Clone Wars TCW Pessimism Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by JackG, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. Master_Gallia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 2
    I still like the show but agree. There's so many things that can be explored without everything and everybody being explicitly related to everything else and everybody else.

    I'd love to see more interaction between Ahsoka and Barriss Offee, more depth given to the CIS and the idealism that gave rise to Dooku leaving the Jedi Order etc.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  2. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I have to agree with the general point that TCW finds ways to make the Star Wars universe feel smaller when it easily could have made it feel bigger instead.
  3. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    That is the problem with Lucas's lame approach to his own universe. He does not make a TV series, he is continuing the movies like a hack. Instead of really delving into the great war like many people before him with this show, he just goes back and redoes things. Like Geonosis, Anakin, Maul, Boba and so on. These are all things he wanted to do in the movies but did not have the time in the saga so he is proceeding to ruin each season by applying Movie logic to a TV show about a huge galaxy.
    He thinks that a character like Anakin or Padme work for 2-4 hours of movie but he does not realise that in the grand scheme of things his portrayal of those two characters can not work for a series with over a 100 episodes of how many hours.

    That is where he fails and the EU succeeds. Thanks to comics series like the Republic ones, we get a very diverse view on the war in almost every issue. ESPECIALLY cause it focuses on other characters, many other characters.


    Season One was more attuned with the EU and that is why we had a Yoda story, a Mace story, a Plo Koon story, a Kit Fisto story, a Luminara story... something Lucas can not bring himself to squize out his ______ to make the newer seasons feel fresher. The more he uses Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan... the more each season will feel as stale as the last.

    If instead of Obi-Wan, the Hardeen arc was focused on Quinlan Vos or Mon Calamari was focused on Kit Fisto and not NOT Anakin - then those arcs would be a lot better. Cause when a writer has a new character or rarely used character to work with, they could be more free to do something interesting with that character new and fun things. But if they are forced to use the same tired character of ,let's say, Anakin then they have to follow previously established boring rules by Lucas that downgrade a story a lot.
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    @Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan I disagree that not using Anakin is automatically good and using Anakin is automatically bad. The Mon Cala arc didn't have much of anything that necessitated Anakin, Ahsoka, and Padme, so I agree that in that case they could have made it much better by using other characters. But in the Rako Hardeen arc the fact that Anakin is involved is crucial. His eerie moments being talked to by Palpatine in Friends and Enemies are some of the most ominous of the series, and that lightsaber duel at the end of Crisis on Naboo could not have the same impact if Anakin wasn't the Jedi Knight there. And there's the whole aspect of him not 100% trusting the Jedi that is introduced that I also love. I think there are a lot of things regarding his character they could have done better or at all in the PT that I'm very glad to see in TCW.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Dec 16, 2012
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    In AOTC, Anakin was generally OK with the Council; his biggest issues seemed to be with Obi-Wan. Case in point, on Tatooine, Anakin was ready to obey Mace's orders without question, even with Padme arguing with him, whereas Anakin argued with Obi-Wan no matter what Obi-Wan said to him.

    In ROTS that trend seems to have reversed; in fact, going by the novelization, the main reason that Anakin didn't go to Obi-Wan about Padme's pregnancy is that he assumed that Obi-Wan's primary obligation would be towards the Council--whom he very obviously did not like and did not trust at all, and vice versa.

    So what happened between the two films to cause that change? We need to see it in TCW, and I think the Hardeen arc did a great job of establishing some of this.
  6. Danzo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    star 1

    I enjoyed the youngling arc for what it was but I would have found it so much more interesting if we'd had Barris or an OC Jedi leading those younglings through their trials.
  7. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Well, at least, we agree that Anakin and Padme and Ahsoka were not needed in the Mon Calamari arc.

    I still do not understand the reasoning behind the Bounty Hunters arc so I will give you it for Anakin. But one major crime of the Hardeen arc is that it recycles the same duel for it's climax AND we know how that duel ends so it is not a good climax.


    True! But it could have been handled better and have a better focus. For most of that arc, it felt like it was an Obi-Wan arc but in the end it copped out on us with the cheap duel at the end.
    Nothing against building the distrust in a good way - I loved the comic where Vader observes a hologram of how the Jedi Council hid the Ghost Prison from him... that was done well.

    But to be fair, with his actions in all of his arcs, Anakin has built this realm of distrust. The Jedi do not trust him for a reason.
    Last edited by Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan, Dec 16, 2012
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  8. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I thought the Crisis on Naboo duel was the best General Skywalker/Darth Tyranus duel of the series by far, so not a pointless recycle for me.
    Seerow likes this.
  9. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    The duel in Crisis was the best bar none and the only one that matter in IMO. It actually accomplished putting on a show for Palpatine so he could make his decision about Anakin. That said. I do think that should be the final fight between Skywalker and Dooku until ROTS.
  10. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    There didn't need to be another fight between Anakin and Dooku with Palpatine watching between AOTC and ROTS; the one at the beginning of ROTS was perfect.
  11. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    While it was a great (and deciding contest), the Sith Master needs to compile as much evidence as possible to choose his next apprentice; should the current apprentice be found lacking.
  12. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Wow... oops, sorry. For some reason I thought I had posted that in the 'Worst episodes thread'. Ummm. Seerow out!
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 16, 2012
  13. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I know you guys love this arc and the things in it but for me the quality of the duel does not matter much if it was done more than 2 times in a season and twice on the same planet. It IS recycled. It is a Dooku vs Anakin duel on Naboo - nothing new!

    Maybe if we never had Shadow Warrior then I would feel different about this.
    Last edited by Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan, Dec 16, 2012
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    They really are going to have to come up with some explanation for "my powers have doubled since last time we met." When did they last meet? The day before yesterday? Or did they suddenly stop meeting all the time a year before ROTS?
  15. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Thank you. That is another reason I find the overuse of Anakin vs Dooku a little stupid. I mean it is fun to watch Anakin duel with the newest animation TCW uses but given that the ROTS duel begins with the line you mention, it is really confusing for most of us WHEN will it be the last time.
    I hope the duel on Naboo in episode 18 of S4 be the last so the show stops underlining awesome ROTS banter.

    Maybe it will be the last duel in TCW between the two and those words of taunting by Dooku as he leaves will be the very same words and moment that Anakin refers to in ROTS.
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  16. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Isn't that exactly what happened in Labyrinth of Evil ?

    I think the only explanation is Anakin's hubris, which is unfortunate because that line is awesome if you only consider their duels in AOTC and ROTS.
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  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    That's what I'm afraid of, which is why I wish they hadn't met during the show at all, much less over and over again. It would have been much better if "the last time we met" still referred to Anakin getting his ass handed to him on Geonosis.

    Dooku's unspoken response in the ROTS novelization was, "Oh, such a fragile little ego."
    eht13 likes this.
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    "Twice the pride, double the fall" is one of my favorite Star Wars quotes, it's up there with the OT Vader stuff from JEJ.
  19. K'Kruhk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    From what I remember, they didn't meet, communicate with each other, make eye-contact, etc. in that novel.
  20. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Just pulled it out.

    They met, sorta, and they did communicate, but it wasn't face to face.

    Just before they raced to Coruscant, they were on Tython in the same building together, I believe even in the same room together. Dooku was hiding, but left a hologram of himself for Skywalker and Kenobi to find. Dooku activated the microphone from another room and spoke to Skywalker and Kenobi. Skywalker called out (quite impressively) for Dooku to show himself. Dooku sics a ton of droids on Kenobi and Skywalker so he can escape. At the end, Skywalker lets out a Force Howl that brings the ceiling down on their heads.

    I guess it holds up, because they never really got to face off, at least not like Skywalker wanted. He was probably saving up that "powers have doubled" line during the whole trip to Coruscant.

    Here are a few rips from the novel, just for fun:

    (I'm paraphrasing here, there's much in between I left out)

    Bold mine.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Dec 16, 2012
  21. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    So glad Lost Command didn't copy that...
  22. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    I believe that the technological advancement for the graphics of this show and the technological advancement of the intelligence of the battle droids are inversely related.
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  23. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    I am getting more and more pessimistic each day... :)
    Esg likes this.
  24. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Is a happy face congruent with increased pessimism? Or should you have a frowny face? Or are you happy about becoming more pessimistic?
  25. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    We can't really be telling people which emotes to use.
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