garrett Atkins, Mar 30, 2013.

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  1. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    This is a funny stretch...

    How about Mace being one of the masterminds behind the scheme of Obi-wan faking his death and using Anakin's emotions to sell it? That's pretty evil thing to do.
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  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I agree.

    That arc did far more to escalate Anakin's being so pissed off at the Council than the Ahsoka arc IMO, although if Anakin feels that the Council drove her away--which he probably does, although I disagree--then that was salt on an already-opened wound.
  3. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    So many pages to cover...



    That still drives me mad since Savage is a horrible character that went nowhere.





    The problem is that half the time since Season Two the CIS are given 3rd billing. They ARE the real villains, but the show did think so so that had lame excuses like Maul serve as central villains for a couple of seasons.

    Trench is the best thing to come out of TCW and Grievous was portrayed like an idiot until Massacre. Basically every villain TCW introduced kinda did a better job than Grievous AND I love Grievous to the end.






    The old series was amazing and staying on topic. Not loosing focus with things like Maul and Bounty Hunters.



    I do not get your hate over the alien races. It is really unjustified given what the SW movies have done before with dogmen, pigmen, teddy bears and many others.

    Trench is an amazing edition to the SW universe, much better than anything the Post-Endor EU threw at us, but I guess to each is own.
    Tarados, you could just be an arachnophobe - I have seen many hate Trench just cause they hate Spiders.
    Last edited by Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan, Apr 21, 2013
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'll be honest.

    This is exactly why I hate him.
  5. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    star 4
    I completely understand! It confirms what I have seen. ;)
  6. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    Somewhat off-topic, but just yesterday a dead spider fell from my ceiling right on top of my keyboard, inches from my face... I was mildly annoyed, and disposed of the deceased arachnid a moment later.
  7. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    *shudder*

    My worst nightmares involve not being able to breathe (I can't watch any of the Vader choke scenes from the movies either) and my second worst involve lying in bed and seeing hairy spiders crawling all over my walls.
  8. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I'd argue Grievous in TCW fits your description of Durge (who is a great character by the way).
    Last edited by Garrett Atkins, Apr 21, 2013
  9. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

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    Jun 15, 2011
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    Durge really sucked. In some ways, he symbolizes why I didn't like the Yuuzhan Vong.
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  10. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    Durge and the silly Vong?! What is the connection there?

    PS: Durge is a Separatists so by default he rules!
    Last edited by Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan, Apr 21, 2013
  11. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I don't find many things the villains did in the Microseries very memorable. Ventress vs Anakin in the rain and Jedi freaking hiding from Grievous being exceptions. I always thought it was ridiculous Jedi were shown to be hiding from him. Not what I imagine from a Jedi at all.
  12. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    Honestly I like the Star Wars villains more than the heroes. They have more diversity and many of them are incredibly complex characters.

    Darth Maul: Sith apprentices tend to cower before their masters. It's the natural order of things.
    Nute Gunray: I kind of wish that he was around, but there are already so many more incompetent separatists, he kind of wasn’t needed. I do like how cowardly/annoying he is.
    Droid Army: One of my favorite star wars armies. I love how they just don’t care about silly humans or their leaders or even the conflict at large, and yet they are a huge threat in numbers. They are kind of a troll army.

    Manga Gaurds: I agree they should have been more powerful and I would have loved to see more of them.
    Greivous: Ditto on Grievous. the other clone wars movie gave him a ridiculous power level and the ability to beat council members. I’m okay with his characterization at being incompetent yet having moments that shine. It also makes sense that his cybernetics would weaken him as much as they enhance him. (Or else everyone would want to be cyborgs)
    Ventress: Of course she’d be humiliated by Yoda. Does not make Ventress any less badass.
    Dooku: Usually in TCW Dooku schools Anakin. His being caught by Hondo was hilarious.
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  13. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    To be fair, TCW did a poor job of portraying the CIS. I think we really should have gotten to see more of the Separatist Council. They only ever showed General Grievous, Nute Gunray, Poggle the Lesser, and Wat Tambor onscreen.

    We need to see San Hill (fingers crossed that he'll appear in the Clovis arc), Rune Haako, Shu Mai, Passel Argente, Po Nudo, Tikkes, and Rogwa Wodrata before the series concludes. Make it some all-important Council meeting with Count Dooku. Show us Dooku as a charismatic politician, not just a villainous Sith Lord. Damnit Filoni, please make it happen in the bonus content!
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  14. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    It was a huge mistake to sidestep the issue of the Separatist Council, imprisoning a bulk of them for the war's duration. To make the CIS more competent and more compelling, we should have seen the origin of General Grievous, Asajj Ventress, and introduce Dooku's dark side adepts. Then, organic separatists (ex. Umbarans or Onderonians) working alongside battle droids.
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  15. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Redo!

    The C.I.S. is not really much of an analog to the Confederacy in the American Civil War, IMO. The Separatists aren't like South Carolina which wasn't just trying to save the cotton industry. They were trying to protect what they saw as souvenir rights. Far as I tell, the C.I.S. are more like if companies like Microsoft, Apple, Merrill Lynch, J.P. Morgan Chase, Pfizer got so mad and greedy they decided to talk some states into leaving the union for them to get away from some regulations and somehow managed to make it sound like they were leaving corruption behind for greener pastures for good people like Mina Bonteri. It just so happens that in the GFFA that corporations are more like Xanatos Enterprises, they got capital like larger that alot of planets and armies to protect it. Then in the war they were just being portrayed as outright evil or stupid most of the time on TCW and even back in AOTC. No one in that meaning on Geonosis came across as anything but the league of doom. Its not an easy task to get past that setup.

    If the Separatists were going to be used as the bad guys AOTC set them up to be in TCW then where were the bad guy centric episodes? I love bad guys episodes. Screw the Autobots. The Decepticons are more entertaining. The simplest thing was to make Separatist-centric episodes and give them some exploration. Start with Dooku. In AOTC, as I mentioned before he had the bad guy stamp on his forehead but was much more nuanced. That's the one slice of the mythology of TCW that was missed. It was not doubt about missed completely. And being fresher to the franchise than alot of folks I'd have gotten alot out of it.

    Stuff could have been done easily with TCW's regular, circular villain of the day format in early seasons. All they had to do was actually put us on the ground with one of Dooku's minions. Make this person more central. I'd called for a Jedi switching sides but it really can be just one of Dooku's main minion after Grievous and Ventress in early seasons. Take a look at how the Sailor Moon anime handles the 'monster of the day' formula. Make him/ her a reoccurring character. Fives for example had 10 episodes seasons 1-5. Ten episodes is all it takes to flesh out a personality and motives. No less than that, Maul was like an honorary OC and then look at Vizsla in season 5. Back to Fives, he is supposed to be the viewers Window into the Clone Wars through the eyes of a special clone trooper. We needed a character or four like that on the Separatist side. I hope we get something like that in the bonus material (I wont hold my breath).

    And yes, we needed to find a senator like Kersh Kuchi and Voe Atell who is more like a counterpart to Bail in the CIS to follow around. Satine sitting in the background looking bored and her "Wait, what?" reaction to Lux being dragged off were like 10x more interesting to me than Kersh Kuchi and Voe Atell in "A Friend in Need".

    The hindsight version of this post makes me sad. Last time I wrote a post like this it wasn't in past tense. TCW's strengths were elaborating on the mythologies of both Star Wars and within the Clone Wars itself. TCW did awesome work with the OCs, Anakin, and Obi-wan. Villains and the lack of explorations of the CIS were just its total weakness.
    Last edited by Seerow, Apr 22, 2013
  16. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Um... at no point did I say that I hated alien designs.

    I hate Trench's design, which has nothing to do with disliking spiders, since I am in no way arachnophobic, tolerate them in my home (as long as it's not too crazy) and have no fear of handling them so long as I'm confident they are not a deadly/dangerous species.

    I said I liked Tamson's design. Tamson had a threatening appearance for a threatening character. The "pig men" have an appearance befitting a dimwitted and slow species (yes, pigs are actually very smart, but generally carry the image of being slobs). Trench was supposed to be a cunning character and they just arbitrarily went with some overt design intended to frighten and it seemed out of place, since the character wasn't particularly horrifying in behavior and had more of a gentlemanly composure as opposed to someone like Tamson where the ruthlessness of the character synced up well with his appearance.
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I am always distracted and annoyed by Trench's clicking which is why I hope Fives rips off one of his prosthetic limbs and beats him with it.
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  18. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    Cool... so Tamson gets more love than Trench here?!
  19. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Tamson gets more love from me than Trench does. I'm glad you enjoy him so much. I like Sharks. I liked how Tamson tries to eat people. He is so primal. The scene where he rams his head threw the glass of the tube all 'NOM! NOM! NOM!' is just awesome.
  20. SeparatistFan Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 19, 2012
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    TCW team likes the heroes to win most of the time, but in Season 1 we had Cloak of Darkness and Lair of Grievous which are great episodes for making the CIS successful. A problem started since Savage was brought in to the show because him and Maul ended up getting most of the major bad guy wins. One thing annoying for me about the Maul arc is how much more successful his team were compared to the CIS, major victories like they had are ones that should have been given to the CIS in earlier seasons. (Spoiler alerts for the Thundercats 2011 reboot) It would have been nice if TCW could have been more (Thundercats 2011) in terms of villains where you would get different villains sometimes, but the main villains were still the main threat. Another thing I liked about Thundercats is that in S2 Mumm-Ra ended up with some new generals which kept things fresh. It would have been nice if the same could have been done with Dooku on TCW, there has been a major need for something like that to be done since the Dathomir arc in S3, where Ventress ended up out of the CIS and the CIS council leaders were no longer being used for big roles.
  21. SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Master

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    May 10, 2013
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    Garrett Attkins, why so serious?! [face_party]

    TCW villains are good quality villains. They are better than JJ Abrams villains like nero or
    Show Spoiler
    rebooted khan

    .
    Last edited by SeinEwigerSchatten, May 13, 2013
  22. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

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    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Tamson is ridiculous.

    They basically just stuck a shark's head on a humanoid body.

    Most unoriginal villian species ever.

    I liked Trench, OTOH. He's kinda like a proto-Thrawn. I've heard we may get more of him in the completed episodes of S6. Which is something to look forward to. :)
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, May 13, 2013
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  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    I can't stand either of them. I don't mind sharks, but Tamson is annoying as hell. If I were a character in that arc, I would hope he would bite my head off so I wouldn't have to listen to him cackle anymore.
  24. JackG Force Ghost

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    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    lewl
  25. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    [IMG]
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