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CT That Old Man Anakin

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by WhinyLuke, Sep 22, 2012.

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  1. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Does becoming One with The Force mean that you lose your identity, regardless if it's the LightSide or the DarkSide of the Force???? Does becoming one with the Force meaning losing your identity or keeping your identity after your death???

    Oneness cannot be achieved with the DarkSide of the Force, I have no idea where you're are getting your yo info information on this from!!!!
     
  2. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    You have "no idea", yet the source is cited right in the quoted part of your post. Right.
     
  3. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    There are no quotes or ciations........
     
  4. Yunners

    Yunners Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2006
    In the rough draft… Ben explains that… if "Vader becomes one with the dark side of the Force, he will lose all identity. If he turns to the good side, he will pass through the Netherworld" and in the revised rough draft, Yoda "will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force."

    --Laurent Bouzereau, Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays

    --Laurent Bouzereau, Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays


    --Laurent Bouzereau, Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays

    I'm pretty sure there's one in there somewhere.
     
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  5. MandalorianWrath

    MandalorianWrath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Samuel Vimes :

    Your last post has convinced me that the theory I had come up with was flawed.

    Unfortunately then, it is probably impossible to identify a working pattern in how the ghosts work and why they look the way they look, other than "Well, why not?"

    Thanks for the discussion, which I have enjoyed very much.
     
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  6. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    You are most welcome and I have enjoyed it as well.
    Stimulating discussion is fun and gives the brain a little work out.

    As for Force Ghosts, possibly the least complicated theory is residual self-image. How we look is a part of our self-image. We know what we look like without having to look in a mirror all the time. And if our apperance has changed then it can cause quite a shock when we do look in the mirror.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
     
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  7. Yunners

    Yunners Jedi Master star 2

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    Mar 30, 2006
    Well said, Your Grace.
     
  8. Jarren_Lee-Saber

    Jarren_Lee-Saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 16, 2008
    to make things even BETTER - do this:
     
  9. Blur

    Blur Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 1999
    Logically, it makes sense to see a young longer-haired Hayden as the Anakin force ghost, because this is what he looked like prior to being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. However, the addition has problems: First of all, the younger Anakin looks out of place next to the old Obi-wan and Yoda. Plus, the Hayden ghost isn't even looking in Luke's direction, like Yoda & Obi-wan are! .

    Conversely, from an Emotional stand-point, I strongly prefer the old man Sebastian Shaw Anakin - this is what the old Anakin looked like when he was one with the Force and at peace, after Luke had saved him. Plus, it coincided with the old man Luke saw after he took off Darth's helmet. The scene when the three of them are standing there looking at Luke with pride & approval is one of the best sequences of the OT, and the perfect ending to the Saga.
     
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  10. oierem

    oierem Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    On the contrary, I'd say that the young Anakin logically doesn't make more sense than the old Anakin (although talking about the logic of a ghost is not logical), but emotionally it works much better (if you watch the whole saga in order, of course).
     
  11. Alessandro Sanfilippo

    Alessandro Sanfilippo Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 16, 2013
    Old guy over Young Anakin
     
  12. Yondo Kuromu

    Yondo Kuromu Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Oct 18, 2013
    That's because George Lucas's explanation doesn't make any sense. He said that the last time Anakin was good, it was like 20 years ago Hayden Christensen Anakin Skywalker, but others argue that the last time he was good, he was the Sebastian Shaw Anakin Skywalker who threw the Emperor off the Death Star. That was the point on removing Darth Vader's mask to reveal his face and show it again when he appears as the Force Ghost. Otherwise, removing the mask or not wouldn't make any difference.
    The reason why he has his hair restored, scares gone and limbs back could be because that when some part of the light side being is gone, it will be rejoiced into the Force. Thus, this is how he got his hair and other parts of the tissue lost back when he returns as a Force ghost.
    To be honest, I didn't like Yub Nub, I liked the Special Editions music, didn't mind them adding certain scenes of Coruscant, but wished they never added "Weesa FREEEE" in Naboo.
     
  13. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 23, 2000
    But Shaw's Anakin had been evil throughout his career as Darth Vader before he decided to toss the Emperor down the reactor core and get electrocuted in the process. Plus, he hasn't seen his own face ever since he put on the Vader mask so it makes logical sense why Anakin would see himself looking like Hayden when his ghost appears at the end of ROTJ.
     
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  14. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 1999
    It has a logic to it but depends on Force Ghosts working like residual self-image in the Matrix, and they may or may not. Also, we don't even know if Vader saw his own face. For all we know there are mirrors or scanning equipment in his private pod chamber thing.
     
  15. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    For some people, Haydakin is so repulsive that no amount of logic can excuse his appearance. That's really all it is and there's nothing wrong with it.
     
  16. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000

    Even if Vader saw his own face, he would be horrified beyond belief that he now looks like one of Pinhead's minions from "Hellraiser". It would explain why Vader never took his mask off until his death scene in ROTJ.
     
  17. Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan

    Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 22, 2013
    Do we know that for sure? Is there a place within canon that states that Vader never removed his mask - even for a short period of time?
     
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In the RoTJ novel, speaking of Vader's face, it said "It was a face that had not seen the sunlight in 20 years".

    This allows for the occasional removal of the mask, on-planet rather than in-chamber, in the first year or two after RoTS. This happens in Darth Vader & the Lost Command.

    We do see Vader without his mask in ESB (or at least, we see the top of his head) - but that's not in a sunlit environment.
     
  19. Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan

    Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 22, 2013
    I think your quote is telling... we could "interpret" that as - he hasn't had his mask off in 20 years... however taken literally it could suggest that within his private chambers - or in a specialized environmentally controlled setting - he could survive for short periods without the mask.
    And in ESB, I thought we only saw Vader's helmet off, not the entire mask...
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The helmet, when taken off, exposes the face in RoTJ - my guess was that it was that same component being lowered onto Vader's head in ESB.

    Or at the end of RoTS.
     
  21. TX-20

    TX-20 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 21, 2013
    I prefer "Old Man" Anakin simply because it is that Anakin that returns to the light.
     
  22. Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan

    Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 22, 2013
    If you look closely in ESB - you can see the top of the mask that covers his forehead and the front of his skull before the "helmet" is lowered into place.... I'll have to rewatch and slow down - but my impression has always been that only the helmet was removed in that scene and not the full mask...
     
  23. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 22, 2003
    Trust George to take a bad scene and make it even worse .
     
  24. Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan

    Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 22, 2013
    LOL.... tinkerer & putterer.... always can make it just a bit worse than before....
     
  25. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Movieverse only, Qui-gon had lived a different life from the other Jedi. During the last years of his life, he had dedicated himself to the Force in such a way that when he died, he was able to transcend death. The other Jedi couldn't do it, because they were still following the path of training from a thousand years earlier. He was able to hold onto his mind, but he couldn't do more and had not been certain that his beliefs could work.

    Expanded universe, Qui-gon had heard the voice of a fallen Jedi that he was close to, a few years earlier. This lead him to wonder about how contact could be made from the netherrealm of the Force and thus began seeking out the knowledge of such abilities. In doing so, he began to try and practice retaining his identity, but had yet to know if he could achieve it, when the Battle of Naboo rolled around.

    Yes, but in showing Anakin's younger self versus his older self, there's pivotal difference that is being made. The older self is the result of not only physical aging, but of the dark side corrupting what was left of his body. By taking it back to his younger self, it is without the corruption of the dark side. On top of being physically whole without any of his scars and all limbs present. It would probably be the same way with Dooku, if he had turned back before dying and was helped into retaining his physical form, he would probably look like he did circa TPM and not AOTC, TCW and ROTS.
     
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