Tell me why half the Episode Two score is from Episode One

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Grand Moff Lars, May 16, 2002.

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  1. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Great comeback. Anyways, what are those reasons then? Scoring the film too early when that part of the film wasn't even done yet? Artistic choice? Personal preference? Any of those just don't hold up to the fact that he butched part of the movie that could have been so spectacular. :(

    There are far more reasons not to do it than the reasons you claim he had to actually do it.
  2. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I do not remember saying he had to. I said he had his reasons. I do not know the reasons. I was not there. Am not in his head. He had his reasons.
  3. CopernicusDent Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2001
    star 2
    It's funny, often when I listen to Phantom Menace music they are various cues were I anticipate Episode II score to come right along, or Menace music to be edited differently, like in the Arena Battle.

    Sometimes it's kind of jarring.
  4. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I just hope JW will rescore the battle of Geonosis for the next DVD release, because that part of the film is pure horror to listen to. If he doesn´t, it will stand out as the only great battle in the saga that does not have it´s own theme. In fact, it will not have a theme at all! :_|

    Also, he should score the conveyor belt scene and make GL put the Imperial March in the scene where Obi-Wan inspects the clones.
  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    All in all, there are four musical changes I would make:

    1. The opening scroll. For some reason, GL used the music from the beginning of TPM and it just doesn´t feel right.

    2. Inspecting the clones. Why GL chose to use the TF march at this point is beyond me. The Trade Feds have nothing to do with the clones and the Imperial March would be perfectly fitting. There isn´t room to have the entire IM theme, so the end scene with Palps looking at the clones would still be more powerful.

    3. The conveyor belt, including Anakin/Padme´s arrival at Geonosis. This scene was added late in production, so it´s understandable that it doesn´t have it´s own score. However, I see no reason for not scoring it for the box set edition(which I assume will be released some time after EpIII is out).

    4. The battle of Geonosis. It is such an important part of the film and one of only six great battles in the saga, so leaving it untouched would be unforgivable.

    Now I´m wondering about the Obi/Jango fight on Kamino: is the score for it original or "stolen" from somewhere else?
  6. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I myself never had a problem with the TPM music used for the Arena Battle and Clone War. I though the pieces chosen fit perfectly.
  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Lucky you :)

    I just watched Obi-Wan vs. Jango again and it is clear that the score for it is original. So the four changes above are the only ones I would make!
  8. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    Well, Lars, let me try to address your points...

    1. Well, when you have a film with as large of a cost as AOTC, I am sure that you would want to cut costs anywhere you could. The LSO is very expensive, and if you were planning on using the exact same music for the crawl, it would seem like throwing money away to spend precious time on it (only us purist would not see it as a waste).

    2. I commented on this on several threads...I think that this was VERY intentional. I won't go into it all, but I think that using the TF theme there is a deliberate subtext: that though they are fighting against each other, both of them are working for the same person... palpatine! So the TF theme is more likely a palpatine's puppet theme.

    3&4. Well, this is easily explained... they overestimated their ability to keep to the production schedule. If you watched the extras on the AOTC DVD, you can see how frantic they were at the end to finish. Now, I remember a few months ago reading that they had already booked the LSO for EpIII... they are not just any orchestra, you can't just book them on short notice! They had to anticipate back in the spring of 2000 when they would have enough film to record the score.

    So, what kind of backlash do you think the fans would have given if they heard that they would have to wait until November or December due to 25 minutes of music that needed to be rescored and re-recorded? Fans would have hated it, plus then AOTC would be competing with LOTR, which they didn't want to do. I think that the editing of old music was a small price to pay for getting AOTC on time.

    So mistakes were made, and problems came up... There wasn't any other solution. Perhaps when they record III they will record music to insert. But let me ask you, is it worth complaining about this for a full year?

  9. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    TenorAprentice, I think you got me wrong. I´m not complaining and I understand fully well why things were done the way they are.
    I´m just suggesting that these changes are made the next time they´re hiring the LSO.

    About point 1: Are you telling me that they didn´t even record the main title for AOTC? Isn´t there a brand new recording of it on the soundtrack CD(I haven´t heard it, so I want to know)?

    Point 2: Nice theory, but I still think that it´s the TF march.
  10. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Regarding Point #2: Remember that JW used Princess Leia's theme after Obi-Wan dies on the Death Star, and Yoda's theme during the escape from Cloud City.

    So, the "TF march" being played for the clones shouldn't be a surprise. Besides, the clones don't have a theme of their own... and using the IM in that spot just wouldn't work (might spoil the surprise and impact of the Battle of Geonosis and "Dawn of the Empire").
  11. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Why would it spoil the "surprise" for someone who is watching the films chronologically and haven´t heard the IM yet?
    But I don´t think that change will ever be made, so I´ll drop it.
  12. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    How many people have thus far watched the saga "chronologically" vs. production order?

    The IM is used (albeit subtly) prior to the finale of AOTC. And even if one did not know the IM, the TF march itself can lead folks to assume the clones is not what it really is.
  13. CopernicusDent Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2001
    star 2
    The LSO is very expensive, and if you were planning on using the exact same music for the crawl, it would seem like throwing money away

    That's why I'd highly recommend to Lucas in not using one the most expensive orchestras' on Earth, and use an orchestra that will be flexible to the frantic last-minute editorial changes.

    (Lucas knows better in treating music so artlessly.)

    But let me ask you, is it worth complaining about this for a full year?

    It's more like lamenting, but regardless, you're right.
  14. CopernicusDent Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2001
    star 2
    Besides, the clones don't have a theme of their own...

    Shouldn't their theme be Boba Fett's theme?
  15. Fettster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2003
    star 3
    Does Boba Fett have a theme? I've never noticed one.
  16. Hans_Olo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2002
    star 1
    yes, boba fett has kind of a theme, more of a motif.

    its in TESB most of the time we see him, the motif part is a short little string of notes played by bassoons.

    I dont know if the music later on for when boba is loading han into Slave I is considered a theme for him.
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