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The 12th EUC Starfighter Draft: Death Shovel - Come discuss the Future!

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by PRENNTACULAR, Jan 5, 2008.

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  1. TypoCelchu

    TypoCelchu Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Gotta love the "I don't have stuff, so I'm voting for the worst of the two" rule. Runt is nowhere near the level that Garn is on.

    Basically, if you want a simplistic explaination of what Garn did, he was with Ace Azzameen for everything that Ace did after Hoth. Which is a considerable amount. And he was at Endor.

    Can I provide page numbers and such to back up my assertions? No. He comes from a videogame. But that doesn't make what he accomplished less. And it certainly doesn't put him on Runt's level. I mean, Runt is pretty much useless without Kell there to keep his crazy horse ass in line, and even then he's suspect. And, as Kell doesn't happen to be here, I'd say that he's very outmatched.

    At any rate, I just made an arguement for Garn not even a few pages ago, if memory serves me right, so I found it a waste to rehash the same statement again, since nothing particularly new happened in that short amount of time. ;)
     
  2. Jaina Byrd

    Jaina Byrd Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 1999
    Yeah, this draft started forever ago.
     
  3. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral VIP star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Well, that's a different tune than you were singing a few drafts ago ...
     
  4. adaml83

    adaml83 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2004
    o_O I seem to recall you talking about Redemption, and all sorts of stuff that is beyond what we can factually prove. We can prove about a year of Garn's accomplishments, about the same amount as Runt. Skill is debatable, since it says he's a skilled pilot, means little with this group.

    Thank you for going back to the well that is Wraith Squadron, and bringing up a problem that is irrelevant by the end of that book. Besides I seem to recall that Runt never had to eject from his X-wing during the Wraith Squadron trilogy, which speaks quite a bit about his skill.
     
  5. TypoCelchu

    TypoCelchu Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Not quite. A few drafts ago I had Jake Farrell on my squad, and I made the same point. Besides, it is certainly advisable for a GM to make another GM's team look bad, ya know. ;)

    At any rate, Adam, I think we can safely say that the time period and odds that Garn faced were much worse than Runt ever saw, considering Garn faced the actual empire, and the Wraiths were facing a warlord that was well known for running and hiding. As far as the Redemption claim, it's not hard to read up on it and see that Red Squadron was there, under Ace, and as Garn was a pilot in Red Squadron, under Ace, he would very likely be there. No jumps of logic there, as far as I can tell, but maybe I'm not as insightful as you.

    But if you really want a test of skill, how about the two A-wings v. entire ISD TIE compliment AND blastboats that I so often continue to mention.
     
  6. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral VIP star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    I was actually referring to your last trip into the world of judging.
     
  7. TypoCelchu

    TypoCelchu Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2005
  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
  9. KenKenobi

    KenKenobi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Wait...this isn't the SFD?

    Oh, okay. I thought it was.
     
  10. Kyptastic

    Kyptastic VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Sorry guys, I've been a bit sick lately.

    Going to go with Garn.

    Grand Final


    Match 1 Sgt Peppers (1) vs. What is Cloverfield? Squadron (1)

    Game 3

    Number 4

    Match 1 Tal'dira vs. Tyria Sarkin Tainer
     
  11. adaml83

    adaml83 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Tyria- a)Tal'dira didn't last that long, nor is it easy to gauge how good he is since there's a low sampling of Twi'lek pilots. b)Tyria wasn't the greatest when she started, but being picked for Wedge's squadron in Fury speaks a lot in her favor. Then there's the Force.
     
  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    plus Tal'dira hops on one transparisteel leg. That damned alien.

    Tyria.
     
  13. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2002
    whaaaat. Way to wait like a week on the easy match and blow through the one that is close.


    edit: While you say it isn't easy to assess how good Tal'dira is, it is much easier to assess Tyria. She is the one who would have flunked out of training if her scores hadn't been doctored! On the other hand, we know Tal'Dira was good enough to be invited into Rogue Squadron and within months was commissioned as a Lieutenant.
     
  14. adaml83

    adaml83 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2004
    You don't assess them from their training skills, you assess their skill from their most recent activity. She's done a lot of flying since her training days.
     
  15. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2002
    Not that much. And there is only so much that experience can make up for having basically 0 innate skill.

     
  16. adaml83

    adaml83 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2004
    0 innate skill, then there's a lot of pilots that are in the negative numbers.

    Or I can simply chalk it up to your usual exaggerations.
     
  17. KenKenobi

    KenKenobi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Are we still doing the animal thing?

    Cause I got one. Camel-ot.

    Get it? Camels.
     
  18. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2002

    Please. If she's not close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of innate skill, you're insane. She was || this close to flunking out of piloting.
     
  19. adaml83

    adaml83 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Let me ask you a question, and I'll ask it slowly, is her skill level as of completing training, anywhere close to where it is now?

     
  20. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2002
    More or less. You don't magically become more significantly more skilled. Tal'Dira was good enough for Rogue Squadron, he's certainly more skilled than some should have flunked out of flight school pilot.
     
  21. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Wedge didn't pick flunkies because they were flunkies, he picked flunkies that he knew were better than that. You recall, he had a conversation with her about this very thing.
     
  22. Aragorn327

    Aragorn327 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2001
    "Wedge, handpick a starfighter squadron. We'll use it to chase the shuttle to safety aboard the Anakin Solo, then to support any operation against Centerpoint Station." -Skywalker

    She was handpicked for Rakehell Squadron by Wedge Antilles. I fail to see why there is any indication she would have zero to negative skill, considering that even with the Wraiths, Antilles confirmed that she deserved to be there regardless of her training situation.
     
  23. adaml83

    adaml83 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Well can also chalk it up to the absurdly high standards that the SFD generates, and NYJ is one of the worst offenders.
     
  24. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2002
    Of course Wedge is going to handpick her- she was an actual fighter pilot and worked with him before, who else is he going to take for an ad hoc squadron made up of Jedi and few other random folks?


    And, you know, Wedge basically handpicked Tal'Dira for Rogue Squadron- he could ask anyone he wanted to be it.


    You're right, saying she has 0 skill is clearly hyperbole. But just as clear is that she is at the low end of SFD pilots in that regards. She's a legitimate 7th or 8th rounder, sure. But Tal'dira is easily that also, and basically anything you can apply in Tyria's favor (in regards to Wedge picking her and stuff; Also, within months of joining Rogue Squadron Tal'Dira makes Lieutenant) can be applied to Tal'Dira, and at a higher level because it was only his piloting skills that Wedge was after. Her only advantage is the force, which against a non-human she barely knows is not much of an advantage.


    And, for what its worth, I'm more annoyed that I didn't get to a chance to even put an argument up for what can't possibly be seen as an obvious match, whereas we had to wait forever for a clear match that preceded it.
     
  25. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
     
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