Full Series TCW Season 2 Retrospective Thread (np: S02E20-22 The Boba Fett Trilogy)

This was the point in the season where the homages began to turn into ripoffs, and it sort of lost its footing. Trench, while a good character design, felt too much like Mar Tuuk, albeit with a better accent.

I dunno, I just felt like this episode was unnecessary. Its alright I suppose, but we've seen Christophsis so much that it fell flat. I was hoping for a major fleet engagement, but I got Hunt For Red October in SPAAAAAACE!!!! instead. Bail Organa was completely pointless to the episode, only there to provide cheap references so they can say "look! It's just like the original trilogy! Love all the references?"

No, I don't, at least not when they are jammed down our throats being so bloody obvious.

I echo Garth's sentiments, I didn't enjoy this part of the season as much. I can't even remember a bunch of the episodes right now, apart from Godzill- I mean Zillo Beast.

 

I don't get all the hate towards this episode. I thought it was one of the best overall. For starters, seeing a space battle is always nice. The cloaking ship was great. Too often SW writers forget that a superweapon doesn't always have to be a planet-destroying cannon. I'm looking at you Tom Veitch and Kevin J. Anderson! It was also interesting that the weapon was in the hands of the heroes.

Trench had an okay model and voice. His strength lied in his character. He was the brilliant commander this show needs. I loved how he was genuinely threatening. And, for perhaps the first time, the villIain didn't run away. He calmly accepted death in one of the most bad@$$ scenes in the series.

The story was great, the editing created lots of tension. There were lots of great shots, like the interior of the cloaking ship and the bombing of the Republic base. A solid 10/10 IMHO.

 

I have to agree. Not badass, but great.

 

Yes, Trench was great for 22 minutes. Another wasted Separatist commander.

It was cool I suppose to have the good guys have the cloaking device, but I also wish we really saw how great Trench was as a commander.

 

I liked Trench, but I was pretty underwhelmed by this episode. My initial reaction was annoyance at some of the tactics - that shields suddenly take forever to recharge, the lack of fighters, that Trench didn't fire lasers on Anakin when his tactic became apparent. Also, why did anakin not simply fly up to Trench's bridge and blast it at the outset? Past that, it was a submarine episode with a bit of Wrath of Khan thrown in. It's not bad, but I felt like I'd seen it all before.

 

I feel exactly the same way about Season 2. The only episodes at the level of the first half were Cat and Mouse and Lethal Trackdown. The others in the second half were mostly okay, but not nearly on par with the others.

 

Let's keep the ball rolling. Onto Bounty Hunters

Apart from Hondo and Embo, there is really nothing in this episode that warrants a rewatch. It is a shameless, nearly note for note retread of the Seven Samurai. I don't care if Star Wars was inspired by Kurosawa's epic, I want to watch Star Wars, not different movies played out with action figure versions of Star Wars characters.

Complete waste of time. Season takes a nose dive into ripoffs, badly thought out episodes, and the most wasted character arc in the whole series.

The only good thing to come out of these last few episodes are the few Hondo scenes, and Zillo's rampage through Coruscant.

 

Completely agree

 

More or less.

 

Bounty Hunters was a waste of time, in my opinion. It was most likely the "bounty hunter" episode of the season, and it was just not good. Poorly written and just catered to the season two endless homages.

One thing that was just horrible was the Anakin vs Hondo fight. Honestly, Anakin could have easily defeated him the moment they engaged one and another. Anakin could have killed Hondo, when the latter was about to fall over the cliff.

 

It almost seemed like, "hey, we are almost done, let's just get this over with." With some of these late season episodes. Bounty Hunters might have been a good episode, but they dropped the ball......again.

 

[luke]I'm with you too![/luke]

One of the worst episodes of all time.

Embo, Sugi and Hondo ALMOST make it worth watching. Contrary to whatever GG claims, Embo captures the mystique of, dare I say it, an early Boba Fett? Sugi was a decent bounty hunter leader, I like her grounded view of everything.

Let's see, what else? Oh, I like the "ejection seat spheres", that was a clever touch.

Laughably bad how they're piloting some random ship other than The Twilight because they get shot down.

Didn't really like the "potato head" model of the aliens. Or, natives. Whatever they are.

 

I certainly don't find this episode to be bad. It's ok-good and enjoyable. But it could have been great if it didn't have such a weak beginning and ending. What makes the episode is the bounty hunter team. Sugi and Embo are really cool characters for their own different reasons.

 

Bounty Hunters was an ok episode. The only parts that stand out to me are Anakin saving Hondo and any scenes with Embo. Overall 3.5/5

 

ILuvJarJar, you have the most interesting ranking of the Saga films.

Anyway, back to business.

The problem with this episode is that we were dealing some great arcs and mini-arcs, and it followed Senate Murders and Cat and Mouse. At this point, it would be nice to have an episode that meant something.

 

Yup, It's probobly because I grew up with only the PT, I never had an OT until later on.

Back on topic, I also didn't like the natives of Felucia and that they couldn't fight, it seemed a little to "Jedi Crash" and "Defenders of Peace".

 

Oh, Garth, I only mentioned why Hondo was meh in the episode.
Embo was okay, but Sugi?

 

If you watched the Ask Dave video where he talks about Rumi's fate, he says that a ton of the arcs and storylines had to be cut down or done away with completely to fit into the 22 minute time slot. Another reason why I would choose hour long bi-weekly episodes over the regular format.

 

Wait, how was Bail an obvious, forced down your throat OT reference? He wasn't even in the OT!
Actually, I quite like he was in the episode:
1. It was important to the plot: his dire straights were the main reason they couldn't just turn around and run away...and served as a good source of tension between Obi-Wan, who prioritized getting the supplies to Bail, and Anakin, who prioritized eliminating the enemy before helping in other ways. Just goes to show their different approaches to being jedi.

2. The Organas are famous in universe for their mercy missions and the risks they take to help people. Except, we have never seen it before, and it is very nice to actually see it here.

Well, now that I poo-pooed someone else's opinion, I guess I should give my own to be picked apart:

Cat and Mouse and Bounty Hunters were easily amongst the strongest clone wars episodes, in my opinion.

Ok, C&M first:
1. It was something that was rather lacking from Clone Wars for a long time: A genuine game of wits. Not the best ever by a long shot, but an entertaining example none the less, certainly better than the incredibly straight foreward rush-at-each-with-no-cover strategy we are used to seeing in this show.
2. A nice reversal of the submarine vs destroyer genre to have the submarine be the good guy and win.
3. A welcome extension of the Christophis story in my opinion. It makes sense to me that you drive off your enemies' space ship before you can land troops.
4. Despite his short time on the show, I felt that Trench had an interesting characterization. Not as openly arrogant or cruel as most CIS commanders, he never the less was not afraid to draw out Anakin by attacking Bail, and was bit too eager to go on the attack.
Most of all, the simple act of his last scene, just closing his eyes and calmly accepting death, added quite a bit for what was just a fleeting moment of screentime. The way in which one faces death says a lot about the kind of person one is.
5. Pretty explosions...what can I say, I am a simple man.

Bounty Hunters...one of my favorites actually. Very few pack so much character into one episode.
1. Felucia itself was a nice place to see. We visited it before, but only very briefly. It was very enjoyable to bask in the alien scenery for a longer peroid of time and get a feel for the place.
2.The design of the bounty hunters themsevles. From Seripias' pharonic battlesuit to Embo's vaguely eastern hat and robe to Rumi's creepy, whispy form to Sugi's simple tanktop and topnot...each one was visually appealing and well suited to each character's abilities and personality.
3. The dynamic of good bounty hunters in the series. Bounty Hunters had, at this point, been unfailingly villainous. In the show, you were either a die hard Republic loyalist, a peacenick, or a greedy villain. It was nice to see people who weren't loyal to the Republic, and who did care about money...and were still good people who stuck to their word and stuck up for those in need.
4. The Bounty Hunter-Jedi tension..or at least the Obi-Wan/Sugi tension. As someone raised on selflessness, duty and without property, his contempt and mistrust of those who fight for cash is clear. As far as he is concerned, they are scammers little better than the pirates. And as far as she is concerned, the jedi are little more than head in the cloud, self-righteous fools, out of touch with the world, and no good to anyone. After all, she is there to help, and he just wants to leave ntil he is left with no choice.
Perhaps I waxing philosophical too much, but it can be hard to explain things some times.
5. Good battle scene. Exciting, and there is genuine tension over which of the Bounty Hunters were going to live and which were going to die...frankly, I was expect all the Bounty Hunters to go.
6. Hondo makes a good villain. Friendly, funny...and yet still ruthless and threatening. Still, not all that great standing alone, but if you take into account the other episodes with him...Hondo is a remarkably flexible character. He can easily be a villain as he

 

I agree, I enjoyed Bounty Hunters immensely. It's not an epic or exceptional storyline, but as far as filler goes, it's very good, and can be a breath of fresh air that's actually welcome. You've got a conflict outside the war, a pretty exotic planet by comparison, and a 'different' sort of antagonist to confront. If I had been watching a bunch of Republic vs. Separatist plots, I think this would be just the episode I'd pick for a different flavour. The bounty hunters were a nice band with interesting possibilities, though Rumi's voice grated on me...it sounded too much like a Malaysian mangling English, and I should know, because I'm from Malaysia. XD

I also think that Hondo WOULD have some luck against Anakin because:
1. He's not the leader of his band for nothing and might have experience against swordsmen
2. He's fighting on a tank's uneven footing and has the tank itself
3. Anakin, while darker than your average Jedi, isn't exactly at 'take no prisoners, kill everyone' mode, at least not in this episode. I suppose capturing Hondo and forcing a surrender was a practical possibility
4. Hey, he's got a monkey lizard and it can pilot a tank. What more do you need?
My only grip with the fight is that when it came down to actual clashing, it seemed a little too even. I think it might have benefited from a few shots of Hondo visibly troubled during the fight, or having a little difficulty keeping up.

Also, Embo carries off 'unintelligible yet understood proud warrior race guy' quite well and he gets sweet action.

What I'm wondering, though, is whether Sugi's band shares her code of honour when taking jobs. We see a shot of Embo beside a Weequay in one of the season 3 trailers, not sure if he's in Hondo's crew or not...wonder what that could mean?

 

Bounty Hunters was okay. It was good, as far as filler homages go. The characters were all interesting, except Seripas, whose "revelation" was about as forced as they come.

The action was relatively good. The Anakin/Hondo fight however...

6.5/10

 

I think most of the episodes throughout the season were at a pretty high level of quality, particularly in comparison to season 1. What really makes the second half seam a bit subpar IMHO is the fact that the episodes (except Cat and Mouse) had nothing to do with the Clone Wars, and because of that it feels rather trivial.

I think the biggest flaw of all was that the season ended with the young Bobba trilogy. The episodes themselves were really good, but the scale wasn?t big enough to be the ending of the season. When I think of season 2, I always feel it started with a bang, but then the tension seamed to just fizzle off. S1 started with the epic Malevolence trilogy and ended with the Battle of Ryloth trilogy, it felt like we were shown really important parts of the war. S2 ended with a whiny 12 year old trying and failing, again and again, to kill a character we know wont die, for three episodes in a row. Ugh, talk about a lack of tension.

 

Ha ha ha, yes sir!

The Bail reference ("Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!") is just idiotic. It's simply a father parroting what his daughter says 25 years later and doesn't make any sense! They're beating our heads over this "cool" connection to the OT.

Here's an example of a more subtle reference: Yularen saying "no, shut them all down!" in Children of the Force. I'm guessing that many SW fans probably missed the reference.


With respect to Bounty Hunters, as I said, part of its problem was following the extremely boring Senate Murders and Cat and Mouse. But as Zandalor pointed out, it's a note-for-note "homage" to Kurosawa. I guess if you haven't seen Seven Samurai before, this episode might have been more entertaining, but again, this was taking an homage over into "complete ripoff" territory and was a waste of time.

EDIT: One thing I did like was the debate between the Jedi about what was the "right" thing to do. Kenobi was "right" in that it was important for them to get off-planet to continue their mission, but Ahsoka was "right" in that they should help the farmers. You begin to see why the war was so difficult for the Jedi.

Let's move on to The Zillo Beast.

I know Gry and I were predicting dire consequences for this episode, god was it going to suck. It actually turned out to be pretty decent.

First of all, let's talk about how good this one and the sequel LOOKED. Just gorgeous.

Loved the first 5 minutes - the EMP weapon was cool, and such a great little touch to have Anakin's hand malfunction.

I also thought the debate about what to do with such an outrageous creature was well-handled, and portrayed much more clearly than, say, the pacifism "debate" in the Jedi Crash duology.

At least this episode, even if it was an "homage" to Godzilla, felt like it was in the Clone Wars.

And we got to see manipulating Palpatine, which is always fun.

 

No, I have to argue this:

How is the second reference any more subtle at all? They are both just repeating lines. I also fail to see how Bail's line doesn't make sense, given his circumstances.

And seriously, Bounty Hunters being a note-for-note rip off...I just don't understand that. Yeah, there are seven dudes protecting a village from criminals. That is only the basic plotline, which has been repeated in countless way, I could think of a number of differences. The seven are not recruited in the same way, none of the seven falls in love with a villager, there is no plotline about stealing the enemies gun (or tank in this case), the number of deaths aren't right, the is no distrust between the seven and the villagers while the seven themselves dislike each other more, the number of deaths aren't correct...


Honestly, I am curious what they could have done to be a homage instead of a rip off in your eyes.

Anyway...Zillo beast. I liked the opening battle, and the design of the creature itself is impressive (we should see more trilateral symmetry I think) as were the various Dug military units....other than that, I thought the episode was kind of dull...very slow going. Additionally, I am not sure why just one of the species survived for so long, why everyone was so sure it was the last (if it survived undetected, then who knows how many live beneath the surface), why they couldn't just leave it in the whole, or how something so big survived underground....

 

I think the main problem with the use of the "only hope" line, is that it is about the most prominent, well known Star Wars quote. You just can't make a subtle reference with it. Things like "shut them all down", "this is where the fun begins" or "you're gonna get us both killed", are fairly minor lines, which a fan will pick up as a throwback line, but if used well can feel like part of the new scene. You just can't get away with it the same way with lines like "Help me, you're my only hope", "I am your father" or "I find your lack of faith disturbing".


PS: "bad feeling about this" is another story, since it's meant to be repeated in every installment.