TCW Season 2 Retrospective Thread (np: S02E20-22 The Boba Fett Trilogy)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, May 11, 2010.

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  1. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    I think the fortune cookies got better around the last couple of episodes. I especially liked the one that said something like 'what my father did isn't as important as who he was'. That was kind of different than the usual moral saying.

    But on the other hand, I think I got sick of hearing the newsreel narrator. Every show, it has to have that same voice explaining things.. I think I'd rather they just use main character's voices. Maybe sometimes do a 'previously, on The Clone Wars' thing.
  2. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    Agreed though my ears have yet to bleed. :p Personally, the best animated television scores were in Bruce Timm's DC Animated shows. The late Shirley Walker and her fellow composers created some of the most memorable themes for the smallest characters that perfectly fit their personality. This is very much what John Williams did with Star Wars. But Kiner's scores are just bland and inappropriate at times. Some of the DC Animated composers are still around and would raise the bar for Clone Wars' score.
  3. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I was going to say the same thing. In the beginning the narrator annoyed me becase it was very jarring and felt out of place. By the end of season one, however, I had got used to him and it no longer bothered me. But now, by the end of season two, the opening narration just started to grate on me. It's not only the boisterous voice, but what he says is always the same thing: Republic under attack, Separatists on the offensive, Jedi spread thin, clone troops overwhelmed... ok, we get it. And also, if I see again that same shot of the injured troops being carried into the gunship on Geonosis, I swear I'm going to scream. I'm pretty sure it was used in no less than four opening narrations.
  4. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Oh yes definitely this. The opening themes for Batman and Batman Beyond are terrific in comparison to the bland stuff that Kiner gives us.

    And with my discovery that Paul Dini worked on the Clone Wars, this would seem like a logical Idea.
  5. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    To me though it truly didn't get better. It kinda meandered between being entertaining and being a trainwreck, sometimes within the same episode, sometimes on a grander scale.

    Great, incredibly fun ideas like Terra Senube in Ligthsaber Lost were weighed down by characters turning, en mass, into Spiderman. Embo and his crew were awesome but really got somewhat overshadowed by the "epic" duel between Anakin and Hondo. All of the great work establishing Aurra Sing got kinda blasted when Ahsoka took down Slave-1 by herself.

    And don't even get me started about the amount of cool concepts and inclusions vs complete trash in the Mandalore Trilogy.

    Overall I was entertained, but still think I wanted something more. Season 1 overall was much better plot wise, but Season 2 had some ideas that trumped anything in Season 1. All this leaves me somewhat torn while hoping that Seaosn 3 will combine everything together and be the best yet.
  6. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    I don't see how you can say that. It seemed like 2/3 of the season two episodes had giant plot holes or in many cases didn't explain why characters were doing the things they did. It left a lot for the viewer to piece together for themselves... to much so. Sometimes, the episodes felt lazy or that they just did something and didn't think it through if it made sense or not (like, recently, Boba telling Mace to come get him and then not telling Mace where he was.) Personally, I would like to see a supervising writer who is there to catch these flaws. Someone who understands understands the term "story logic." It would also be nice to get someone who understands SW a little better. Not so much that the show plays exclusively for EU junkies, but someone who understands what made the OT work.

    And another thing: the problem with making so much of a show before you even start airing it, you just don't know if it works for the audience or not. You get caught up in it and lose sight of what's effective because you can't see clearly anymore having worked so closely on it.
  7. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I'd love to hear from Filoni & company how much is cut to make the 22-minute episodes.

    I would expect that part of the problem with a weekly half-hour show is that you just don't have a great deal of time to iron everything out.

    So some of the inconsistencies/sloppy writing could theoretically be there because they didn't have a chance for the continuity people to go through everything with a fine-tooth comb.
  8. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Dave Filoni explains precisely that on the latest Forcecast. He said that was one of the reasons for the quick talk between Mace and Boba at the end of Lethal Trackdown. He also said they had to cut 45 seconds of footage on that episode so that it could fit the 22min.

    Lately, I've been watching all the episodes (from Season One and Two, including the movie) in production order, and it's amazing the little details that makes us see how the animation improves from one episode to another. "The Zillo Beast Strikes Back" was perfect on how the wind and movement affects the clothes, and could give us a big hint on what to expect for Season Three.
  9. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    I agree. If it were possible to make it into an hour long episode, I would be much happier. Unfortunately, this would be nearly impossible to reconcile with their current release schedule. I would willingly wait two weeks between episodes if it meant I got to see a more complete and polished final product.
  10. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    Maybe. They should have these kinks worked out by now, you would think!

    We really need a great "making of" book to give us some insight on the writing process and difficulties of making this show.
  11. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    That Fortune Cookie was my favorite from this season.

    About the Newsreel Narrator. I know what they wanted to achieve and I think it works, but at this point I think Rex being the narrator, talking as if he's giving a post event wrap up might be more exciting. For missions he wouldn't be on they could use another Clone Trooper's voice. They could do the same with Ahsoka for episodes that focus on her.
  12. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    I'd very much like other voices for the narrator. However, I note that at some points the Narrator seems to possess the power of third-person omniscience, as he's aware of things like plots, Cad Bane or Darth Sidious. I'm not sure how in-universe he'd be allowed to be. :confused:
  13. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    Well, in the TCW preview special aired on CN before the show was aired, they had a clip of an opening which had Yoda as the narrator. He was speaking like it was after the war. ("Before the Empire, there was a state of war...something like that.)

    That would be nice, and it wouldn't have to be in=universe. It could be like the Decoded episodes where the character is talking, but it is non-canon.
  14. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I'm sure you're right, however, I still can't see how nobody on the team remembered that Anakin already met Jango on Geonosis. That whole conversation with Mace made no sense at all. How can such a huge mistake be left in with so many people working on those episodes? You don't need a fine-tooth comb for a plothole the size of a galaxy. That's just really bad writing. I mean come on, you don't have to know all the EU stuff, but you have to know the movies.

    So much for that though.

    I've said it before, but I'll do it again; I agree with the notion that the first half (for me including the Mandalore trilogy) was superior to the second half of season 2, which had many episodes that didn't really focus on the war, and lots of overt homages that got really tiresome.

    I'm still thinking the same about season 1, although for different reasons... After all this time I still like the first half of season 1 better than the second half.
  15. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Season 2 had a few awesome episodes and for a little while i almost got my hopes up but there were soooo many unwanted, unnecessary and in some cases just plain stupid episodes. Why do they waste time with these "one offs" that have nothing to do with the war or palpatines evil plot? TCW is supposed to be something to follow from week to week but instead its just a brand new totally random, made up on the fly, one shot episode every time that has NOTHING to do with any of the episodes that came before it or after it.

    Why couldn't they give us a good, suspenseful 3 part story line to end this season with? Instead they through boba fett at us and his first episode was passable, his 2nd practically didn't even have anything to do with him and his 3rd made him look like a chump/punk kid being sent to the principals office to receive detention at the end. I mean COME ON!!!! I have been absolutely mystified and totally sucked into his dark,sad story since 2002 when i saw his father get killed by a jedi in front of him. Since 2002 i have waited to see him get revenge on mace or the jedi order in ***some way***ANY WAY***. Since 2002 i have waited to see SOME KIND of clever little story get cooked up for him in any modest, practical way. Im not a greedy man i swear to god im not, i understand that boba couldn't be the one to kill mace, i understand that there really isn't even any room for him in the clone wars and i dont even care if he never got revenge at all but instead this is what they made happen...

    1.)jangos helmet gets blown up
    2.)slave 1 gets trashed by ASOKA OF ALL CHARACTERS!!! THEY MINE AS WELL HAVE HAD JAR JAR BE THE ONE TO TRASH IT.
    3.)boba gets arrested, looks the man who killed his father in the eye and says..."you started!"

    The boba fett trilogy was a 10000% failure. The only thing about it that i liked was that for a while he was raised by fellow bounty hunters and scum an villainy but even that story idea was carried over (stolen) from the (highly HIGHLY superior) young adult boba fett books...and then they destroyed it by having aurra sing be defeated, slave one trashed by one of the most hated and annoying plot hole characters since jar-jar binks and then having boba get arrested only to FINALLY,FINALLY come face to face with mace windu and say "...you started".


    Im sorry folks...words can not express the disappointment.

    There were some very good episodes this season and some things definitely got better from season 1 but if we keep having incidents like the boba fett trilogy then idk if this show is even worth it. I said my peace. [face_peace]
  16. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Obi-rob-kenobi4, I can already tell that you and I are going to have some very, shall we say, "polarizing" perspectives on certain matters...
  17. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    This is where the fun begins...
  18. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    I vote that we turn 'This is where the fun begins' into the new 'I've got a bad feeling about this'. It'll last us for a season. :p
  19. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Indeed.:p
  20. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Ahsoka is a polarizing figure, to be sure.

    Then again, so was Hayden Christensen and we survived that. :)
  21. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4

    I was kind of harsh in my post so let me just say that i have never really had any problem with ahsoka (or jar-jar for that matter) and i do like her character (and jar-jar) just fine. Its just that i felt insulted because well...she beat slave one and arrested the mighty, legendary boba fett. I feel as though it was a copout to make ahsoka seem 'cooler" to young fans, while at the same time spitting in the face of fans that have been fans since the 70's.

    Let me put it this way...i also love R2-D2, i love him just as much (if not MORE) than anyone else and i love that he can beat super battle droids and such BUT i would be just as mad if they made a character like him fight AND DEFEAT slave one and aura sing, ya know what i mean? Its like that.

    That being said i love this show and i love season two...im just very disappointed and let down by the boba fett trilogy.[face_peace]
  22. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I think I mentioned in the "Artoo Come Home" thread that I think they're starting to go a little too far with Artoo's heroics, although Lucas already started that slippery slope in the AOTC Droid Factory scene.


    With respect to the Mace/Anakin conversation about Boba Fett, it was terrible exposition and was obviously there for anyone who hadn't seen AOTC.

    If he wasn't speaking to Anakin but to another Jedi who wasn't on Geonosis, or even a Republic officer, it would have been bearable.

    However, the question is whether or not it was worse than the "Master Qui-Gon sir, I was wondering: what are midichlorians?" :rolleyes:
  23. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Which is just a kid, at the time.

    Why not blame Plo Koon for the arrest of Boba and the rest?
  24. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    I don't see why some people are so upset that Slave 1 was destroyed, I mean the way it looks in ESB makes it seem it has had better days.:p
  25. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I don't see the problem with the Slave I crashing either. The ship we saw in Ep5 is obviously a bit different from the Ep2 one. It crashed, and was fixed, just like the Millenium Falcon must have been several times. We even saw the Twilight crashing and coming back.
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