Testing is such a pain.

Discussion in 'Fan Sites' started by Ardens_Furore, Jul 27, 2003.

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  1. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    I was installing Mozilla 1.4 to make sure my pages looked the same as in Netscape 7 but apparently they can't keep two separate profiles, without having to ask you to switch every time (and also overrides your start page, too). Using the same profile screws up the settings. Testing is such a pain. I had to download Opera 7 (ew... it's a browser that's not open source or free). So now I have it installed in order to do some testing. The ad just keeps popping up. Testing with IE5 is worse. I had to install Win98 again in order to get an installation of IE5. Not going to bother with IE4, IE3, Netscape 4.x: none of them support proper CSS anyway.
  2. Valiowk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 6
    Truth be told, in your case I would probably just get my hands on a school computer which has not yet been upgraded and then test the website. I don't think it's worth the effort to install all kinds of programs on one computer to test a website.

    Furthermore, if you hand code your website most of the time, and you've been doing it all along, I think that you should have a pretty good idea of what works well on lower version browsers.
  3. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    Well, my university uses Mozilla 1.3, my old high school switched to WinXP Pro, so they're using IE6.

    I'm really only interested in CSS2 capable browsers. The CSS doesn't even work in the old ones, and I get a really strange looking page (everything's readable, but there are strange decorative images that get misplaced, and it looks odd). The main problem is that different browsers interpret the standard differently. I'd really like to have one of the few sites that look exactly the same in all the major CSS2 browsers, without sacrifing the layout or imagery. That's really why I have to test it out so thoroughly.

    If anyone has Konqueror or IE/Mac, I'd be interested in arranging for a quick test.
  4. Lobot_Omy Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2001
    star 6
    And after all that your site will still look screwed up on a Mac. :p
  5. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    I've never tested on a Mac. I don't even know where the nearest Mac is in relation to me. So... if it doesn't work, then there's really no way I'll know (and even if I did, there's no way I can fix it without a lot of work).
  6. MaxVeers TFN FanFilms Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    I'm one of those browser elitists who thinks that since upgrading is free, no one has an excuse to use an older version.
  7. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    I'm one of those elitists that think if I can't view your site with my browser, I'll just go elsewhere. Sites that require Flash 6, I hit back right away. Sites that require whatever ActiveX control, hit back.

    Hell, when my site is done, I know browsers without CSS won't look pretty, and I expect readers to turn away. It doesn't bother me but it is unfortunate.

    Upgrading the software may be free, but sometimes software needs a faster computer than you can afford. Or, perhaps the person doesn't want to upgrade.
  8. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    Or you are still on a crappy modem connection. Not everyone around the world, heck not even the US is on braodband connections. And there are still a few people with small monitors or old video cards that won't do more than 800x600.

    Besides, what if you are using a text briowser like lynx?

    I'm elitist in another way, I like and expect HTML compliancy. I too turn away from a lot of Flash sites (especially if they don't have a plain version).
  9. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    It's really funny, my site looks better in Lynx than it does in Netscape 4.x. It's because Lynx doesn't know CSS, whereas Netscape 4.x knows some but doesn't get the rest right. I just resort to hiding my CSS from Netscape.
  10. Lobot_Omy Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2001
    star 6
    I don't bother about Netscape 4. It's too much of a pain in the arse.
  11. Darth_Imran Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    I don't bother with configuration for Netscape or Mozilla. I tend to stick with IE, simply because it's the most used web browser.
  12. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    People, it's not that hard to make a site that works with Mozilla and IE. They both are able to render the same code in the same way. There's no excuse not to test it out on both since they're both free.
  13. Lobot_Omy Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah, I just don't bother with Netscape 4.x because everything always looks messed up in it.
  14. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    Exactly. The problem when using tools lik Frontpage which introduce all sorts of non-compliant crap. Sticking to the specs and asy validating with the W3C utilities and you can be sure it'll be viewable in most cases.

    The other thing is check your logs. Between 17 and 20% of the visitors to my site are Netscape and Mozilla users, so that's quite significant. I did have additional requirements because as I found out the hard way, many people at ILM were still on Irix which only had NS 3 or 4 and which couldn't display CSS. even the logs this month I had 24 NS3 requests. Most NS users that hit my site are NS4, followed a bit far behind by NS6.

    So don't be too sure about everything ebing IE6 everywhere.
  15. Obitachi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    No one likes an Elitist ;)

    Right now I'm using AOL version 3.0 with IE3. I can't upgrade because my comp can't handle a later version. (I shudder to think of this relic as 'mine', my REAL computer broke down, so now I'm stuck with this ... thing. I think it was created about the same time as the Great Pyramids of Giza.)

    Anyway, before my computer died (RIP), I always tried to test in as wide a variety of browsers and systems as possible. I have an unnatural obbsession with style sheets and use 'em for all my designs. But I always tried to make sure the layout would look at least half-way decent in older computers. Sometimes that means sacrificing a bit of CSS purity for the ole HTML font tag.

    Unfortunately, as I'm now learning, not many people bother with coding for these old machines anymore. Even this site looks pretty grotesque, if I hadn't become addicted to this board before, I'd probably run away screaming.
  16. Lobot_Omy Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2001
    star 6
    That's what I did the first time visited this place. :D :p
  17. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    It's unfortunate my site isn't going to look nice on older browsers (you can read it just fine, it'll just be a plain HTML page with some strange graphics). It's for people like Obitachi that people shouldn't use the latest features or expect the latest browser. I make it a point to at least have content that's still usable. It's just not pretty. And that's the most I can do.
  18. Obitachi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Well I wouldn't say that people shouldn't use the latest features at all. They should just keep in mind that not everyone has access the same equipment. If you absolutely must have SuperKewlNewTech version 9.8 on your website then you should provide a simple functional alternative.

    It doesn't have to pretty as long as it works, people will be happy. :)

  19. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    I agree with you, I really mean that one can use the latest features, but don't make it the only way the site can be viewed.
  20. Darth_Kevin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2001
    star 5
    The main thing to keep in mind is not so much that different people may be using different software as much as different operating systems. Linux and MacOS users have no ability to use IE even if they wanted to do so. Mozilla is supposedly based on the web standard, so Mozilla alone should be enough for testing.
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