Tell me why half the Episode Two score is from Episode One

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Grand Moff Lars, May 16, 2002.

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  1. Grand Moff Lars Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 1999
    It seems like most of the latter half of the movie is either cues from Episode One or repeats of cues from earlier in the movie. Did anyone else notice? Why?
  2. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    A lot of the essential themes were there. I think this was done because it helps ease the transition between TPM and AOTC, and because the music was well suited for the movie. Rememember, a lot of the same musical themes from Episode 4 are carried into 5 and 6..
  3. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Uh no. He means that half the movie is actually scored with the tracks FROM Episode I. They used the cues recorded in 1999 to score much of the latter half of the film and I was LIVID.

    They also didn't use the Finale from the CD with the amazing weaving of themes at the end of the love theme, they just rubber stamped in the Across the Stars concert arrangement. And badly I might add.
  4. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    OH GOOD GOD. OH GOOD GOD.

    I saw the movie last night and I could have puked. WHY? WHY JOHN?

    He copied the whole droid battle sequence from TPM. THE WHOLE THING. He also used that quick string cue when the red Republic ship flies toward the Trade Federation ship in TPM, as well as a 10-15 second cue from the beginning of TPM when Nute and Rune "contact Lord Sidious".

    Oh good god. This score sucked. Plain and simple. This score was the worst thing I've ever heard. I mean, the most important part of the film, the Jedi battle with the droids, NONE OF IT IS NEW! I couldn't even concentrate on the action because I couldn't believe my ears.


    Good lord, Williams, you have officially lost it. Now get out of Star Wars, please.
  5. Miz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2001
    star 2
    This is a travesty!!

    I'm seeing the film tomorrow evening, and with Sithman saying something like that, I think all hope is lost!

    Can anyone begin to explain why? Such lifting of cues has never been done by Williams before, so why now? Surely it's the most aniticipated score we've had from him (save Harry Potter, perhaps), so why do something this lazy?

    Is this why the CD is sparse? Is anyone now looking forward to a UE set, because if we weren't pleased with the TPM one, I seriously doubt anyones going to want this!?!
  6. IAmTheDarkSide Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 4
    I wouldn't normally comment on it, but since I just started a whole thread on it earlier, I'll paste it here:
    These two words DO NOT mean the same thing. At all. It's odd that they never seem to make the "commonly misused" lists, because they're some of the most frequently misused words I come upon.

    Just to set things straight:

    Travesty = 1. An exaggerated or grotesque imitation, such as a parody of a literary work.
    2. A debased or grotesque likeness: a travesty of justice.

    Tragedy = A disastrous event, especially one involving distressing loss or injury to life.
    So unless you're really trying to say it's a mockery of a Star Wars film, you're using the wrong word.
  7. PROPHEToftheCOUNCIL Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2001
    star 4
    Thank you for that refresher course in the bloddy English language, I am quite ceratin that a number of people needed one.
  8. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    So what? The point was there.

    So far, the cues I remember that are directly lifted from TPM or other SW scores are:
    ---------------------------
    TPM: The whole droid battle from TPM, chopped up and edited even more and worse than in TPM. It's about 10 minutes of musical abomination.

    TPM: The opening music right after the main theme is the same as TPM's.

    TPM: The quick, rousing string cue played as the red Republic ship (Radiant VII) rockets towards the droid ships.

    TPM: About a minute from the scene where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon slash battle droids on the Trade Federation ship.

    TPM: About 20 seconds from the scene where Nute and Rune "contact Lord Sidious" aboard the droid ship via hologram.

    ROTJ: 5 or 6 seconds from the scene were Vader lifts up Palpatine and throws him of the ledge and down the shaft in the Throne Room.

    ROTJ: About 10 seconds from the Sail Barge Assault.
    ---------------------------


    There's probably more, but that's all I can pick out.


    You must realize that even though you might say "Well, 5 or 6 seconds taken from TPM or ROTJ isn't bad and it's not as bad as the 10 minute sections. Well, there shouldn't be ANY LIFTING OF MUSIC FROM THE OTHER MOVIES. Zippo.



    If you add of all the sections I picked out (I know it's an approximate, but there's probably more) it adds up to about 11 minutes and 45 seconds of copied music.

    That is sad.
  9. The power's back! Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 1
    Yeah, I love Williams using OT themes and all (like DOTF and the Emperor's theme), but the entire "Clone War" segment was actual TPM score.

    My question is "why." Did John Williams write new music, but Lucas edited the scene so differently that he had to scrap it at the last minute? Was Williams too busy? Why????? WHY??????
  10. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "WHY??????"




    Actually, that's a very good question.
  11. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    I, too, was quite disappointed with AotC's score. The recycling of TPM music was a huge distraction the first time I saw AotC. Fortunately, it didn't bother me much on my second viewing, but still, they really dropped the ball with the score this time around.
  12. Imrahil2001 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    Yes, I was extremely disappointed in this. My guess? I think Lucas is messing with the movie/score after Williams has already done it.

  13. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    I've no idea why GL used TPM music. You hear snippets now and again. As Anakin and Padme are coming in for a landing on Geonosis, as Obi-Wan is walking into the rock formation on Geonosis, etc. If I were JW, I'd be furious.

    Personally, I just don't have the energy to care this time. I expected it to happen again, especially when I heard that they were still shooting up till a week before the film's release. I didn't expect them to use TPM music, but I did expect the score to be screwed with again.
  14. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    dehrian, not just 'snippets now and then' but the whole droid battle scene from TPM. It was chopped and edited to heck, but it was there, almost in it's entirety.
  15. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    Yeah, I know. I meant aside from that. There are other pieces of TPM music sprinkled throughout.
  16. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Dude, did you even read my huge post in this thread? I just listed a bunch of them!
  17. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    I was supporting you. I'm sorry. Next time I'll disagree.
  18. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I agree with Jeff, it was a huge distraction the first time - but the second time, it didn't bother me as much, partially because I like the Radiant and Gunships coming down cues...

    The film still rocked - the Kamino theme was awesome... ba ba bababa ba ba baba bababa ba ba baaaaaaa...

    Too bad it was also used when Dooku uses his speeder bike.

    And why was the TF march going when the clones appeared?! It sounded cool as all get out, but it's not their music...
  19. jamesdrax Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 6
    Really, I couldn't care less about what's in the movie. It probably benefitted from the edits anyway.

    Besides, if we're all going to beg for an Ultimate Edition, we'll have to word it properly this time. Instead of saying that we want it as we heard it in the film, we'll say that we want it as John Williams composed it.

    I wasn't terribly distracted by the heavy musical edits and TPM cues. The film is now my second favourite anyway.

    :)
  20. Miz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2001
    star 2
    Yeah, we're still waiting for the different recordings of DOTF. You can hear many in the EP 1 Racer game, with choral and orchestral differences etc.

    Anyway, back to the point. Yes, a UE will have to include cut recordings etc. not edited film cues. Surely releasing a 'film version' of the score will be embarrassingly unfeasible for the record label (?), because it will be obvious to every person that much of the music is recycled. You can't do that! It's possible in the film (cringe), but on an album it just can't be done!
  21. Master_Cloner Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    Jees.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed. I was pretty mad. It did really spoil the battle scene for me.

    I thought the AOTC CD was pretty bland apart from a few splashes of Vader's theme and the brief reprise of Duel of the Fates (not that I thought it was entirely appropriate)

    But having great chunks of TPM music made me think about the other film and not concentrate on what I was watching.

    As a consequence, I'm going to have to go to see the film again. (like I wasn't anyway :-D)
  22. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    dehrian, sorry that came across wrong, I didn't mean it like that. :-\


    Oh, and I'm in the same boat as you all. I couldn't even concentrate on the awesome Jedi vs. droid battle because the movie was driving me nuts. I was begging to the screen the whole time to stop playing this music.
  23. Darth Pikachuwbacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2000
    star 4
    I think the words were certainly appropriate after reading those definitions.

    Travesty = A debased or grotesque likeness

    Tragedy = A disastrous event

    That would certainly reflect my feelings about the whole thing.

    The patchwork score we were given was just jarring, more so than any Gungan bumbling. I'd really like to know where this all went wrong. And if we actually get a music only track on the DVD, that's just pouring salt in the wounds! This is not only the worst score a Star Wars movie has ever had, it is also one of the worst scores any movie has had. And let me say that some of the original stuff wasn't that great either, with the possible exception of the main love theme.

    I was taken right out of the ending battle because every five seconds we would get a piece of Episode I music, and then another piece and then another. And yes giving the Clones the Droid music was also thematically wrong. (But maybe not, if Sidious was behind the Clones as well. Perhaps it's a musical clue?)

    On the whole, I loved the movie. I would give it five stars if it had a full, complete original score. Since it doesn't... 3½ out of five. For shame Lucas.
  24. bleutuna Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 1
    Guess what? It doesn't matter. Didn't make a lick of difference.

    I find it funny that you'll get your ass handed to you here if you question the CGI work in the movie, but you guys are harping on something as inconsequential as an edited score.

    Gues what? The TPM score is better than the AOTC score. Maybe George just wanted high-quality themes and music in his battle scenes.
  25. markos Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    Hey Grand Moff. I'm new to the boards. I saw AOTC last night and I too noticed that most of the score at the end was from Menace. I was a bit disturbed by this myself. I would've liked to have heard something new for such a climatic battle scene. But I was still pleased with the movie itself.
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