JCC ''That movie'' in Benghazi.

Discussion in 'Community' started by BaronNoir, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    The Onion

    EDIT: The illustration is definitely NSFW. And pretty darned gross. Unless you're into that kind of thing
    Last edited by yankee8255, Sep 17, 2012
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    But that's the point, isn't it yankee? Put Mohammed in there, and people have to die apparently. It's ridiculous.
  3. yankee8255 Force Ghost

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    May 31, 2005
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    Exactly. For all the religious nut jobs in certain parts of the US, if an Iranian loser posted a video depicting Jesus in an unflattering way, not even the Westboro Baptist Church would consider storming the Iranian embassy and killing the ambassador.
  4. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Oct 3, 2003
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    I work with many Muslims and they would never behave in such a way, I do think such radical behaviour is largely a product of living in a less free society as many of the Middle East countries are.

    Plenty of radical people hijack peacful legitimate protests and use it as an excuse to engage in voilent acts, it happened in London last year and has happened before. It is not a representation of everybody.
  5. Ender Sai Chosen One

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  6. Condition2SQ Jedi Grand Master

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    What makes it a metaphysical certainty that they will "learn" this? The words of Christ provided a fairly straightforward rationale for this kind of reform in Christianity ("Render unto Caesar..."). The Qu'ran contains no such equivalent verse. Of course many Muslims undoubtedly independently reach this conclusion and advocate for it, but that's not necessarily a testament to Islam, it's a testament to the individual Muslim. That's why it's so important that we empower and promote Muslims like Irshad Manji and Zuhdi Jasser instead of slippery figures like Tariq Ramadan, not to mention stop sneering at and marginalizing apostates like Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq who live with bounties on their heads.

    The reason why I put "learn" in quotation marks above is that I don't believe in any "objectively" true principles of governance. People seem to be operating under the assumption that our system is the manifestly "true" system of governance and that it is an inexorable reality that the Muslim world will get there eventually("the arc of history bends towards justice" kind of thing). Yet the development and theorizing of classical liberal society depended on some very contingent historical realities, and not believing that the Qu'ran was the Divine Guidance for Mankind, or being surrounded by a mileu that believed this and would persecute and marginalize you if you didn't, was one of them.

    Derivative of my thinking that our system isn't objectively "true", I don't think our system can be said to be objectively "better"(though I would maintain that the manifest non-existence of Allah and the terrestrial provenance of the Qu'ran are quite important points to emphasize). The problem is that we all live on the same Earth, and there is much tension between the two systems. If there's one thing any society does have a right to do, in my opinion, it's too protect itself and its fecundity, which goes for both sides. We don't have to make any apologies for defending our way of life. This is why I am vehemently against Obama's drone program--how does he think Muslims are going to respond to this systematic murder of their co-religionists?
    Last edited by Condition2SQ, Sep 17, 2012
  7. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

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  8. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

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    Fixed.
    SithLordDarthRichie likes this.
  9. Ender Sai Chosen One

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  10. yankee8255 Force Ghost

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    May 31, 2005
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    I have. I can only describe it as bizarre. Not sure I actually saw one native the whole time I was there, it's expat heaven.

    Interesting article in Spiegel about a group of Syrian opposition activists and their view on the rioting, essentially asking why Assad kills hundreds of thousands of Muslims and there's not even the slightest sign of protest outside a Syrian embassy, but some jackass makes a derogatory movie about the prophet and Western embassies come under siege throughout the Middle East. As one of the activists said, maybe the Syrian opposition needs to make a movie.

    Sorry it's only in German, couldn't find any English-speaking media sites with the story. Have fun with google translate.
  11. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

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    Jun 21, 1999
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    Hm. Perhaps my comment is born out of ignorance of Islam but mostly out of disdain to any and all religions, but since when is a mortal (i.e. intrinsically FLAWED) prophet is more reverred or important than the deity to which it prophetized? So much so that to even depict him in any way or form is an automatic death sentence? How did that happen?
  12. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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    So is visually depicting God also forbidden in Islam?
  13. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

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    In Islam, like Judaism, G-d doesn't have physical form.

    Bizarro Christians and their "G-d is transcendental, but not so transcendental that he can't also father a child."
  14. Debo Force Ghost

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    Holy sanctimonious balls, Beth. Really.
  15. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

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    I'm just saying... the Abrahamic tradition is built around the divine not having physical form. Jesus the son, who was physical, is a weird outlier. One can't approach Islam from that start point and try to understand it, especially since Islam explicitly repudiates the Christian idea of anything physical being descended from G-d.
    Last edited by Dark Lady Mara, Sep 18, 2012
  16. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

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  17. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I don't think physicality has a thing to do with it, since we're talking about the depiction of the Islamic Prophet--who WAS an actual physical person: a person who could also create children. In fact, an entire caliphate descended from his daughter Fatimah.

    Physicality seems irrelevant since we're not talking about Allah here, we're talking about portrayals of an actual person.

    So yes--while they also disapprove of imagery of Allah (as you answered in your response), that doesn't help us understand their mindset here.

    It's about idolatry. Always was. Christianity had the same issues for a while too.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Sep 18, 2012
  18. Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One

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  19. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

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    I gotta avoid these religious threads; I always find myself with the urge to preach.
  20. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 19, 1999
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    Honestly, I suppose we're all getting a bit off-topic, and I apologize if I offended anyone with my previous posts.

    The real reason people are rioting in Benghazi and other cities probably has little to do with religious beliefs per se.
  21. GargantuanThrillMachine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 1
    holding. back. so. many. comments. HERNIAAA
  22. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
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    So, what does everyone think of the White House's request that Google pull the video, and of Google's refusal to comply?

    Ethical or unethical?
    Last edited by Dark Lady Mara, Sep 18, 2012
  23. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    They wanted Google to review if it violated its own Terms of Service policy. Basically "flagging" it for review.