TCW Season 2 Retrospective Thread (np: S02E20-22 The Boba Fett Trilogy)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, May 11, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    Or "Voyage of Anakin's Temptation to Have Another Martini"
  2. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    True, Obi-Wan never seemed to be remotely tempted throught the episode. He only ever got as as far as to admit that he once loved her deeply.
  3. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9
    He mostly just looked back on the past he had with Satine.
  4. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Here's the current history of the Mandalorians as I know it, for your convenience and entertainment:

    1. Mandalorians go around kicking ass and taking names as early as the KOTOR era.
    2. Subversive bloodthirsty group known as Death Watch emerges.
    3. At some point, the Mandalorians develop their very own language that is not Klingon, considering everyone else in KOTOR spoke Basic. ;)
    4. Pacifist group emerges, gets sick and tired of (conjecturally) constant warfare, warrior codes, conquest, being attributed to fandalorians and anti-Jedi sentiment, and makes their own political faction. They are hunted down by opposing forces, but survive partly due to Jedi intervention and protection.
    5. Pacifist group eventually becomes a large enough political entity that it survives, also due to the fact that it isn't singled out or decimated by civil war, infighting, or woefully misguided military groups.
    6. Civil war, infighting, and woefully misguided military groups single out and decimate the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch. They are reduced to a few individuals carrying their names and traditions, and one or two splinter factions hiding out on planets or asteroid stations. Most become mercenaries, trainers, or guns-for-hire.
    7. Due to exposure and numbers, the New Mandalorians finally get into the spotlight. In-universe, the presence of a growing neutral movement is a LOT more relevant than the day-to-day routines and traditions of bounty hunters and instructors.
    8. Tal Merrick wows a large number of users with his gleefully Joker-like approach to eeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiil. [face_devil] Then dies. :_|

    As I've often said, Voyage of Temptation is one of my all time favourites in the series. Very strong character work (we discover more about Satine, Obi-Wan, and Satine/Obi-Wan), tied together by great writing and dialogue, and some good action in-between. It's really nice to see these two strong, seemingly unflappable characters open up and show their more belligerent sides to one another.

    And of course, Tal Merrick. Gloriously played by Greg Proops. It's so hard to find a villain who takes such obvious pleasure in his work who isn't a) grossly overpowered and/or b) ridiculously cheesy, yet Merrick indulges in what he is, remains competent and dangerous, yet never seems to overstep his boundaries. His reactions to Obi-Wan and Satine were HILARIOUS. Whenever I find something to roll my eyes at now, I always use his exact tone and phrase of "I don't believe this." XD

    Great episode, one of my favourites of all time so far. This is the Innocents of Ryloth for Season 2, in my humble opinion.
  5. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    I won't argue that this is a good episode, but my personal favourite is Duchess of Mandalore. I love political commentary, and how that episode gives us both a satisfying as well as open conclusion.
  6. Mond Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2009
    star 3
    Too bad he's not around in ESB and AotC, eh? :D
  7. Lugija Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    Now I started to think Robot Chicken sketch.
    "You hate sand? Sir, I think I hate you.
    "We have time for anything else, I just get my bucket to be sick in. Dirty hands, I can't believe this..."

    Brilliant episode. I laughed aloud in Satine/Obi-Wan scenes (especially in the Martini scene), and when Anakin killed Merrick, I choked for a while, it was so... artistically done.
  8. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Let's move on to Duchess of Mandalore.

    My least favorite of the Mando arc, I believe I pretty much panned this when it first aired.

    Watching it again, it's not bad. The Senate scenes are fairly well done.

    I love the McQuarrie Century Park or whatever it's called in Coruscant, and the clandestine meeting was very well done.

    Nice little fight between Obi-Wan and the Mando, but I kinda wish Obi-Wan would just chop one of these guys in half for once. I think by now we've seen a suitable demonstration of his martial arts skills.

    Nice little touch where the bystander tells the cops where Satine is and they can't understand what he's saying. [face_laugh]

    It was literally laugh out loudable when the troopers and police droids were sauntering along trying to catch Satine. I hate stuff like that, why couldn't they just have started a bit further off or something?

    Finally, a nice touch where Obi-Wan shows a little naivete with the political climate when Satine tells him he won't be able to just walk in to the Senate without question.

    You get the feeling they're going to resolve the Death Watch/Satine arc in Season 3, because the conclusion to this arc really left me wanting some kind of closure.
  9. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Duchess of Mandalore is among my favourite episodes of season 2. We get a Mandalorian doing actual bounty hunter work (with so many bounty hunters in season 2, nobody saw one of them doing what they are supposed to do), that Mc Quarrie Coruscant Park, all the environment was great, overall, a nice and solid episode which let us waiting for the continuation in season 3.

    8.5/10
  10. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9
    This episode was alright. The story was decent. I liked the Palpatine plot to make it seem as if Republic intervention was needed. Had that type of "scandalous" feel to. We see tons of Senate business in the Star Wars universe, but no real "scandal." None that come to mind anyway, ther than Valorum. Anyway, the secret meetings the undergound information gathering gave the episode a gritty feel to it. Pretty good episode overall.
  11. Mond Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2009
    star 3
    This is the one with 3 or 4 Ithorians wandering around in every location, right?
  12. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    That's "Lightsaber Lost".
  13. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, but it's this one where the Ithorian is questioned by police, right?
  14. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    I always thought thisbwas an excellent episode. For the first time, Palpatine is revealed, kind of, to be evil. The political cobspiracy aspect was great. And the shots of the Seperatist fleet with the blue nebula in the background were beautiful.

    My only complaint is that the relationship betweeb Obi-Wan and Satine was pretty much ignored.

    9.5/10 for me. Great, but not as good as Voyage. A little better than Mandalore Plot.
  15. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Right.
  16. Season_3_Rules Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 2010
    This was probably the best Mandalore trilogy. I really am excited to see Satine and Mandalore again in Season 3.


    I didn't understand why Commander Fox, Stone, or Thire showed up, except those riot troopers.
  17. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Like I said in the original discussion thread, this is my all time favourite episode of Clone Wars so far. I love political intrigue, and this episode blew Senate Murders and Senate Spy out the window in terms of actual politics.

    The Coruscant Park scene was a great bit of animation, it was really great seeing concept art fully realized.

    What I really like is that, beneath the satisfying conclusion the episode gave us, reading into the subtext shows just how hollow a victory this really is. I mean sure, the Death Watch were thwarted and Satine still alive, but at a severe cost. Two government workers and a taxi pilot were murdered, and the Death Watch proved that they can strike anywhere. They've shown that they are actually working towards a goal, and the threat of terrorism is very real when dealing with them.

    I couldn't help but feel that despite the aversion of Republic troops, Mandalore is still in a desperate situation. They are refusing outside help, but the word upon which the motion was passed came from a dead man. I don't know how Mandalore will be able to contend with this terror group. Davu and Jerec were both murdered, the person behind the forged documents is still unaccounted for, and Satine's government took no action against the Death Watch camp, which they seem to be perfectly aware of. I still don't trust giraffe neck. When you listen to his conversation with the scout, their stance on the matter seems very ambiguous. They might be working with Death Watch for all we know.

    Again, Obi Wan and Satine have great chemistry together. Their bickering is far more entertaining to me than Satine's gushing in VOT. Her rant against Obi Wan in the Senate District was excellent, and even seemed to show some of Karen Traviss's anti Jedi sentiment in it.

    Though I agree that the tripping clones is silly, it doesn't detract any from the episode for me. I was far more interested in the political subtext. The Death Watch Assassin was a cool character. He might not have gotten the right shot, but he was still very dangerous. If his pride hadn't made him take pleasure in killing Satine, he might have done it, had Obi Wan not taken advantage of his gloating.

    The relation between the Death Watch and Dooku portrayed in this episode was great, set alongside an absolutely beautiful nebula shot. Dooku's conversation with Viszla showed us how Dooku has managed to manipulate the Death Watch into working for him. Viszla's only strength is his heritage, but is otherwise far better suited to be an underling. This amount of control that Dooku has gives me hope that we see more Death Watch forces working alongside other CIS elements.

    Also, a special mention must go to the final shot of the episode. Obi Wans comment that "things are changing" is really a strong indicator of what this show could become. It was a very well done scene, we get two people who have a very strong friendship standing side by side enjoying the respite, yet it also hints at the darkness to come. Its just a great scene that speaks more for itself than I can say.

    I love every last bit of this episode. Terrific politics, stunning animation, and a very strong conclusion to the Mandalore trilogy.
  18. fett51 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2008
    star 1
    The thing that struck me most in this episode is that it's the first time in Clone Wars we see the clonetroopers and the republic as a whole as antagonists, and we see Palpatine's direct involvement in the efforts to quash the Peace movement that threatens his consolidation of power. Much as Voyage of Temptation completely exceeded senate spy as a character piece, this blows senate spy and senate murders both out of the water in the politics department.

    The Death Watch assassin was decent, though I would've liked to have seen a bit more unique approaches to assassination from him given he's Mandalorian. "Make it look like an accident" and "sniping" are pretty standard :p

    I agree the ending did suffer a bit because they clearly want to continue this storyline later, hopefully wherever we pick up will be worth the flat ending for the trilogy.
  19. Asharak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 4
    I think this episode on its own is one of the very best of the series, but it completely fails as the climax of this trilogy. It?s such a slow episode, when structurally it really needed some kind of big action scene to round of the three parts. Looking past that the episode was really good, nice to have Mas Ameda in the series.
  20. FistoFan93 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2009
    star 4
    I agree completely. It really lacked tension, IMO. Also, the Coruscant streets were....fake. Of course that's a design problem (too few character models) but they should have taken that into consideration on before hand. Also really glad to see Mas Amedda, and I'm glad they portray him as a jerk.
  21. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    I thought the episode had lots of tension. Mandalore was going to be occupied, the Death Watch was ready to strike, and Satine was surrounded by enemies on both sides.
  22. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    I felt that the less than explosive ending was perfect for what they were trying to achieve. They wanted to show that the victory in this particular case was a hollow one at best. Sure Satine lives, but Death Watch is still on the loose, and Mandalore has refused any outside assistance. This might hold some dark implications for future episodes, which I hope Season 3 will expand on.
  23. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    ^^ I think you've hit the nail on the head. The reason why many people were underwhelmed by the Mandalorian arc is because they were expecting a battle royale between the Republic and Seperatists, when in reality the arc's purpose was to set up that battle for future seasons.

    The episodes succeded spectacularly in what they aimed to do: Make a character arc with a little action thrown in that would set the stage for future episodes. By the end of Duchess of Mandalore, the arc's plot was summed up nicely, but at the same time some aspects were left open for future episodes.

  24. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    The ending will work better if they return to Mandalore/Death Watch in Season 3, which it looks like they're doing.

    And now on to the mostly incredibly-boring Senate Murders.

    Having two fairly politics-heavy episodes in a row might not have been a good idea.

    Overall, not a lot to say about this. Don't really get what they were going for with Lieutenant Divo, I suppose kind of a Columbo-type detective?

    There wasn't any tension and quite frankly, I'm not convinced the episode made sense.

    Rewatched it for this thread, first time I've watched it since the premiere, highly doubt I will be watching it after this, except possibly once on the Blu-Ray player.
  25. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    It had some good tidbits (Phase II clone armor, Kamino being in the senate), and in my opinion, it's still better than Senate Spy.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.