Tell me why half the Episode Two score is from Episode One

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Grand Moff Lars, May 16, 2002.

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  1. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    So you agree that music is everything and should be worked on more than anything else, including script, dialogue, FX....?
  2. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    [face_laugh]

    Anyone who actually thinks that needs to re-evaluate things a little I think.

  3. PloKloon1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2001
    star 4
    I thought the same exact thing, strilo. [face_laugh]
  4. Vonn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    Actually, after listening to both AOTC and AI's soundtracks, I'm starting there maybe a legitimate reason why some Ep2's score wasn't used.

    It seems to me that John Williams is overloading his plate when it comes to choosing projects, because if you listen to most of his recent works, a lot of the themes are overlapping.

    For example, there is portion of one of his themes for AI (Abandoned in the Woods or Rouge City) that is almost note for note reprinted in the Love theme from Attack of the Clones.

    If John Williams is going to continue to plagiarize, then it is George's obligation to remove the most blatantly obviously copied pieces and replace them with tracks from TPM or even the OT.

    Personally, in SW, I respect George's vision more than Williams' intended, and in the end, it is more important that George's vision remains most intact than Williams' intended music.

    BTW, why don't we complain about Williams' butchering of his own music on the soundtrack album? After all, he DID produce that album.
  5. CopernicusDent Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2001
    star 2
    "...he would ALSO have to book the London Symphony Orchestra to actually play the music..."

    Why? There is other orchestra?s.
  6. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Umm...yeah. The film's score would sound GREAT with two different orchestras playing music.

    /sarcasm
  7. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    Lucas and Williams talked about this beforehand, and they agreed that there would be a temp track and that Williams would later fix it.


    Although the substituted score worked for me I hope you're right.
  8. Grand Moff Joker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1999
    star 4
    The substituted score definitely did not work for me, so I really hope the above quote is right.
  9. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    ...fixed...for like, the DVD?

    Uh...please?
  10. DarthKegX Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    The biggest dissapointment in my mind was the choice of using the space battle theme from EP1 over 'The Arena' for the arena scene near the end. 'The Arena' is heard for about a minute during that scene and then ceases. Listening to the soundtrack, it is an excellent piece as a whole.
  11. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    "So you agree that music is everything and should be worked on more than anything else, including script, dialogue, FX....?"

    When did anyone ever say anything remotely like that?
  12. Kreuzader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2002
    star 4
    An interview with John Williams from off the front page:

    An enduring love for music, movies

    This quote in particular is interesting:

    Williams says writing a score for a film like '' Attack of the Clones,'' where the music runs almost continuously is very ''time consuming and labor intensive. I haven't joined the computer generation, and I still write every note with a pencil - sometimes it's a bit daunting. Most of the recent films have been very action-oriented, which means a more active score, which in turn means more notes, more bars, more orchestration. Sometimes you can work against type by writing slow music to fast action for a special effect, but most of the film you have to match the kinetic action on the screen or something feels funny to the public.''

    Williams says about the only thing that makes it possible to compose two hours of music in 31/2 months is that ''tempo, texture, and dynamics are all pretty much dictated by someone else and by the editing of the film. If you had to write that much concert music from scratch at that speed, you couldn't do it.''
  13. CopernicusDent Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2001
    star 2
    "Umm...yeah. The film's score would sound GREAT with two different orchestras playing music."


    Haha - yes, only the LSO can play coherent scores. :)

    They?d only be re-recording roughly 30 minutes worth anyway.
  14. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    Pooja-
    "So you agree that music is everything and should be worked on more than anything else, including script, dialogue, FX....?"


    Jeff-
    When did anyone ever say anything remotely like that?


    It's terrible isn't it. This fact makes AOTC my least favourite Star Wars film.

    I -think- he was implying that he put AOTC as his least favorite SW movie because of the hacked score. I'm not saying that person is dumb, it's all opinion, but I would never go as far as to say the music RUINED it.
  15. Emi-Yan_Tetu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 2
    The soundtrack is the second most important thing... behind the visuals.

    Screenplay isn't as important as soundtrack, not in Star Wars films, for me anyway.
  16. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    Well, the TPM music definitely did make me like the movie less than I would have if there had been original music instead, so I can certainly imagine how it would be possible for the problems with the score to make AotC someone's least favorite SW movie (although I think it's easily better than TPM and RotJ).
  17. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    The soundtrack is the second most important thing... behind the visuals.

    Wow...didn't think I'd ever hear THAT but okay!
  18. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Sound is as important as the visuals. ALL of the sound, not JUST the music.

  19. JediBeowulf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2001
    star 3
    I hear all this talk about how it would be "impossible" to rescore all the horrible edits that are prevalent in AOTC. The simple fact is that it is NOT at all impossible. First of all, as someone mentioned earlier, it has been done even in a Star Wars film, and second, George Lucas can easily arrange for the rescoring sessions.

    The question of the year, however, is will George Lucas go through the effort to fix this overwhelming problem in the film, or will he leave the current butchered version we have now.

    For someone who claims that the music in star wars is "like a character in the films", I certainly hope he does.
  20. jedivalens Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2001
    star 4
    is this discussion still going on? jeez.....
  21. Shloz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2001
    star 2
    Not much to add, but I'll put in my two cents.

    I admit that I don't yet own a copy of a TPM or AOTC ST, so I didn't recognize the pastes, something I generally deplore. I get irritated every time I think of the minor cut-and-pastes in ESB and ROTJ, so this sounds scandalous.

    The above stated, I was basically struck by the lack of any memorable music in the action scenes of the film (the asteroid chase, the arena battle), which seems in itself to say something.

    What I liked in the soundtrack was the use of DOTF theme for that bit in Anakin's search, and the use of Yoda's theme on the belt (tho now I understand that this was another cut-and-paste. Oh well). The underscore for Anakin's confession was wonderful (I think it was the best scene in the film). The love theme was vintage JW as well.

    However, what jarred me completely was the mangling of the End Credit music. Even without hearing the ST first, I could tell that something was wrong. The music went from the Rebel Fanfare (standard) to ATS, and then stayed there for 3 minutes. This was a big deviation from the structure of the finale for a SW film, which usually recaps the 2-3 main new themes of the film, beuatifully woven together. Even worse, I waited till the end of the credits just to hear the usual rousing fanfares at the end - only to be left waiting. That left quite a bad taste in the mouth. Now I realize that someone just pasted in the concert suite of ATS over the credit music.

    Whoever you are, couldn't you have left the fanfare at least?
  22. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Uh...there was never any fanfare.

    These prequels are tragedies, why should there be any rousing fanfare?
  23. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yeah well the end of TPM is quiet and mellow, so that part is fine. And ATS is the only main theme used in the end titles at length. The atrocity is the mangled edit INTO ATS and then of course cutting Williams' amazing ending completely. This is the travesty, not the lack of a fanfare at the end.


  24. PTGrate Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Well at the end of 11 pages, it's doubtful anyone would read my post, but ok, here goes!

    The score of AOTC on CD was great, the Love Pledge and Arena Battle track would've worked wonders on that scene!
    The track sounds like a re-arranged version of the Trade Federation theme, but more dramatic to cater for the dirt wielding Geonosians and their weird looking beasts (except the Nexu, it was interesting!)

    The Trade Federation theme being played during Obi Wan's tour of the Cloning Labs when the clones embark onto the primitive star destroyers didn't fit. And in the AOTC OST, this theme comes briefly after the Geonosian Asteroid Mini-Dogfight to suggest the Battle Droid foundries of course.
    I dunno about you, but that hit me :/

    Can anyone explain why DOTF was used while Anakin was searching? It seems to have NO link to anything, other than being cool!
  25. rafterman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 1
    I think it comes down to Lucas editing things and personally moving music around...I don't think the scoring process is the same now that he tinkers with the film right up until release...same with TPM Williams does the score, but then George redoes it and moves things around...not like the old days when the composer got the film, scored it and then it got released, there's no time now for Williams to come in after the film's done to do the music cause it's going right to the theater....
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