Telika exei plaka na miseis to STAR WARS

Discussion in 'Greece' started by Obi_one_and_only, Dec 23, 2004.

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  1. Starkeiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2004
    star 4
    "Gianakin, ena exo na sou po: get a life! Ego exo mono to:
    O.T. V.H.S., S.E. V.H.S., 4 C.D. soundtrack me vivliaraki, soundtrack to S.E., soundtrack to T.P.M., ki allo sountrack to T.P.M., soundrack tou A.o.t.C. (ti malakotrimmenos titlos... ), Count Dooku Unleashed figure, Palp figure, kamia 40aria posters, Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 2, Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, Ep. I Racer, K.o.t.O.R. I, M.o.t.S..
    Ego omos ksero tin alitheia, Esi zeis mes sto psema!"

    A, oraia! Giati, loipon, den vrizete ki emena pou, ap' oti diavazo, prepei na eimai o protathlitis skasimatos frangon ston Lucas, stin Ellada! Emeis ta koiroida ftaime pou t' agorazoume! Vrizete, vrizete! ;)
  2. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Vasika, den ta skeftomai ego. Eimai poli xazoulis ( ;) ) gia na do to skoteino sxedio tou Luca$ na mas roufiksei ta lefta sa vdela me aftes tis malakies pou legontai PT aki SE kai DVD editions.
    Afta ta katalavainoun oi agbnoi filoi tou star wars.

    Exo ena link pio pano. Apo ekei ta pairno ta quotes.


    As for Star Wars, the argument against CGI is, for me, very simple: the cure is worse than the disease. People complain about things like matte boxes or face slugs or wacky lightsaber effects. Fine. But when you point to the "proper way to to it" as CGI, you are out of your freaking mind. That's the whole point of my CGI round-ups: the very effects that are supposed to be improvements over the models, composites etc often are much, much worse. This too without getting into the whole control-freak "I want a cast made entirely from CGI so I own all the characters forever and they never age, demand royalties, or give non-loving media interviews about me" thing that spawned Jar Jar. The only "flaws" that people typically point to for the OT are the effects, which some claim need to be fixed. And then you look at all the innumerable instances of bad or implausible CGI work in the PT and it just boggles the mind. I'd rather Luke wear a wobbly Yoda Backpack than see Yoda turning cartoonish handstands. I'd rather see a poorly scaled Super Star Destroyer go up like a roman candle than watch a bunch of lumbering "Federation" ships crash back to earth in a spray of CGI grit after they're zapped by CGI clone ray guns. Then there's real unintended consequence, where to provide room for all the bluescreening, sets are reduced to minimalist nightmares and actors come across as wooden marionettes, trying desperately to navigate invisible barriers and interact with imaginary characters that have more screen time than they do. In short, plot and characters are jettisoned in favor of "better" effects, which are in fact nothing of the sort.

    But hey, if cartoon characters are your thing, go nuts. Clonetroopers: They Only Look Fake Most Of The Time (TM).

    Spielberg didn't saw that coming, I agree, but I recall him watching TPM in a private viewing and stating that "your chin is gonna fall on the ground". Actually, I remember the interview:

    Reporter: "So, what about your friend, George Lucas? His new Star Wars comes out this summer".
    Spielberg: "I watched it already and the only thing I can say is "Oh, my God"!"
    Reporter: "Oh, my God-bad" or "Oh, my God-good"?
    Spielberg: "I mean "Oh, my God, your chin is gonna fall on the ground"! I don't plan to release any of my movies 2 weeks before or after Episode:I is released".

    Now that I think of it, he didn't said if it was good or bad, he only said "your chin is gonna fall to the ground".

    Hehe, I can imagine many people here in the Sanctuary searching for their chin in the movie theatre after the end credits!


    I was just given STAR WARS Ewok Adventures the only unchanged Star Wars on DVD for Christmas by mail.

    I will be watching Caravan of Courage on Saturday and The Battle for Endor on Sunday.

    Having skimmed a few chapters and having seen the Trailer for Revenge of the Ner...I mean Sith. I feel that I will see more enjoyable Star Wars this Weekend then I will see in May.


    Changing the Classics is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars!
    Yoda with a lightsaber is still wrong.!

    We get to see the crappy AOTC Je/>
  3. gianakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 3
    Afou einai malakas o tipos!Prota klevei ton Tolkien kai meta exei kai moutra na vgalei kai alla Star Wars tin idia epoxi pou o theos tis skinothesias Peter Jackson vgazei tin ipertati trilogia olon ton epoxon,ton Arxonta!
    Sigkrinoume kai tis douleis metaksi tous?Alloste mi apo tis 1es epaggelmatikes douleies tou Jackson itan to me noima kai tromera poiotiko Braindead,eno tou malaka tou Lucas to anousio THX 1138.Ntropi tou!
  4. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Had Lucas actually written a character for Maul instead of turning him into a cool-looking throwaway character, he'd have worked well as a villain throughout the PT. Build up some sort of ongoing antagonism between Maul and Anakin, and have it finally hit its peak in Episode II or III when Anakin turns to the dark side in order to beat him. THEN you've got something.

    Developing him might have killed some of the other lazy details like the Rule of Two thing. (I hate that.) How about a freelance Sith? No master, no connection to Sidious/Palpatine--at least not so obvious and not revealed so soon. And have the Council do more than yawn at the mention of him. The Sith were bad operators in the bad old days (it's implied they were), and just one on the loose should cause more concern


    Alla eipame, o Luca$ einai enas pseftis tempelis. Pou na vrei mia prototipi idea. Midichlorians, sillipsi xoris antra (ase pou prosvalei kai ti thriskeia etsi). Ti na po... [face_plain]

    It would have been a mercy killing. That whole "rule of two" thing was such a useless story restriction, and so far it's served no purpose other than to eliminate the possibility of a full-on Jedi/Sith war in favor of... well, an anemic little Jedi/Roger-Roger war. Far better to develop Maul as a character whose arc spans all three prequel films than to preserve this silly "always two there are, no more, no less" goofery.


    Kai ego afto tha ekana.

    I'm talking about the obvious game of "We need more hot chicks in this show, or marketing will kick our asses. Well, a dangerous-seeming hot chick is always ****-tastic.


    Koitakste, o Luca$ evale tin Natalie, giati tou arese na tin exei sta podia tou. Evale to Jackson, giati se mia sinentefksi eipe oti tha eithele na einai sto STAR WARS. AMa kanei tetoia, perimeneis na vgei kali tainia? :mad:

    "TPM - it has all the charm of a Mcdonalds Happy Meal."

    Well, at least with a Happy Meal you are a bit more full afterwards. With the PT, you become more empty inside, and you leave the theatre checking your person because you feel like someone has stolen your wallet, your intellect, and your soul.


    Kleveis kai psixes o Luca$!. Mpas kai einai kanenas diaolos?


    Mellontikes ekdoseis LotR

    ALla eipame, allo Luca$ pou vgazei pornevmenes ekdoseis tia agapimenis mou tainias, kai allo Jackson.

    "I don't want to add more footage," Jackson says. "There's as much in there as we want. Eventually you are just going to go backward and weaken the films."


    Finally! Someone who gets it!

    *loves Peter Jackson even MORE*


    Agapoula mou!! :* [face_batting]


    Actually... seeing the deleted stuff in Empire of Dreams lowered my respect for George Lucas as a film-maker (beyond TPM and AOTC even, if you can imagine that)... it's utter garbage.

    Eipame: Ego tha to ekana kalitera! Min epanalamvanomaste. Ante mi ta paro edo mesa!


    Midichlorians have been disastrous since their arrival as a casual aside in TPM (man- that film is like a freakin' Noah's Ark of bad ideas). They don't add value to anything, and automatically kick up a ****storm of breathless rationalization whenever they show up. That LFL etc. seem now to be basically backing off them and/or ignoring their import is of no surprise to me whatsoever.

    Both the midichlorians and Yoda are already well into over the top Dragonball Z territory. Exhibit A: My icon. In fact, I think there's even an old episode where a bunch of little green people fly around counting the power levels of other people. And then presumably doing triple backflips or something. Maybe Lucas is channeling cheesy 80s and 90s anime. Not much else left to rip of-er pay homage to.



    He ripped off Campbell's storyline to the very last detail. It is completely systematic. That's what the heck Campbell's WHOLE LIFE WORK WAS BASED ON, all great stories and myths are based on a systematic approach with different color.

    Agree totally. Even Padme being a queen
  5. gianakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 3
    Re si obiWan,iparxoun polla MALAKISTIRIA stin Gi.Re si,pos tin exei dei o kathenas tous kai elilikrina,ti nomizei oti tha kerdisei me ton gkriniazei san paparas kai na klAIGETAI?o KLAPSOMOUNIS!
  6. Starkeiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2004
    star 4
    "If I were Lucas, here's what I would have done, in order:

    1. Release the O.T. on D.V.D.

    2. Make a list from the OT of everything that had to happen in the prequels.

    3. Write out one-page synopses of each prequel.

    4. Hire the best script-writers in the business to turn the synopses into stellar scripts.

    5. Hire the best producer and director money can buy. I'll swallow my pride and call Kurtz and Kershner and offer them the jobs. Remember E.S.B.?

    6. Do some real casting. Not this "Sam Jackson said on the Tonight Show that he'd like to be in S.W., so I think I'll make him a Jedi master" crap. Not the Jake Lloyd crap. Not the "I'll hire Natalie Portman because I like to stare at her" crap. Etc.

    7. Send scouts all over, and I mean all over, the world looking for actual locations in which to shoot the movies. Laugh in the face of every computer geek who wanted to design CG sets. Nai, esena ennoei

    8. Hire Ralph McQuarrie to do the designs. Laugh in the face of every young geek who wanted the job.Nai, pali esena ennoei

    9. Sit back and be M.-r. Moneybags. Let the team assembled do their work of making all three movies at the same time. Do nothing more than occasionally peak over their shoulders and write them checks.

    10. When the movies are completely shot and edited, then let John Williams score them. Don't do any editing AT ALL after they are scored.

    11. Release them one year apart in three consecutive Mays.

    Of course, all the above would means Lucas actually cares. What did we get instead? Lucas hired a bunch of young, geeky nobodies (Pali esena leei, to eipame!) and said, "Make up all kinds of stuff." Then he'd waddle in and casually say, "I like this one," then wander off to make life hell for the CGI guys: "Why don't you change the angle of Yoda's ear in this shot?", et-c."

    HAHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Hilarious!!! [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] Re, pou na tous parei o diaolos, skeftondai prin ta grapsoune ola afta? Afto itan to kalytero! Obi, fere mas ki alla! Mou ftiahnoun tin mera afta! :D
  7. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Why don't you change the angle of Yoda's ear in this shot?

    Edo pou ta leme, oi tipoi stin ILM den prosexoun ti leptomereia. Afti xoris lera, ginetai? :p


    Re si obiWan,iparxoun polla MALAKISTIRIA stin Gi.Re si,pos tin exei dei o kathenas tous kai elilikrina,ti nomizei oti tha kerdisei me ton gkriniazei san paparas kai na klAIGETAI?o KLAPSOMOUNIS!

    gianakin, eilikrina den ksero. Iparxoun kapia pramata sto star wars pou me enoxloun. Oloi vriskoun kapia pramatou pou tous enoxloun, alla den kanoun les kaio kosmos teleionei... [face_plain]
  8. gianakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 3
    Re malaka,koitaga kapoies selides sto link kai aftoi den kseroun pols legetai o planitis ton Wookiees!Ton lene ~Wookiee planet~kai tolmane kai ekferoun apopsi!!!
  9. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Kalitera wookie panet, para Kashyyk, etsi filarako, etsi, ETSI!!!!! :mad:
    To Kashyyk einai malakia onoma eipame.

    [face_laugh]


    - Luke, you switched off the targeting computer. What?s wrong?

    - Nothing. I?m all right.

    But Lucas seems to have forgotten all about this. Now he is fully dependent on Computer Generated Images like no other director before him. I would have laughed at the irony if it wasn?t so sad. Lucas has very much become like the Emperor in the OT. I think Lucas doesn?t see how soulless and CGI-infested the PT is. Thirty years ago he pointed to the problem of alienation and industrialization in society, and today he has become a part of the problem. Greed kills your soul like nothing else.
    For that reason I cannot take anything Lucas says seriously anymore. His anti-slavery and anti-racism messages never feel genuine. They seem to have been added as an afterthought more than anything else. This is especially obvious since these issues are only touched upon in TPM, and not in AOTC or ROTS (I presume). It would have been a lot better if these issues had been recurring themes throughout the PT. But as it is now Lucas seems to handle them as forgettable issues without giving them a second thought.
    Strangely enough the first draft of TPM puts a far greater weight on the whole symbiosis issue than the shooting script. The relationship between the Naboo and the Gungans is far more pronounced than in the film, where the problem is only hinted at. I guess Lucas did not want to steal away the audience?s attention from the shiny CGI, the bloodless cartoon battles and the fart jokes.
    And that brings me to the final point: namely the immoral side of the PT. So far the PT has been very much anti; it?s anti-racism, anti-corporate, anti-slavery, anti-imperialism, anti-separatism, et cetera. And I?m fine with all that, aside from the fact that it is told in such a poor manner. Messages such as these should be handled with subtlety, and not be thrown in your face repeatedly, like the whole anti-slavery issue (poor, poor Anakin). It?s painfully obvious that subtlety isn?t one of Lucas? strengths. I?m not asking for much, I just wanted Lucas to cover it up a little better. Symbolism and messages shouldn?t be so blatantly obvious. They should be buried in the depths of the film; if it?s told in such a superficial manner as it is now, it means there is nothing behind the veil of the story. The message is the very heart of a film, and it should be handled delicately, and not to be flashed in your face repeatedly. That?s just boring. A ten year old could have handled the whole issue on slavery better than Lucas.
    Anyway, aside from the fact that the message in TPM is handled in such a sloppy manner, I noticed that everything in the PT is anti-this, anti-that. No positive alternatives are suggested, and this is quite possibly Lucas? w/>
  10. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    An afta edo sas aresoun, perimenete na vgei to ROTS. Ekei na deite ti exoume na doume/akousoume/diavasoume!



    Now that?s what I call drama! It takes Palpatine 20+ years to become supreme chancellor of the galaxy. So what does this ?master manipulator? use all the extra time for? It seems as if Palpatine is just as lazy as Lucas. For all we know Palpatine might have spent decades in the senate before he began to set his plans in motion. That?s not very dramatic. And think that Hitler didn?t even use the Force to manipulate people. Hitler is the true master of evil, and his fictional copycat is just an amateur in comparison.
    I have always thought that fiction should surpass reality in terms of dramatic events, but apparently Lucas is of another mind. Fiction needs a dramatic edge to keep things interesting. But in the PT we have a lot of scenes where people sit down and discuss things. It?s painfully boring to watch.
    But it doesn?t have to be that way. Look at the council of Elrond. It?s a very dramatic sequence which not only moves the story forward, but also gives some background information as well as character introductions. Contrast this with the freak-show we know as the Jedi council, where distracting CGI are mixed together with bored out of their minds actors, who tries to solve the mystery of Yoda?s missing underpants (or whatever). It?s not entertaining. Lucas deserves the full blame for this. It?s his job to make it interesting. A talented writer could have found a way to make these scenes highly dramatic. And a talented writer could also have used the opportunity to give us some much needed background information, and to show us what is at stake. Nothing at stake leads to no danger, no danger leads to no drama, and no drama leads to nothing interesting at all.
    In the council of Elrond Sauron and the Ring are in focus the whole time, but in the Jedi council there is a vague and unspecified threat concerning Anakin?s training, while the supposedly alarming news that the Sith have returned is quickly brushed aside. And that?s hardly dramatic.
    This only shows that Lucas is a sloppy storyteller. Instead of showing emotions his characters prefer to tell everyone how they feel. Lucas could have used a scene or two to show us why Obi-Wan and Anakin were good friends instead of telling us that it is so. That?s a very sloppy attitude. A film is a visual medium, and in a film it?s very important to show the audience something rather than just telling them.
    That is what separates a film from a book. When you?re reading a book you have to visualize everything yourself, and everyone visualizes a book differently from one another. But in a film we are all being served the same images, everything in a film is directly translated from a visual concept to an image in our minds. Even though we may translate various images differently, it?s still different from a book where we all have to do our own visualization.
    The problem with the PT is the lack of drama. A lack of emotional stimulus leads to a lack of emotional investment. We feel neither for the protagonist nor for the antagonist. It is Lucas? duty to tell a convincing story, to make the audience believe they are in a galaxy far, far away.
    The only emotions that the PT manages to stir up are negative. As an example of an opposite, positive reaction, we can take the shot of Gandalf at the council of Elrond when Frodo announces that he will take the Ring to Mordor. That shot alone contains more emotional value than the entire PT. Another example is th/>
  11. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5

    This is Anakin's story and that is the story we need to hear/see. Grievous is a marketing tool, as Maul and Jango were in the previous episodes.

    Did we really need to know that Boba Fett's father was the "father" of all the stormtroopers? Seeing the factory was good enough - every question does not to be answered.

    The OT is so much better than the PT because it focussed on a strong core of main characters along with strong supporting characters that SERVED the story. Lucas has an opportunity to get things back on track with ROTS, though I am sure that he won't do this and that ROTS will be another disappointment.

    On a side note, I tried to watch ATOC the other day and could not get through it. I've watched the original trilogy many times since its dvd release in September. There is a magic in the OT that Lucas has, so far, been unable to replicate in the PT

    Na poume kai kati sosto


    When GL doesn't give fans what they want, they are complaints.

    I can't think of another film franchise where it seems so frickin' impossible to please people.

    No wonder GL wants to move on from Star Wars after ROTS. He's been shackled to its success for nearly 30 years now.
    Kai min mou peite oxi sto teleftaio, etsi ;)/>/>/>/>
  12. gianakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 3
    Tha ithela na kserdiso polla lefta,na paro aeroplano gia USA kai na vro ena ena afta ta anorima kathikia kai na tous gamiso oti exoun kai den exoun(opos sto Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back)!Einai kati parapano apo ilithioi,einai enoxlitikoi!
  13. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Exeis dikio... [face_plain]
    Ego na deis ti thelo na tous kano.

    Apo tin alli omos, pos tha gelousame xoris aftous?

    Kai den xreiazetai na pas ameriki. Enas einai ellinas ( :eek: ). Ellinogermanos sto aristoteleio.
  14. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Luke is taken to the planet of Tatooine. The last image of Obi-Wan is of him riding off into twin suns settling across the Jundtland Wastes on the back of an Eeopie. (from MF.com)



    Ma kala, ETSI THA GINEI O APOXORISMOS???!!!?!?!?!1!?!1/11/!?! MA EINAI STA KALA TOU O LUCA$1!!1!!!?1!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!!~1. TI NA PO DEN KSERO PIA. TORA TO STAR WARS EPIASE PATO. APOKLEIETAI NA PAEI PIO KATO. EGO THA TO EKANA KALITERA...[face_frustrated]



    Afto den ro eixa skeftei... Ti malakas... :oops:


    thank God, PJ and Tollkien, for LOTR




    Regarding Episode III: Won't see it, couldn't care less about this movie

    Simfono. Interarapikan megali kai sigouri. Afti einai tainia! Kai tie rmineies! H gomena fonazei, oxi epeidi prepei, alla epeidi tis aresei! :eek:
    Pou na kanei tetoia ermineia i Natalie...


    APOKLEISTIKO!!!! Etsi tha einai ta CG sto ROTS... [face_frustrated]

    [image=http://craphound.com/images/darthtater.jpg]

    :p [face_laugh]/>/>
  15. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Luke is taken to the planet of Tatooine. The last image of Obi-Wan is of him riding off into twin suns settling across the Jundtland Wastes on the back of an Eeopie.

    Ma kala, toso malakas einai pia?!?!?!?! Afti tha itan i kaliteri skini, kai o malakas evale CG!!!!?!?!?!

    If it really was so urgent to leave Tattooine and get to Couruscant (I really have to learn how to spell that name) in TPM, why didn?t they just follow Luke?s example, and sell the queen?s ship to buy passage to Couruscant? Considering what a busy metropolis Tattooine was at the time of the PT (the bright centre in the universe for pod-racing, among other things) they should have had no problem to find a ship bound for Couruscant. Even with the hyperdrive destroyed, the royal luxury yacht of Naboo must have been worth quite a lot more than Luke?s landspeeder, so they might as well have traded it for a smaller, older starship. This could have saved them the trouble of the pod-race, and all that. Or, considering the immorality of Qui-Gon, they could just have stolen a ship.

    ?We can pay you two thousand now, plus fifteen when we reach Alderaan?.

    But I guess that?s not the kind of ?rhyming? Lucas had in mind.
    [face_plain] [face_plain] [face_plain]

    I REALLY don't like what they are doing with Palpatine in ROTS.

    Den se rotisame ti sou aresei.


    Exo mia idea. Den kathomaste oloi mazi na grapsoume ena PT pou tha ikanopoiei oloi tis bashers (pou leme kai sti Syro)? Alla edo pou ta lame, kathe basher fantazete diaforetika tin PT. :p



    Thank god Lucas does not pay an attention to the fans otherwise we might end up with Vader in a pink cape running around hitting jedi over the head with his handbag.


    Kalooo =D=


    The mere fact that the script makes one ask this question is just another example of what makes TPM such a failure. TPM script is beyond a muddle - full of questionable motivations, dodgy logic and ridiculous twists of fate. 90% of the movie makes no sense without the audience having to create some faux rational for why things happen. This is BAD film-making plain and simple. The inability of the TPM script to answer such basic questions about it's character's motivations is the fault of the film-makers (meaning GL), not the audience.

    For example, why could Qui Gon not purchase both Anakin and his mother? Surely in a universe where droids who can do almost anything are a dime a dozen a human slave can't be all that valuable? I belive the only rational given is that "Watto wouldn't allow it." We never hear Watto describe his reasons and no other explanation is offered. Thus "Watto wouldn't allow it" is simply code for "George's script sucks and this has to happen for the plot to continue."

    Now, a much more interesting aspect of the story could have been whether Qui Gon would have had any interest in rescuing Shmi Skywalker at all. This is ever discussed or addressed or even really implied, but because Jedi pupils are separated from their families int he first place and because Anakin appears ot be so special there is the basis for Qui Gon wanting to leave Shmi behind. This would make QGJ and TPM much more interesting if this decision was part of a larger thread int he story of Jedi arrogance leading to their eventual downfall. Unfortunately that element ofthe story has never really come to the forefront.

    Moreover, even if QGJ's character had been embelished in this way, it would just amount to robbing Peter to pay Paul, because the realr relationship at the dramatic center of the SW universe is Anakin and Obi Wan. By introducing the QGJ character int he first place GL has dramatically undercut the pathos OW. From the original saga we get the idea that Obi Wan has profound guilt over what happened between he and Vader - that he blames his own arrogance in part for Anakin's fall. Luke represents his chance to make-good. By putting him on the path to restoring the Jedi and also properly acknowledging when his role is at an end and Yoda's must begin, he pays his debt for his prior failures. With the introdu
  16. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Nomizate oti tha sas ksexnaga,e? ;) Gia na doume, ti sofa logia tha akousoume simeris.

    The mere fact that the script makes one ask this question is just another example of what makes TPM such a failure. TPM script is beyond a muddle - full of questionable motivations, dodgy logic and ridiculous twists of fate. 90% of the movie makes no sense without the audience having to create some faux rational for why things happen. This is BAD film-making plain and simple. The inability of the TPM script to answer these kinds of basic, nuts and bolts questions about its character's motivations is the fault of the film-makers (meaning GL), not the audience.

    For example, why could Qui Gon not purchase both Anakin and his mother? Surely in a universe where droids who can do almost anything are a dime a dozen a human slave can't be all that valuable? The only rational that I can recall being given is that "Watto wouldn't allow it." We never hear Watto describe his reasons and no other explanation is offered. Thus "Watto wouldn't allow it" is simply code for "George's script sucks and this has to happen for the plot to continue."

    Now, the could have played up a much more interesting aspect of the story - whether Qui Gon would have had any interest in rescuing Shmi Skywalker at all. This is never really discussed or addressed or even implied, but because we know Jedi pupils are separated from their families in the first place and because Anakin appears to be so special there is a basis for Qui Gon actually WANTING to leave Shmi behind. This decision, if made a part of a larger thread in the story about Jedi arrogance leading to their eventual downfall, would make QGJ and TPM much more interesting. Unfortunately that element of the story has never really come to the forefront and one has to do some significant "reading into the text" to take it as an intentional aspect of the story.

    Moreover, such as the crapulence of the TPM script that even if QGJ's character had been embelished in this way, it would just amount to robbing Peter to pay Paul. QGJ as a character is poorly concieved in that he undercuts the relationship at the dramatic center of the SW universe - Anakin and Obi Wan. By introducing the QGJ character in the first place GL has dramatically undercut the role of OW, which in turn robs a lot of power from the original trilogy.

    From the OT we get the idea that Obi Wan has profound guilt over what happened between he and Vader - that he blames his own arrogance in part for Anakin's fall. Luke represents his chance to make-good. By putting him on the path to restoring the Jedi and also properly acknowledging when his role is at an end and Yoda's must begin, he pays his debt for his prior failures. With the introduction of QGJ, Anakin just becomes something Obia Wan inherited. In the way the prequels have been structured there is no hint of Obi Wan's own conduct playing a part in Anakin's fall.

    Sorry for the ramble, but there is no reason for these movies to be so bad. I mean, look at the LOTR trilogy that has been so discussed here. Even though the source material for LOTR was far more elaborate and arcane, my wife loved it having never read the books. The whole series of flicks made sense to her without having to do any mental gymnastics to understand what is a vastly more complicated story that the PT.

    The LOTR example also shows the importance of having good collaborators willing to check each others' work. There is no way those scripts - and therefore those films - would have been as good without Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens all knocking heads to make the story work. Ultimately I think this lack of other voices in the process is Lucas's biggest downfall (although he has others - such as having no eye for talent). Unlike whenthe original trilogy was in being made, these days no one is in any position to tell him no. Rick McAssSniffer is certainly not going to do it. With no collaborator on this script Lucas's prequel scripts are as bad as his original SW script before it got the />
  17. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Jar Jar knows Anakin's Mom who knows The Archangel Gabriel

    :eek: [face_plain]
  18. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    As for Qui Gon dying in the fight on Tatooine, I think it would be even more effective if it were Obi Wan who were sent out after the spare parts in the first place, the entire Mos Espa section revolved around Obi Wan while Qui Gon stayed behind to guard the ship, and then Maul tracks Obi Wan and Anakin back to the ship. Qui Gon ends up coming out to bail Obi Wan's tail out of the fire, fights Maul, and is mortally wounded. He could either die there, or die later on the ship if there needed to be some final dialogue between him and Obi Wan

    Wow, great idea! The 'Obi Wan going to Mos Espa' part is something I've seen before (particularly in Oakessteve's excellent rewrite), but having Qui Gon die early is something new for me. Either way, having more Obi Wan would solve about 60% of my problems with TPM

    And if there's anything that I would condemn the PT as a whole (even AOTC which I found entertaining) is the lack of Alderaan. Maybe I'm alone on this, but I always thought Alderaan would play a major part in the PT, I was hoping to see alot more of this planet with no weapons but was still destroyed by the Empire. I always thought Obi Wan and Bail Organa would be close friends and fight together side by side in the Clone Wars, be heroes together, perhaps it was Bail who gave Obi Wan the title of General ( I imagine the Obi Wan/Bail relationship would be similar to Aragorn and Theoden in the LOTR movies, ya know). And there should be an explanation why the planet suddenly became pacifist in the OT, despite Bail's involvement in the Clone Wars (eg so many Alderaan soldiers died in the conflict that the government decided they will never again be involved in this sort of thing and be neutral in any future conflicts. Possibly Bail and his family disagree with this policy, that's why he and his daughter Leia help the rebels in the OT).

    Instead, with all I've seen of the spoilers, it looks like Alderaan would so insignificant. Instead we get Naboo.And poor Bail, I don't think his name was even mentioned in AOTC! Now that's one aspect where I would say AOTC did worse than TPM. I don't mind not having Bail in TPM (a mention might be nice, but not essential), but by the second movie he should be already be an important character. As it is, I doubt the third movie will have time to flesh out Bail's chaarcter.


    Tora katalavaino giati oloi misoun tin PT. Giati den egne opos tin fantazontan.


    I haven't had a computer for a couple of days, so I just got to see the latest two spoilers over at millenniumfalcon.com.

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry. How can this movie not suck?[/i
    I agree that it all makes it a bit too complex and takes too long. With my rewrites I spend almost a whole episode with that stuff. Lucas obviously couldn't do that. Okay, I guess he could have, but I think 3 prequels is more than enough
    Proskinate re ane megalo skinotheti! Megale! Esena eprepe na eperne o Luca$!


    Okay, but I think there are far worse things that make Obi-Wan look like a liar. Simply saying "your uncle thought he should have stayed here" is not so bad imo. Not as bad as some of the other stuff. You can't really expect Obi-Wan to say "your uncle thought he should have stayed on planet StupidName you've probably never heard of, but you'll see it in a movie 20 years from now".


    Problem is, this is too much like everything else in the PT... it's made needlessly complex just for the sake of shaking things up, and in the process the entire saga loses any sort of flow.

    Anakin absolutely needed to be from Tatooine, and IMHO he actually needed to be from that same farm. Tatooine because this is what Lucas set up in the original movie almost 30 years ago, and that same farm because the farm itself serves as the classic "small, backwater town where nothing ever happens" which is the perfect place to begin a hero's journey.

    - That's all fine, but I DON'T LIKE Tatooine!!
    It's such a boring place! And all that sand! It's rough, and it gets everywhere!
    />/>/>/>/>/>/>
  19. gianakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 3
    Ti idees na poume more?Oi tipades tha vazane ton Leslie Nielsen gia Sidious kai ton Chevy Chase gia Qui Gon!Ti kollimenoi!
    Mou aresei oti kanoun les kai tous anevasan tous forous,les kai to SW einai kati to krisimo gia ti zoi tous kai tora pou o GL to "gamise",i zooules tous katastrafikan!Eleos!Keep up,Obi-one!
  20. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Eixa dei kapou sto thread afto mia dilosi tou Gillard, oti o Christensen einai o kaliteros ksifomaxos pou exei dei pote. Fisika oloi gelasane.
    Ego ena exo na po. Sto dimotiko, ntinomoun zorro! Eixa tin mperta mou, to kapelaki mou kai to plastiko spathaki mou. Apo tote imoun assos stin ksifaskia. O Christensen pote epiase spathi gia proti fora? Sto AotC (ti malakia titlos!!!1! [face_sick] ). Ara, pios kserei kaliteri ksifaskia?

    Ego vevaia!!!


    Gerafte kai eseis sxolia/antidraseis, gia na mi ti deis kaneis kai nomisei oti grafo mono ego.


    EDIT:

    I just sold my Attack of the Clones DVD and both of my OT:SE box sets. I didn't even blink. Now, try separating me from my widescreen OT:eek:T:eek:T:eek:T Bluebox with the hologram VHS tapes and you have a whole 'nother story

    I agree, Bail organa and Alderaan are major casualties in the PT, they simply don't exist enough in comparrison to the extra fat luca$ has concucted to fill out the thin plot he never fleshed out for the PT. (mas taizei lipos o Luca$!!!1!!11!!~1 ANte tora na xaseis ta parapanisia kila...) There shouldn't have been a Naboo, that planet and all the story that surrounds it should have been Alderaan (episis den eprepe na iparxei Han Solo, Chewbacca, Jar-Jar, Ewoks, Greedo, pod racing, Boba and Jango Fett klp. Einai i istoria tou Anakin. Oloioi alloi einai perittoi). Bail should've have been a major player, not some extra without a alien mask in the background as he's portrayed in the PT. The most central failing of the PT is to show the Jedi operatinng in a "More civilized age" as it was stated by Ben Kenobi, the first film should have had a functioning Republic, pro-active Jedi, a true golden age by which the end of the film would have shown an incident that would spark the doom that is to follow. To show an already decaying and corrupt Republic with jedi so useless you wouldn't call one out to change a light-bulb only makes the audience want a change of order as much as Palpatine!(ouden sxolion)

    There is a Major problem with the saga aside from the fact that it was never planned properly by Luca$ and only existing in his mind as a series-of-possibilities forever changing. First a 12 then 9 part saga was the idea, then when he got tired of it all (eipame, einai palioskatotempelis!!!1!!1!!1!!1~1) he decided it ended with 3 but because he had already renamed the first film Episode 4:ANH, he always had the option to go back and make eps 1,2 & 3 even though he really had no interest in doing so. To now go back and make those first 3 without planning causes yet another problem becasue contrary to the beblief of the majority, he never planned on Darth Vader being Lukes father or Liea (pia einai afti?) Lukes sister; those were just plots that came inot being because he decided to end the saga and turn it into a trilogy by collpasing it with ROTJ (mas ftaiei kai to ROTJ tora... [face_plain] ). Once you realize that, certain things become obvious which make the PT convoluted: [face_sick]

    1: You can no longer tell the story of a young Vader who was a pupil of Obi Wan Kenobi because now that person also has to be Anakin, Lukes father who was also Obi Wans friend, a person who was already a "Great" pilot when they met, gets "betrayed and murdered" by himself in a "certain point of view" which in other words means - "I lied becasue NOW we Jedi do that and cheat too, as long as we get to manipulate things to our benefit" or "I'm Luca$ and i'm changing the plan becasue i'm tired of this!" (palioskatopsefti luca$!!!!!!!!1111!!11!!!~1)

    2: You now have to also have Young Vader be a real good guy in the begining (and i'm talking goody-two-shoes!) instead of the bad seed he was always meant to be so that he can be still be substantially beleivable as a character redeemable in ROTJ despite all the mass murders he no doubt performs on his way to being the ultimate bad-guy not to mention the unredeemable and merciless character he is originally presented as in the first two films. It's something tha/>/>/>
  21. Starkeiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2004
    star 4
    ^ Poly kalo!!! Para poly kalo! Kala, poios einai aftos o typos, o... o... o Lucas brosta s' aftes tis megalofyies kai ta senaria tous?! Eidika to 7 kai to 8, einai fovera! "In the final battle of T.P.M., Bail Organa and his twin sister Padme return with Anakin, Kenobi and Quigon to liberate Alderaan but also with a platoon of jedi and Republic forces." AAAAAAHHHHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!! [face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh] [face_laugh] To stomahi mou!!! Ohi allo gelio! Ah, tha peso sto patoma ap' ta gelia!!! Re, o typos den xerei na proferei ta onomata, kai milaei!!! [face_clown]8-}
  22. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    O tipos exei apopsi, esi eisai malakas!!!!!!11!!111!!~1

    :p
  23. Obi_one_and_only Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2001
    star 5
    Good posts, all - major bashing going on.

    All I can say is that I'm looking forward to concluding the PT. I'm also waiting to be proven correct that the midichlorian idea was merely a device to show that Anakin is the Chosen One and for no other reason were they included in the storyline.

    And no doubt, you will be correct. Any use they could have served would have been AOTC, as a measure of Anakin's arrogance or the Jedi Order's dependence on science over faith; and alas, they were not.


    **** moseys over to look for new spoilers ****

    EDIT ADDING: Oh lord. I could have handled the basic spoiler (one out for a while) "as is" - if handled correctly - but it sure sounds like they're going to go the most absurd and overly complicated route to make it work.Ma na min einai o Luca$ toso talantouxos kai sokolatouxos oso ego! There are other bad spoilers - name giving, ie - that really stink in it. Retract earlier Midi comment. Man, this film is gonna suck.


    Well I am going to go see episode 3. No longer is this tragic, it has actually surpassed that and has become comedy.I look forward to laughing at Revenge Of The Sith at
    this point.

    After Revenge Of The Sith, however I am done. I can take no more. No more EU and other merchandise that sprang from that great movie in 77.

    I enjoyed Empire and Jedi and some scatterred EU but I think the time has come to let it go.The original movie has been exploited too much and is now passing into legend. The time of the Elves is over.

    I love Han,Luke, and Leia. Those are my three heroes in this thing.

    Gandalf has come to take the original CLASSIC(The O-CT)
    trilogy into the Grey Havens.

    I am ready for another adventure.


    Etsi kai eixa xrono kai oreksi, tha eperna kathe idea pou exoun grapsei kai tha egrafa tin istoria ton prequels. Eimai periergos na do ti the evgene. [face_thinking]

    O Luca$ akoma na psofisei?/>/>/>/>
  24. Starkeiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2004
    star 4
    "O tipos exei apopsi, esi eisai malakas!!!!!!"

    A, nai... Na min xsehname kai se ti thread vriskomaste... ;)
  25. Starkeiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2004
    star 4
    "Etsi kai eiha hrono kai oreksi, tha eperna kathe idea pou ehoun grapsei kai tha egrafa tin istoria twn prequels. Eimai periergos na do ti the evgene."

    Ma, ena aristourgima, fysika! Klasseis anwtero apo ta erasitehnika senarioeidi kataskevasmata tou Luca$, pou eina grammena sto podi, mono kai mono gia na mas faei ta franga! ;)
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