Tell me why half the Episode Two score is from Episode One

I guess I would prefer George Lucas didn't hack up his prequels like he does - just weeks before they're released. The original Star Wars trilogy didn't seem to have this problem (okay, it didn't have this problem as bad as the PT). I call it poor directing when the director isn't able to allow the composer to maintain a certain level of artistic integrity and butcher the score in the final reel as GL et al have done with AOTC. It seems like GL is micromanaging to the point where he is and NOT directing. Sure, Star Wars is HIS thing to do with as he pleases but if you ask almost any other decent film maker you'll find that collaboration with great artists/technicians who specialize in their field is the key to achieving a great work.

"Don't tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and let
them surprise you with their results" - George S. Patton.

[/rant] for now....

 

Then read this whole thread over again, and any others that started on this subject and were probably locked. THEN you can justifiably comment here, but right now your statements are invalid as they have been said before and proved to be null arguments.

What arguments? I said, yeah okay, music hasn't really been plastered into a scene like that, but themes from all the movies, are well, in all the movies. By the way, and not to start any conflicts, but you aren't one to tell me when I am "valid" enough to post.

And whether you like it or not, Yoda's theme being used in the escape from Bespin wasn't any different than Yoda's theme being used on the conveyer belt. And like you said- it fits what is going on on-screen in the escape. And I 100% agree.

Well, I happen to think that Yoda's theme fits the conveyer belt part.

 

I think Yoda's theme was perfect. It is a dramatic theme that has alot of meaning throughout Star Wars. And what were we watching while it was played? Anakin fighting Machines (and eventually loosing)! If there isn't deep meaning behind that, I don't know what does.

 

Here's the explanation, makes sense really.


John Williams composed/scored the film in December,January, and February. As you all know George Lucas likes to mold his films well after filming. I wouldn't be surprised if he was editing well into April. What you end up with is a film that is slightly different than the one JW scored which means it doesn't fit JW's original score(for those particular edited scenes). What do you do?


Do you get JW to rescore? He's too busy (MR,Harry Potter 2,Catch Me if you Can).

You keep the score the way it is even though the scenes are a little different? Of course not! Imagine during the quiet fireplace scene you all of a sudden hear a crescendo of brass and trumpets because previously at that time there was an action scene but GL switched them around. If you kept JW's original score the scenes wouldn't match the "new film"

You try to edit the score as best you can using JW material from AOTC,TPM, and OT? bingo! . Since you can't elicit the help of JW and you can't keep the original score over the modified film you do your best to score it yourself.




Fans are mad but think about why they would do such a thing. Many of you know that the arena battle scene was heavily edited. What JW scored earlier just wouldn't fit with the new shape of the film. Would you prefer silence??

 

Would I prefer silence to the heavily edited TPM music in the arena battle? Yes, I believe I would. Would I prefer that Lucas had made more of an effort to work with Williams on making sure the score was right in the movie? Most definitely.

 

Would I prefer silence to the heavily edited TPM music in the arena battle? Yes, I believe I would.


Really? Do most of you feel that way?

Would I prefer that Lucas had made more of an effort to work with Williams on making sure the score was right in the movie? Most definitely Yes



But we know that John Williams was busy. As soon as he finished AOTC then MR was finished. Their collaboration would be limited to phone calls with suggestions by JW. We don't know what really went on. I am sure though that a film composer edited the score as I have serious doubts as to GL's own abilities with composing. I had NO problem with the arena or factory scene. It fit, it wasn't distracting. I realize there are those who think otherwise but LFL did what they had to do.

 

Pooja you really do need to read the discussion before you join in like that. You are talking about something completely different than what we mean. To arrogently ignore this and say I don't care to read this I am gonna post anyway is going to yield undesirable responses from people on the boards.

 

BillyZane, please read my previous post about 4 posts up about why LFL had to edit the score.

 

Dolphin, just how many times have you posted that?

 

Pooja you really do need to read the discussion before you join in like that. You are talking about something completely different than what we mean. To arrogently ignore this and say I don't care to read this I am gonna post anyway is going to yield undesirable responses from people on the boards.

Sorry.

 

I've seen _Attack Of The Clones_ a few times now.

I don't intend to see it again in the near future. And I'm not a music expert. But I can say how, for one fan, the music stands up to repeat listening. I'm venting, but I have some basis to do so.

I came to _Attack Of The Clones_ with high expectations of the music, because _The Phantom Menace_ wowed me. But I was disappointed with _The Attack Of The Clones_. The music seemed like a rehash, put together without art. When I wanted to be blown away, as I had been by the duel with Darth Maul, I wasn't. Instead, I heard the droid battle (from Naboo) again. Say what??

Repeated viewings of the film have underlined the fault, for me. The music started out not being quite what I wanted, and as I've gotten used to it, it's become definitely not what I want. It's off-putting.

I'm glad I came and read stuff here, because when I say the movie the first time, my reaction was simply to blame John Williams for doing a shoddy job. After all, hearing is believing, when it comes to music. The music is unsatisfactory, and John Williams is credited as the composer, so I thought it was an open-and-shut case.

I think during the final battles, it would be better to just go with lots of big sound effects. Try to make the blasters and so on sound really serious, and powerful like in _Heat_ or _Blackhawk Down_. That could work.

Just plain lifting music from another movie, music that describes a completely different battle, doesn't work for me, and unlike the all-sound-effects idea, it really had no chance to work. It would be better to "shut up" musically than to "say the wrong thing."

 

I generally think internet petitions are pretty stupid and meaningless, but it looks like some of the guys affiliated with JWFAN.NET have started a petition to get Sony to release the full, unaltered, unedited score for Episode II.

Click here for the petition website.

 

The petition created for TPM's OST was powerful enough to generate a written apology from Lucas Licensing for misrepresenting the Ultimate Edition CDs. (Whether they will actually release a better version of the ST is unknown).

Hopefully, they already learned their lesson from that debacle, and were already planning an unbowdlerized version of the AOTC score.

To be fair, Sony and Lucas don't *have* to release the score at all. It's a favor to us fans. However, if they are going to do it, they should do it honestly and without cutting corners.

 

"Do you get JW to rescore? He's too busy (MR,Harry Potter 2,Catch Me if you Can)."

Yeah but John Williams isn't scoring those 3 movies back, to back, to back in March and April. Was he?

Basically what it all comes down to is that George Lucas is too cheap to pay for extra scoring sessions.

 

I desperately hope, and have a strong feeling that the final battle mix and match of music was done temporarily to the best of their abilities with the material they had on hand to utilize. And I believe with the DVD release, and most likely a future digital theater release after episode 3 or even before, that Lucas will have Williams finish scoring music for the battle that will work and replace the temporary stuff.
Hell, Lucas has done it before like in the ESB:SE Williams rescored the scene where the shuttle is brought to the Executor and Vader does his force choking bit, and it sounds better now. He also had the RotJ jabba's palace scene redone, even if it wasn't done by Williams, and the finale totally rescored. I don't see it as an impossibility that we'll be hearing totally new music for AotC very soon, and like rumored ANH having the Imp March added in at points, and even the TPM final battle possibly rescored, even though that seems the least painful now, compared to the AotC battle. I mean, if Williams is as angry as we are about it, he'll probably be more than happy to fix the problems and repair what Lucas temporarily put in there. But I have a feeling Lucas and Williams talked about this beforehand, and they agreed that there would be a temp track and that Williams would later fix it.

 

I desperately hope, and have a strong feeling that the final battle mix and match of music was done temporarily to the best of their abilities with the material they had on hand to utilize. And I believe with the DVD release, and most likely a future digital theater release after episode 3 or even before, that Lucas will have Williams finish scoring music for the battle that will work and replace the temporary stuff.

Life isn't that great.

 

While this would be great, I have a sad feeling that it is a pipe dream...

 

Lucas needs to give Willams a completed version of his film before he allows him to start scoring it! . Lucas is trigger-happy when it comes to editing.

 

I strongly believe Lucas is just flat out trigger-happy in general.

He cut the film.
He cut the music.
He cut this.
He cut that.

...and I suddenly have nothing else to say.

 

Yeah but he is after all THE mind behind Star Wars so we kinda gotta live with him.

 

There comes a point where one more stroke can ruin a perfect painting....

Make the movie, stop, then score it.

 

Even if GL could have gotten JW back for rescoring (not sure about his 2002 schedule), he would ALSO have to book the London Symphony Orchestra to actually play the music, and I really doubt their schedule would have allowed for that to happen.

 

It's terrible isn't it. This fact makes AOTC my least favourite Star Wars film.

Favourite: ANH, TESB, ROTJ, TPM
Least Favourite: AOTC


What about when Yoda comes in with the clones to save the day... an opportunity for some great emotional music there and they rehashed TPM stuff! It completely ruins the whole thing!

But there's no chance they'll rescore it, I don't think.

 

It's terrible isn't it. This fact makes AOTC my least favourite Star Wars film.

Sure it's bad but...I'd say that's going a bit too far. Music isn't EVERYTHING. It HELPS more than people think but really, your liking of the movie shouldn't decrease because of the music.

 

I rather disagree. The music is supposed to bring you into the movie.