Lit Telling NU stories of significance outside the films (Was: "Meh.")

I think Marvel went with the initial titles out of safety and because those are the most popular characters. Now that TFA's been released we'll see more of the pre-TFA galaxy. We're getting Bloodline, the Poe comic, and Life Debt this year. I'm not going to judge the Canon just yet since it's only been out a relatively short time. I think a lot of what's being done though is filling in the gaps, the history that needs filling in such as was done in Tarkin. In addition we have Rebels & Battlefront to give us new characters, and a lot to look forward to in the interim period with new characters and adventures. Now will it all be significant? Probably not, but some may just be fun and that's okay too. I do agree, it seems, from what I understand (I haven't read all the books yet), that Lost Stars may be the one of the novels of the most significance.

 

There were a lot of posts I wanted to quote in agreement, but I think I can accomplish the same thing with just two words: Be patient.

The worst thing they could do right now would be to barge semi-blindly into the thirty years between Endor and Jakku. Episodes VIII and IX could potentially open up a world of possibilities for that time period that simply don't exist right now. Let's wait to tell any stories about a young Kylo Ren until we learn more about his past and about the Knights of Ren. Let's wait to tell stories about Luke's Jedi Academy until we see him on screen for more than ten seconds. Ditto the New Republic.

Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter could exist because Darth Maul's story was over (or so we thought in a pre-TCW world). Rogue Planet was OK because we knew there was a ten year gap where nothing really would happen. The Force Awakens hasn't created those kinds of opportunities (which is a good thing --- it means that it'll be a hell of a lot less separated from its sequels than The Phantom Menace was), but the ones that it has created are already starting to open up. We won't get a Kylo Ren novel now, but we are getting a Poe Dameron comic. That's awesome.

Let's all just acknowledge that the best possible course of action at the moment would be for LFL to focus their efforts on an updated Droids cartoon set between Episodes III and IV. And to write a role for Wedge in Episode VIII that Denis Lawson won't find boring.

 

I think most people in this debate will fall on one of two distinct sides. Those who are mainly Star Wars movie fans who happen to read Star Wars novels. And those who are bigger fans of Star Wars literature than they are of stuff on tv or the big screen.

I am basically a fan of the movies who has chosen to read the novels/comics as well. So I don't have any problem with the way things are because we are getting movies and tv shows which is what I really want.

 

I am a fan of both aspects, but the way TV and now the films have handled things has led me to be largely disinterested in it.

 

Being patient is one thing, having no real post-ROTJ stories of interest for the next half-decade is another thing, especially given they supposedly already have the outline of the era and the endpoint of the ST set in stone. I mean, consider how much we actually learned about Anakin's past and the Jedi in the OT. It was basically a few lines from Obi-Wan in ROTJ, half of which the PT hand-waved anyway. And then consider how completely lacking in any sort of worldbuilding TFA was. Where are we supposed to learn more about this if not in the 100% all-canon fully-level spinoffs?

I'm interested in the Leia novel and the Poe comics, but if those actually completely ignore anything of substance - like, if the Poe comic actually doesn't have anything to say about the history of Luke and his order despite it being about Poe's search for Luke, or if the Leia novel has nothing to say about Kylo Ren and his actions - then I highly doubt I'm going to waste money on future stuff, either.

 

I don't doubt that the main meat of Kylo's backstory will eventually come in novel and/or comic form, but it's too early for those spinoffs to be written. I do doubt that a lack of worldbuilding in The Force Awakens is indicative of an overarching trend for the entire trilogy; its job was to introduce us to a galaxy about which its sequels will surely have more to say. I mean, what if there had been no proposed prequel trilogy and someone had wanted to write a novel about Vader's past before Return of the Jedi went into production? It would have been The Long Hunt to the hundredth degree.

No matter what anyone at LFL says about the "one canon" nonsense, there's still an Expanded Universe that's on a lower level than the films. Episodes VIII and IX probably still have a lot to say about Kylo, and there's no point in the new EU writing its first Jedi Twilight just yet. Maybe as a lead-in to Episode VIII in an effort to dovetail with the film's script, a la Cloak of Deception being written with Luceno having read the script of Episode II.

 

The novels and comics I see as doing some fascinating groundwork, and doing some grunt-work in re-shaping our paradigms of the Star Wars universe. Both Tarkin and Battlefront: Twilight Company had some very significant paradigm shifts in reference to what we had previously thought about certain periods of time. I've seen themes throughout all media that are being nurtured and developed and built up in fascinating and coherent ways that really do enrich the entire multi-media experience. No, I don't think there's going to be a point where we're watching a movie, and a reveal important to the movie-only audience relies on them being familiar with the tie-in media.

But I DO see scenarios where there will be moments and event that those who HAVE followed the other material with have "Woah!" moments. Especially as we roll out more film and television material in this era. We're still just at the beginning of the roll-out. It's a long game, and we really are just in the groundwork phase. Pablo had suggested re-reading the JTTFA books again about a year after TFA to catch stuff you shouldn't have caught even after just watching the movie upon release. Stuff Is Happening.

I, for one, have love the puzzle-piece approach that's been going on. I've loved seeing the new connective tissue spanning from the early prequel era up through the post ROTJ era. The Sloane/Vidian link has been fascinating, and looks to continue the continuity through the End of the Empire as we know it, and likely the seeds of the First Order. This is something that has not been able to be done. We have about 50 years of material taking place inbetween on-screen stories that can now be filled out with full knowledge of the outcome of all of those on-screen stories, plus strong knowledge of what's coming (character wise and thematically) for on-screen stories for the next decade.

As much as they worked with what they had, the old EU just didn't have the ability to do this from the get-go. Because of this, we can read stories in any era, and still have 'woah!' moments that change significance of something (or characters) we thought we understood. I mean, even simple stuff like General Tagge showing up (alive!) in the Vader comic. The Battle of Endor Sloane short story. The appearance of Admiral Hux's stormtrooper reform program in the Servants of the Empire series. The Sith Shrine beneath the Jedi Temple. The broader significance of Kyber Crystals, the ubiquity of Force Temples, etc, etc. We're seeing ramifications of many of these beats throughout all media.

I'm digging it.

 

Exactly. I'm not expecting Episode 8 or 9 to reveal much more about the state of the galaxy than TFA did[n't].

If it wasn't important enough to explain things in depth for Episode 7, it's going to be even less relevant in Episode 8, because the average film audience won't care and will be much more interested in moving forward, what happens next, what Rey's training involves, what Snoke teaches Kylo, that will all be the driving force behind the next two films. They've setup what they needed for the film audience's needs: Luke had an academy, it got wiped out, and Kylo was trained by some creepy bloke.

That's all they needed to setup. And they now have.

Why are expecting Episodes 8 and 9 to reveal anymore than Episodes 5 and 6 did about Coruscant or Palpatine? We knew nothing about Palpatine after ROTJ. For years, nobody even could be certain if he was a Sith Lord or if that was just Vader's thing. So why are we expecting Episode 8 to have some detailed flashback about Snoke's youth? It's not necessary. He's the creepy villain. Creepy villains are creepy because of their mystery. They lose that when you reveal too much, so I don't expect much from the next two films. Yes, we'll learn a little bit, "Snoke was trained by Darth Vader in secret" or something like that is the extent of what I expect him to reveal to Kylo to win him over "Hey, you want to know the truth of your grandfather? I was his secret apprentice. Ignore Skywalker's lies and let me teach you who Darth Vader truly was." and there you go, that's all the film needs to do. Any depth is going to be left to outside the films, the same way TFA left it, and the same way ESB and ROTJ did too.

Which brings me back to the example I gave earlier of Shadow Hunter: yes, Darth Maul's story was over.

But then, so is the entire Galactic Senate, the Chancellor, and every single inhabitant of Hosnian Prime. Also, Lor San Tekka, who came across as a character of significance enough to warrant an execution scene, who could easily warrant his own novel and/or comic and/or anything to flesh him out some more.

Anyway, going back to Maul, how did we know for certain that Lucas wasn't going to pull the resurrection in Episode 2? Anything could have happened at that stage. Everything from TCW could have been the plot that ended up in AOTC and ROTS. We didn't know that in 1999. But they still went ahead with a novel, even when it was still wide open what Lucas was going to end up deciding to do in Episodes 2 and 3. Okay, okay, Story Group and this dream of the NEU wanting to be more consistent, but like others said, they know what the broad brush strokes of Episodes 8 and 9 are already, much more so than Lucas ever planned in advance when he did the PT, so what's the hold up? And no, I'm not saying it needs to be world shattering stuff like Jello suggested, as it doesn't. Was Darth Plagueis world shattering? No. It was an cool story, but nothing in it is really all that "important" really, as Plagueis was a minor character to ordinary people, who don't care about his backstory. Was Shadows of the Empire world shattering? Again, not really. But vice versa, when you don't focus on the film characters, why do their adventures have to be so trivial? The KOTOR comic is a shining example of the sort of thing I want more of: "unimportant" stories of "little" consequence, but which are still a lot more grand in their scale.

Heck, even look at something like Kyle Katarn. For all we joke about him, he was never important. He was just a pretty average Jedi who killed some stormtroopers. He took down some secret Imperial projects that could have been bad, but which really were just your Saturdary Morning Cartoon cliche stuff, and yet, but it was the presentation of Dark Forces or Jedi Outcast just made them feel like much more exciting adventures than they really were when you actually think about it. Rom Mohc was the most generic Imperial Warlord General of the Month archetype, but he came across special, because the story was just told in a way that made Kyle Katarn feel legendary, even when in all honesty, he was a bit player of little consequence compared to Luke Skywalker or even most of the other Jedi characters of the early New Republic period.

Maybe this is where me having first gotten into Star Wars through the video games is showing, and where the complete absence of any decent games (I hate Battlefield and have zero interest in buying Battlefront) is where the biggest omission is in my case, as I want some decent stories I can play through an experience, but right now, I'm just seeing the same generic filler that padded out the worst periods in the EU's history.

 

I actually feel like the old republic era would be a natural point to tell new stories at this time, between how popular KOTOR is, the fact that (like TOTJ was in the 90s) it's a way to tell stuff that doesn't conflict with the upcoming movies, and the fact that they've sprinkled lots of hints about the timeframe but don't seem like they'll be doing a movie set in it any time soon, if at all.

But I feel like TOR is actually why we're not seeing any ancient-era NEU stories, Lucasfilm probably doesn't want to "confuse" audiences by having a new EU story set in the same general timeframe that their continuing old EU story is set.

 

I'm pretty much with Jello in that the stories they have done have been highly enjoyable and haven't resorted to the type of moves that the Denningverse did in the name of 'impact' i.e. kill characters, destroy worlds. That there's a focus on new characters at all is refreshing, never mind the more subtle recasting of the OT's structures into something more complex, yet still avoiding being relative.

Yet, on the other hand, I expected a big, brassy announcement of stuff post-TFA release and instead we've got? Two novels, handful of junior releases and one comic series, all set pre-TFA. It seems strangely timid. If this is a planned trilogy and they really do know where the story is going then they can be far more ambitious on the stories they tell and release. They can do bridge stories ahead of the next movie that really do work as such, while spinning other tales to enhance TFA. Yet instead they seem to be holding back to see what Ep 8 now does, yet they should know that, shouldn't they?

 

The thing is, even small throwaway lines from the films can dictate much of a character's past. Dooku revealing that he was Qui-Gon's master, Palpatine revealing that he had a master named Plagueis --- what if someone had wanted to write the Palpatine biopic book that was Plagueis in 2001? It would have been way too early. There's still so much we don't know about Kylo, and I don't think any of us believe that Luke isn't going to reveal anything to Rey about how Kylo destroyed the New Jedi Order. Is he going to say "Well, you're here, I'll train you and don't ask any questions about what I've been up to"? No, of course not.

I'm not asserting that Episode VIII will be full of exposition, but even a two-minute conversation between Luke and Rey about Luke's past could lay the groundwork for a whole series of novels. For sure the actual depth of stories about Kylo's past will be left to the EU, but that depth will still be based on info from the films, most of which we haven't yet been given. Luke's been onscreen for about ten seconds so far, and the average SW film is dying to learn more about what he's been up to. It goes without saying that Episode VIII will deliver on that expectation --- no, it won't be the driving force of the film, but even if it's only a few sentences, it will still be the groundwork on which any novels about his Jedi Academy and Kylo's role in it will have to be based.

We could get a Shadow Hunter-like novel about Kylo going on some mission for Snoke just before TFA that doesn't reveal anything about his past, but I feel like that kind of novel would benefit from waiting until the author can get info from Episode VIII's script. That way it could talk about his past even a little bit and be a more marketable, relevant, and interesting story. Know his motivations before getting inside of his head.

I'd say those kinds of stories are coming sooner than a lot of people here seem to think. I can see the announcement of the Poe Dameron comic as being the harbinger of what's on the horizon, and bridge stories between the two trilogies I'd guess as coming in 2018 in order to coordinate better with the film as it nears completion, and also to generate more interest in it.