Tell me why half the Episode Two score is from Episode One

I just returned from my second viewing of AOTC. There's no question there is enough material for an ULTIMATE EDITION along the lines of the one done for TPM. There is much more original score in the first hour and a half of the film than I caught the first time.

The primary "offense" for recycled music is undoubtedly the last 40 minutes of the film, from the conveyer belt sequence until the Yoda/Dooku battle. It did not bother me the second time as it did the first, and I think that's because I knew to expect it.

PK

 

Why the heck are you people confused about the difference between reusing themes and recycling them?

Williams reused force, luke, etc..... themes during the entire original trilogy. He rerecorded the themes to blend in and perfectly match each movie.

What Lucas did with AOTC is he took tracks directly from TPM soundtrack and cut and pasted them in in the movie. They werent newly recorded for the movie. They were exactly the same! The AOTC jedi arena battle track proves this. Its like 11 minutes long. The length of pretty much the entire battle.

Lucas is an idiot.

 

Well, he certainly ain't a genious.

I dunno. I just want to blame SOMEONE. I'm not sure if Lucas is the one to blame, but it makes sense. He OWNS Star Wars, he had the final say on the flick, so he knew what was going on.

Poor Johnny...

 

Just came back from my second viewing of AOTC !

I´m shocked !!!

I really, really, REALLY like the movie VERY much. But what was Lucas thinking when he "scored" the Jedi Arena Battle ?!? It was so distracting !!!

I ´ve already recognized the recycling of TPM soundtrack when I watched it on Thursday but I had to cope with the German synchronization (which was OBSCENE) primarily.

But today I was enjoying Episode II till Anakin and Padme´s ship approaches Geonosis and later on when all the Jedis enter the arena and fight the Battle Droids. When I listened to the score I always had to think about the Gungan battle of TPM.

THIS CANNOT BE TRUE !!!

SOMEONE´S GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME !!!

This has to be fixed for the DVD release !
I´m serious ! Maybe we get the original cut of the showdown and consequently get the AOTC ORIGINAL JEDI ARENA BATTLE SCORE.

I think it´s time for a petition.

 

you guys have serious problems... williams is a musical genious, so what if he used some of the same cues from episode 1... go watch episodes 4,5 and 6... same thing happens in those too! and its hardly 'half' of episode 2... if your going to just sit here and bash john willams i suggest you just go away... i'd really, truely like to see one of you score the movie any better. untill you can, just stop your bashing....

 

Jedi,

Why dont you read all of the thread before posting something as stupid as that. Williams did not reuse same musical cues in the original trilogy.

 

For the last time for you people who seem to have low IQs.

What Williams did with the original trilogy, using force theme, luke theme, etc etc... is NOT the same with what LUCAS did with AOTC.

 

still a bunch of newbies in here... i could go on and on but i'm afraid that i have a real life to attend to. and if you people have such a problem with the movie then you should just find something else to do, go watch star trek, or something.

 

Oh God. If you're that stupid, just keep your mouth shut. Everyone posting here are huge John Williams and Star Wars fans. If they were disappointed, then THIS IS THE PLACE TO DISCUSS IT. Why do you think that only positive views can be expressed here? Are you the thought police or something?

 

Well I have been told by knowledgeable people that a few cues in the OT scores actually were recycled, but that they were limited to 10-second snippets. Nothing like the abomination Lucas created out of the AOTC score.

 

I love how people just come into a conversation and think they know exactly what's going on and that everyone is wrong.

I suppose I should just sum it up for anyone else out there who is thinking about chiming in.

There is music in AOTC from TPM. It is not recycled. It is not recomposed. It is not a variation. It IS the music from TPM. EXACTLY. Williams did not compose the music to sound like the music from TPM. IT IS THE MUSIC FROM TPM. Cut and pasted. Not by Williams.

IT IS THE MUSIC FROM TPM.

Anyone who responds to this thread saying, "You guys are being stupid, Williams always reuses his themes!" better either be joking or retarded.

Anyhoo......I just saw AOTC for the second time, and quite honestly, the butchered score didn't bother me too much. Why? Maybe because I knew what happened from last time, maybe because I knew it was coming, knew what would be in there and when, so I didn't have to pay close attention to the music and lose focus on what's actually happening in the movie.

Thankfully, I enjoyed the movie MUCH more this time around. I liked it a lot the first time, but now I simply LOVE it.

If you're only seen it once and the score bugged you enough to ruin the movie experience for you even just a little, see it again. It'll do wonders!

<ahem>

IT IS THE MUSIC FROM TPM.

 

I didn't notice the recycling during the arena battle scene. I am not going to let something like this ruin an amazing action sequence!

 

For me, the music in AOTC was it's biggest weakness. Apart from the love theme, it was all OT and TPM music!

We had DOTF during Anakin's speederbike journey. Why?

TF theme during the clone "review" on Kamino. Why?

Yoda's theme when Yoda was nowhere to be seen. Why?

etc

 

The Yoda's theme complain is bunk because it plays all over Bespin...think "Luke, it's a TRAP!!!" that's Yoda's theme. Also, it's being played while Anakin is hacking the heck out of the Geonosians...and he's thinking that he rivals Yoda as a swordsman.

The TF theme...I'm willing to bet it's because you are not really supposed to know that the Clones are going to be fighting for the republic. It would throw you off, if you didn't already know.

Duel of the Fates - because it's a cross between good and evil, much like Anakin at that point. it's a very tense theme, and that's a very tense moment.

 

No Oscar for you JW

 

The Yoda theme IS in the wrong place, in my opinion. If you listen to the film's music carefully, you realise that thematic statement is a new recording which is played when Yoda lifts the cylinder above Obi-Wan and Anakin after his duel. Now I'm sure it was scored for this moment only, because it has a lot of power behind it (the drawn out theme and trumpet blasts). So it was placed on the conveyor belt (pardon the pun) because it worked there as 'power' music, not because it was thematically correct. But who put it there? Lucas? Williams? The sound editor? Probably the latter, since both of the former have enough sense and/or wisdom to know not to slap any old theme in a certain place just because it fits.

But no, you cannot use the ESB Yoda statements as justification for this mistake in AOTC. Luke was there, using the force, rescuing his friends who he saw in a vision, and was instucted by Yoda, so it all made sense. Anakin, fighting insecty dudes on a conveyor belt on Geonosis, bares no relation to Yoda whatsoever. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Anakin hasn't actually spoken to him up until this point.

AND if one more person posts lame comments without understanding the difference between recycling music and reiterating themes, it proves they havn't read the thread, and are therefore proving that they are bored and irritating newbies who deserve flaming or gagging. So shut it.

 

First of all, it's pretty impossible to sit in a theater and know if it's the exact same music as used in the Dooku-Yoda fight. There's no way to hear exactly what's going on, so I don't believe that you can know this for a fact.

Second, it was said earlier in the movie that Anakin believes he rivals Master Yoda as a swordsman. The music was played when he was swinging that saber left and right. The ESB yoda theme is used in the exact same "echo" manner, as Yoda's warnings not to go to Bespin are being echoed by Leia as she screams "it's a trap!".

Thematic material implies deeper connections, not just "here's what's happening right in front of your face."

You don't have to agree, but I take that theme as "Anakin thinks he's as good as Yoda", and I believe that makes total sense.

As for the TPM music, it is starting to not bother me the more I think about it, and I'm also beginning to believe that JW scored it this way. Proof is in the Battle of Endor III - Superstructure Chase. there's almost nothing original in that guy, much like what happened in AOTC.

If it's recycled, then shame on GL. However, I would not yet give up hope that this is the way JW scored it.

 

Are you SURE it's completely copied and pasted?

How can you be sure? Did you listen to the CD while watching the movie?

I think what you heard was a smaller snippet from the TPM soundtrack, and you automatically assumed it was the whole thing. This isn't exactly a bad thing to do, nor are you at fault on it. I can say that I only remember hearing a little of TPM music during that final scene. I really think many people are jumping to conclusions.

 

That's all I'm saying...we really can't be sure until there's an Ultimate Edition released. If it's exactly the music that's in the movie, you'll then be able to compare and contrast. If not, then I guess that means we'd have a score, which would also reveal a lot of information.

Dangerous and disturbing this puzzle is.

 

Got to agree the re-use of Episode I music is very disappointing, and distracting on first viewing of the movie (to those of us familiar with 'Star Wars' scores). Of course, 99.9% of people who see Episode II will not notice at all and so Lucas isn't bothered about using the technique.
I know the original scores very well, and can tell the difference between a reused theme and a reused cue, so for those interested, here's a list of reused music I've heard so far:

EpII
right after the crawl
EpI
right after the crawl
10sec

EpII
Anakin and Padme discuss Shmi after his nightmare
EpI
Anakin tested by the Jedi Council
1min12

EpII
rock spire on Geonosis(right after Duel of the Fates)
EpI
Darth Maul waits at the energy gates
8sec

EpII
Dooku tells Obi-Wan about Darth Sidious
EpI
Padme views Bibble's message
50sec

EpII
Anakin and Padme arrive on Geonosis
EpI
Jedi on the Federation ship/Sidious hologram
1min30

EpII
Conveyor belt scene reuses Coruscant chase music
1min30

EpII
Arena battle
EpI
Podrace/Gungan battle/submarine/space battle
5min

EpII
Clone army arrives
EpI
Escape through Naboo blockade
1min20

EpII
droid vehicles vs troop vehicles
EpVI and EpI
sail barge and brief bit of (previously) unused EpI music
15sec

EpII
Federation starship shot down on take-off
EpI
Jedi fight the battle droids on Federation ship
18sec


That's about 12 minutes in total. Using old music for the arena battle after a presumably late re-edit is understandable (I don't LIKE it, though), but why for a scene like Anakin and Padme's conversation after his nightmare? That surely was not a late addition.

And about the use of 'Duel of the Fates', I'd say it is appropriate for use over that scene. Anakin is on his way to commit a revenge driven massacre of women and children, after all, something possibly important in his turn to the dark side, and certainly pretty evil!

 

Yes. I am absolutely positive. 100%. Not a single shadow of a doubt in my mind at all. I've listened to TPM MANY times and SEEN it many times, so I know the music, and THAT was the music.

I thought the DOTF music was very wellplaced.

 

I too think the DOTF placement is awesome. I also like the placement of Yoda's theme when Anakin is on the conveyor belt and I don't think it was slapped in by Lucas. I do however hate the repeated music from TPM during the battle sequence.

Also remember that in ROTJ there was a lot of using existing sequences of music that were rerecorded almost exactly as they appeared in other films. Most of the "Sail Barge Assault" is repeat, the previously mentioned "Superstructure Chase" is repeat and also the amazing "Light of the Force" is nothing but a rehash of the "Binary Sunset" cue from ANH.

So rerecording actual score from other films almost intact and slapping them into the newest film is not necessarily a new thing. That being said, I do not think it has ever happened on such a large scale as AOTC, nor has it ever been so distracting for the fans.

 

Oh, come on! I think that it made the whole thing a lot more familiar. Tell me that you did not get chills when the Imperial March came up from time to time, and when Anakin is on the Speeder bike and Duel of Fates kicks in...OH MAN. Over all I kinda liked how some of the music was recycled. I would have however liked a little more original rememberable music though...

 

You don't have to agree, but I take that theme as "Anakin thinks he's as good as Yoda", and I believe that makes total sense.

That statement makes no sense whatsoever. These movies are being made for people who've never seen the old trilogy. The Yoda theme means nothing to new fans. It was meant to be introduced during his duel with Dooku. George really flubbed that.

Playing the Yoda's theme during Luke's ESB scenes is a great reminder that he is carrying all of Yoda's lessons with him as he goes to face the Dark side.

I call for a vote of no confidence in this score (i.e. an internet petition )

 

I really have no prob with some of the E2 music scattered throughout E2 - I'm sure that, like all the other CD releases for the movies when they first come out, those were concert edit. Perhaps the Coruscant Chase music was supposed to go on te Conveyor Belt.

B7t the cutting of music and the addition of TPM music is irritating.