TCW & Rebels Now Officially Canon, EU Not Canon

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Narutakikun, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    The novelizations have been confirmed to be canon, and the TPM novelization says that Bane's apprentice was male, so goodbye Zannah.
    cwustudent likes this.
  2. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV - Vacationing and stuff

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    Where'd you here that, purple? I'm guessing twitter.

    Either way, it's not like they're gonna do their gosh-darn best to stick as close to the novelisations as possible. Stover's ROTS contains a lot of EU references, while ADF's Star Wars has lots of relics of earlier drafts of ANH.
  3. DarthWilliams Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2008
    star 4

    There's still some murkiness here:
    [IMG]
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    There is no way the movie novels could be completely canon as I think they all contradict the films.

    Then again...
  5. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    Anything that's in the novelizations and doesn't contradict the movies is canon. No murkiness at all.
  6. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    So what does this mean for Shaak Ti?
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  7. DarthWilliams Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2008
    star 4

    See I read it as anything that's both in the novels and the movies is canon, a.k.a. anything in the novels but not the movies is not canon. Happy to eat my hat, though.
  8. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV - Vacationing and stuff

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    Yeah, that's pretty murky. It really can be either one of those interpretations. I'm guessing they'll take a case by case approach, if anything ever even comes up.

    There's also the deleted scenes that made it into nearly every novelisation. One could say they still align with current canon, but then again they might not.
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Apr 30, 2014
  9. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    What will I do next time? Same thing as this time. Expect it, not really care, and pick-and-choose my own canon. People who would like all Star Wars stories across all mediums to work together have had problems since the 1970's, you only need to check out the letters columns in some of the early Marvel SW comics to know that. If you don't mind it all becoming AU I don't think you'll have a problem since that seems to be what they're doing it, but I wouldn't call that a second canon, it's non-canon.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Apr 30, 2014
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  10. Sandtrooper92 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 2
    I read this twice to no avail.


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  11. Sandtrooper92 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 2

    Yup. Doesn't matter. Continuity is a comic book debate, generally. Always has been.


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  12. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    The thing I expect from this new unified canon is that it will be non-essential (in the video game/comic/novel forms). The old canon would put important events in the novels, which reach a smaller audience than the movie goers.

    Want to know where the Sith cam from? Read the comic! Want to know why the Trade Federation was blockading Naboo? Read the book! Want to know who Sifo-Dyas is? Read a comic! (this is no longer true, but it was for the longest time).

    I think now that things like the Sith origins, and really big main events of Star Wars history will be left to TV shows and the spinoff films. I suspect that the comics and novels going forward will instead focus more on very supplemental stories, which I think is supported by the four announced book titles that are to kick off the new unified story. I think they will fill supplemental roles such that they would not even be likely to be referenced in the spinoff films, continuing saga, or TV shows. They won't contradict the films or TV shows, but the latter won't necessarily reference them either. That if Tarkin appears in Rebels, that the Tarkin novel might shed greater light on what kind of man Tarkin is or reference his early career and life, but would serve more as a source if you want to learn more about the man, not something that you really have to read to have a complete picture of what's going on.

    The Sith in the films were constantly about revenge, and yet we never know why. Lucas explains in the commentaries, but he never cites specific characters or specific events. He speaks more generally. I think that if we ever get an official take on where the Sith came from and how they relate to the Jedi, etc. that it will come in movie or TV form, not be left for the comics or novels, which might hug more closely to the TCW/OT era for the time being so as not to contradict the films going forward chronologically or any potential spinoff films that may occur pre-TPM
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Apr 30, 2014
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  13. rdhight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 3
    I agree. I don't think we're going to see nearly as many books that show us military high command, the broad sweep of wars, and "why the movie happened" type answers. We're going to be seeing the same galaxy, but through a telephoto lens.
  14. H-BOMB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2009
    star 2
    I hope eventually this new realm of books expands outside of the realm of the movies. Going to places in the past often showcased in the EU, for example. Perhaps a trilogy about the line of apprenticeship from Yoda to Anakin, with one book focusing on Yoda and Dooku, one with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and another perhaps with the early days of Obi-Wan and Anakin. I'd be down for that!

    And it would be even more interesting to see books exploring events like the Mandalorian war with the Republic that resulted in the schism of ideologies responsible for the New Mandalorians and the Death Watch. I've been thinking about that time-period since Season 2 of the Clone Wars and it has always intrigued me.

    But, its very possible that Disney will be cautious with these concepts, in order to preserve the possibility of future films or TV series. But still. I'd like to see them in book form.
    Circular Logic and cwustudent like this.
  15. K'Kruhk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    After the Yoda arc I think it's pretty clear that she died by Vader's hand during Operation: Knightfall. TFU is non-canon as is the deleted scene of her death by Grievous' hand. It surprises me that so many people want to regard that deleted scene as her final fate when she clearly appears mid-way-through ROTS.
  16. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Del Rey clarified this statement and said the novelizations are canon, except where they contradict what appears on screen. So Owen Lars is still Anakin's step-brother. Maybe they can release new "redacted" version of the novelizations with non-canon paragraphs or lines of dialogue blacked out.

    Yancy
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    While "Owen is Anakin's stepbrother" does not outright contradict "Owen is Obi-Wan's brother" - it would have been a pretty huge coincidence for Owen & Obi-Wan to both be sons of Cliegg - especially given that it's never brought up.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, May 1, 2014
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  18. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Well hopefully it is the canon version of events now. It is too me anyway.
  19. Vespasian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    I really like the first Force Unleashed video game, but I've always found it hard to believe that an immature kid ultimately founded the Rebellion, or that decades after Order 66 the galaxy was still crawling with Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda to start with, General Kota, Starkiller, Shaak Ti, that crazy Jedi on the junk planet, Maris Brood, or that Jedi Knight in... the Jedi Knight video game, Jerec, Maw, and we may add Ashoka and Ventress too).

    For that reason I'm not crazy about Kanaan either BTW, I just hope they won't introduce a lot other Force wielders.

    The Force Unleashed was an epic game, but it doesn't fit in with movies IMO. Shaak Ti dying in Episode III is fine with me.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Jerec was one of the Emperor's minions- a Jedi Master that Order 66 missed, who pragmatically chose to offer his services to the Emperor. And after he died, starting plotting to rule the galaxy himself.
  21. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    If future movies and tv episodes are to be beholden to it, the new EU should be informed about the scripts of the TCW episodes that weren't made as well as plans for Rebels.

    Anyway, I'd love the new EU to explore what's going on on Coruscant during Rebels.
    Last edited by purplerain, May 2, 2014
  22. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2013

    But that's just it, those events NEVER happened in the new canon. At least not unless they specifically state they did. Nothing we know and love from EU is relevant anymore - completely erased from the timeline. So in the new canon, the Mandalorian Wars may never have even happened, Darth Revan, Malak, Nihilus, Malgus, Sith Emperor Vitiate, Marka Ragnos & all Ancient Sith, Mara-Jade, Ben Skywalker, The Solo Twins / Darth Cadeus, Thrawn, Kyle Katarn, Boba Fett (Surviving the Sarlacc) and all the other popular EU characters NO LONGER EXIST in the new canon. Slate has been wiped clean. No Old Republic, no Darth Bane founding the Rule of Two after countless Sith Empires fell, no Yuuvhan Vong war, no Dark Nest crisis, no Madalorian War, no Celestials/Abeloth, no Rakatan Infinite Empire, no One Sith, nothing!

    Of course they can cherry pick what they want, but that doesn't mean any of the details we know will stay the same. Some things will be carried over i'm sure, but appearances/relationships and histories will probably not remain the same, all the things that make those characters/events special to us will be different.

    However, having had time to let the whole EU non-canonization sink in, i'm still excited for the new movies and will still enjoy my novels no less. I'm excited by the freedom they now have for the storylines going forward, but its bittersweet to have lost so much as well.


    This is exactly what i hope will happen. Having read that i think its made me realize, that its not the fact that these stories are no longer official canon within the movie-verse that upsets me, but the fact that these great stories and characters from EU (in the EU non-canon 'Legends' universe/timeline/old canon) will never again be revisited or continued, and stories will no longer be finished or aftermaths explored.

    I would love for them to continue these stories under the 'Legends' brand so that our EU passions will still live on even if not a part of the new canon, but as you said it is extremely doubtful.

    There was a new trilogy of novels planned called 'Sword of the Jedi' which was going to be a sequel to the 'Fate of the Jedi' series which i was really looking forward to, i know a lot of people didn't like the FOTJ series, and i agree some of the novels were a lot weaker than others, but overall i really enjoyed the story of Abeloth, and looked forward to the aftermath of this, especially since Vestara Khai was still loose with Ship by the end. But now that along with many other stories will never happen!
  23. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    I'm pretty sure H-BOMB is referring to the Mandalorian Excision, which is one part of the old EU that I can certainly see them keeping, since it was a direct historical lead-in to TCW's New Mandalorians and neatly explained the division between the clans, the True Mandalorians, Death Watch, and the New Mandalorians. The subsequent Great Clan Wars that sparked this division will likely remain in canon as well, at least in the broader strokes; the details are pretty bare as is, so they are free to expand upon this history as they see fit, so long as the final outcome is a resulting schism.

    You know, they will probably keep a scene like this in canon, since it is alluded to in the S2 Mandalorian trilogy:
    [IMG]

    Now, the older Old Republic era Mandalorian EU might no longer be canon, but they are continuing TOR. I imagine since they likely won't touch this era in a long time outside of TOR, that it is relatively safe. For example, Pre Vizsla noted that his ancestors stole the Darksaber from the Jedi Temple during the time of the Old Republic, possibly alluding to that cinematic "Deceived" where we see bounty hunter Shae Vizla enter the Temple during the Sith attack on Coruscant.

    I'm more concerned about the post-TCW Mandalorian EU. They might choose to get rid of Spar, Fenn Shysa, or even Boba Fett eventually becoming Mandalore after escaping the Pit of Carkoon. All of those stories might well be overriden in light of the ST and new EU, especially if they confirm that Fett never survived to escape the Sarlacc. If that's the case, then all of Fett's post-RotJ stories and those of his descendants (Ailyn, Mirta) will truly go the way of the dodo, like the stories of the Solo and Skywalker children in light of the ST.

    Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel about it now. Not only the new freedom, but more importantly, getting rid of the canon tiers and making it all a single level of canon where we can be certain that everything going forward will be consistent (for the most part, I don't expect it to be perfect) with one another without having to jump through hoops to explain inconsistencies, which was largely emblematic of the Lucasverse. The old stories still exist to be read and enjoyed, and one can still incorporate them into their own personal canon if they so wish.
  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    A more cynical view might be that they'll do to the new canon what they did to the old - discard it after a few years of telling us "it's canon".
  25. rdhight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 3

    I have a feeling that what is presented to us as "one level of canon" is going to come to resemble "everything's canon, until it's not." Sort of like the wall of a haunted house -- you have to tap on it to know if it's solid. Surely we have to think that somewhere inside Disney/Lucasfilm, there are people who know perfectly well that staying consistent with The Empire Strikes Back is a whole lot more important than a minor conflict with Season 5, Episode 6 of the Clone Wars. We're probably going to see that levels of canon still exist somewhere -- they just won't be shown to us.