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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Games The 13th Jedi Draft: Only a Bith Deals in Absolutes. Congrats to our winner. All hail Point Given!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by heels1785 , Mar 14, 2014.

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  1. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    I also think respect for TOTJ characters has dropped too low. They were overrated for a while, but this is an over correction that now has them generally underrated.


    Except for Thon
     
  2. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    go read it again inty. there's not exactly that much to respect... the fights aren't impressive, the overall level of powers presented is unimpressive, it's all just really meh. before i actually read any of it i had to go off of how everyone else was basing things. having actually gone to the source material finally, and having been able to form my own opinions, there's frankly no way kun or ulic should have ever been considered as highly as they were. to me. when their stories first came out, or when the drafts first started, there simply wasn't as much to compare them to, so what they did held more weight, but now? there's so much more, and what they did just isn't impressive by comparison. if others want to continue to view them the same, i'd challenge them to go reread stuff, see if their opinion stays the same or not. it's not like TOTJ takes that long to read.
     
  3. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    As I said, they were overrated. Vastly. But the correction the other way has, in my opinion, gone too far. You read it and say there is nothing there. I read it and say there is plenty there. Do we get every action scene like we do with modern comics and cartoons? Nope. Do we get throwaway characters who are around JUST to show us how great the main characters are? Nope. Are they needed to show power and skill? Nope.

    Show me anyone else that has demonstrated Ulic's skill AFTER being cut off from the Force. Use that as your frame of reference, and You child reasonably argue that TOTJ characters have the MOST skill with a lightsaber.

    TOTJ characters are the vintage Boise State football teams. Depending on your frame of reference, you either say "wow, impressive, undefeated again, they could contend with the big boys", or "yawn, undefeated, call me when they play a real schedule"
     
  4. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    i didn't say there was nothing there, i'm saying that what is there, lacking more to compare it to in context, doesn't impress me.
     
  5. Darth_Furio

    Darth_Furio Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Exar Kun paralyzing the whole Senate is pretty impressive. I know reputation doesn't count for much here but he was highly regarded. He sought knowledge, taught himself and implemented that knowledge. He's top 20 IMHO.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion obviously.
     
  6. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Exar and Ulic are great. Nobody else particularly impresses me. Not saying Shaak Ti is a powerhouse, either, but I am leaning towards voting for her. Judges, let's shoot for a decision by tomorrow or Sunday, start the next round early next week.
     
  7. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Well I've done what I can, so feel free to judge mine.
     
  8. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Ganner Rhysode, Shaak Ti, Leia Solo (prep)
     
  9. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    pretty much how i was leaning on all of those as well, so i'll agree.
     
  10. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Skywalker defeats Mikaboshi, 5-4-1
    Minch 5, Jordan 5 - TEAM BATTLE
    Furio defeats COH, 7-3
    Point Given defeats TLI, 6-4

    Yodaminch
    Jordan1Kenobi

    Try to have arguments in by midnight Monday if possible. Thanks.
     
  11. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    I...beat Mika?

    Apparently third time is the charm...
     
  12. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi SWC Jedi Draft Champion star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I've got an argument prepared, so I'll post it later today.
     
  13. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi SWC Jedi Draft Champion star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Yoda, Satele Shan, Exile, Leia Organa Solo, Ahsoka Tano, Corran Horn, Kit Fisto, Aayla Secura, Bastila Shan and Tholme vs. Lord Vitiate, Darth Bane, Darth Plagueis, Darth Traya, Lord Scourge, Darth Sion, Mother Talzin, Jerec, Darth Talon and Gethzerion

    Here's how I'd compare our teams:

    Lord Vitiate = Yoda - Both incredibly powerful. I'd say Vitiate is more powerful and shown this when he owned Revan and Malak without trying. Yoda would have the better skill, but could he get around his powers of turning others to the Dark Side?
    Darth Bane > Satele Shan - It'd be pretty close without preparation, but I'd still put Bane above her. With preparation he gets his orbalisk armour, so I don't see her beating him.
    Darth Plagueis > Exile - It took Exile and two others to defeat Nihilus, and Plagueis is better than him.
    Darth Traya < Leia Organa Solo - Traya may suck, but I still think it'd be close, considering she took down three Jedi Council members simultaneously using Force drain.
    Lord Scourge > Ahsoka Tano - Scourge has taken down hundreds of Jedi and Sith and never been defeated until he fought the Hero of Tython. There is no way that Ahsoka could possibly be better than all of them, especially since Vitiate considered some of them a threat.
    Darth Sion > Corran Horn - It's gonna take someone more powerful than Corran to take Sion down.
    Mother Talzin > Kit Fisto - There's too much Talzin can do. And if she can stalemate Windu she can take down Kit.
    Jerec > Aayla Secura - Jerec was pretty powerful and has put up a fight against Kyle, who is definitely better than Aayla.
    Darth Talon < Bastila Shan - Both skilled, but I think Bastila is a bit more impressive.
    Gethzerion > Tholme - There's too much Gethzerion can do.

    This is a battle between a team of powerful Sith and Nightsisters who can do all sorts of things against a team of skilled Jedi, with only very few that have shown that they could take down their opponents without relying on their lightsaber. Both of our top three are really good with both Force power and skill, but I think my three are a bit too powerful for the others, especially with preparation, because Vitiate can do all sorts, Bane has his orbalisk armour and Plagueis can do some crafty stuff considering he was a master of esoteric and unnatural aspects of the Force. Vitiate could even take out the lower half of the other team by himself if he wanted, while the others finish everyone else off, considering he took out Braga's strike team, which had five Jedi, and turned them to the Dark Side by himself without trying.

    I also think I have a much stronger lower half, because of Talzin and Gethzerion, who have both shown that they can take on an opponent of a top tier level. They should have no problem at all taking out the lower half opponents with the help of the others in my team. Traya, Scourge, Sion, Jerec and Talon just add more power and skill to my team, plus Traya and Sion have knowledge of Exile and Bastila. A good amount of my team have also shown they are very capable of fighting and even defeating multiple opponents at once. Vitiate took down five Jedi. Traya took down three Jedi. Bane and Talon fought three Jedi. And who are they all fighting here? A team of Jedi.

    Preparation gives a better advantage to my team, because most of them have really useful stuff they can prepare for, specifically Vitiate, Bane, Plagueis, Traya, Talzin and Gethzerion. What can the other team prepare for that could possibly give them an advantage to take down this powerful team? All they could do is study each of their opponents. They've got no extra things like sorcery, special armour or unnatural abilities that only very few are capable of for example. Sure some of them probably have a few tricks up their sleeves, but nothing that my team can’t handle.
     
  14. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Jordan’s problem is one of classic villain teams: Whose in charge? Naturally it should be Viate as he was the emperor. But do we think Bane and Plagueis will play nice? I don’t. And what about Talzin and Gethzerion and Traya? Same problem really. This mini power struggle, no matter how small is the main hiccup that hurts Jordan’s overall team in comparison to mine.
    There is a clear leader in Yoda. He brings with his prep over 800 years of wisdom. He is an accomplished general and leader. He benefits by having Masters who have either followed him or know of him. Additionally, the only three not to know of him are not the type of jedi to work against him anyway. So cohesively, my team is solid. You add to that the talent of Bastila’s Battle Meditation and Corran and Leia’s familiarity with the Jedi Mind meld and I have one cohesive team.
    I have strategists on this team as well. Tholme’s a master planner and thrives in a situation like this. His own stealth skills will come in use in taking down some of the lower tier and aided by his former apprentice, he can easily accomplish this task. Corran, as an Ex-Cor Sec officer and a strategist himself can assist. His strength in mental projections might help affect some of the lower tier members on Jordan’s team. Additionally, his ability to absorb and redirect energy will come in handy against some of Jordan’s team.
    When it comes to war experts, Yoda, Satele, Ahsoka, Leia, Corran, Tholme, Kit and Aayla are used to war and are either generals or top strategists. And more important: They are used to fighting as the underdog against superior forces. So they'll take nothing for granted.

    Now that she’s prepared, Satele is a much more dangerous force for Viate. Add in a fully prepared Exile and he’s in trouble. Plaguies and Bane have nothing Yoda cannot handle. Remember Plagueis never really dueled another jedi. Even his own master he killed through trickery and he was murdered by Palpatine fairly easily. Yoda is already a match for Palpatine so Plagueis will put up a good fight, but he’ll lose. And Bane is good, but against Satele, Exile, Yoda or even Leia, he’s going to go down now that they are prepared for him.

    The nightsisters are an interesting batch, but we’ve seen just how ineffective Talzin’s magic on its own is. Not very. Again, even with this new comic, Talzin never gets a win. Not one. Even bolstered by Gethzerion, it won’t be enough. First, Yoda’s familiar with the nightsisters. Second, so are Leia (Courtship of Princess Leia) and Corran. Third, so are Aayla and Tholme. I don’t see these two having much of an impact for Jordan. These two will go down. And Traya isn’t much of an obstacle either, especially with the exile on my team (though I think Kit or Ahsoka could take her).
    At the end of the day, I have the better team. Individually Jordan has some stars. But they won’t be as effective together as my team is. Individually, they can’t overcome several members of my team. And not one on there can actually defeat Yoda one on one without help. Satele is also a stretch now that she is prepared. And the Exile remains a great wildcard that will keep everyone on their toes. You add in Leia’s wealth of experience and skills and Ahsoka’s own skill and the rest and my team can simply last longer and come out on top. United by Bastila’s battle mediation, this is a team that will be very hard to stop regardless of sith sorcerery.

    Lastly, I have some characters I’d consider tanks. You knock them down and they get back up. You blow them up, they get back up. You wound them in what should be a mortal way and yet they Still. Get. Back. Up. I’m speaking specifically about Leia, Corran and Ahsoka. Heck, Tholme should have died numerous times and yet the old goat would not go down. Considering this is a team of sith whose main weakness is overconfidence, I see them underestimating just what it is my team can do. Sorcerery would be useful with prep if it were actually effective. But time and time again, Talzin has proven weaker to the power of the force itself. Bane's armor comes with a cost and it can be overcome and beaten. What my team brings with prep is simply strategy and actual teamwork. Jordan's team will be lucky if it doesn't fall to internal struggles.
     
  15. Darth_Furio

    Darth_Furio Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Good arguments boys, great reads.
     
  16. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Such a difficult match to call. Saber ability is essentially equal. Comes down to weighing three points - first is the one that Minch stated, leadership. Satele and Yoda working together against Vitiate and Bane butting heads, while Plagueis schemes in the background. Is that likely to kneecap Jordan's team? I don't know.

    The second is the massive boost Jordan's team gets from team prep - Plagueis is the big one. Talzin and Gethzerion, working together or alone, are going to be enhanced significantly. Bastila will bring battle meditation into account, and there are no tacticians in this draft, that I know of, better than Leia (other than Luke or Obi-Wan), so Minch will get a sizeable boost as well, but nothing close to Jordan's group.

    The final point is familiarity, and this is where Minch really makes up a lot of ground. Yoda and Leia are familiar with the Nightsisters, and Yoda, for one, is familiar with the teachings and preachings of Bane, as shown in that dumb little Sith holocron gimmick book. The same cannot be said for Jordan's side- although he'll have prep to study, Yoda is a different kind of animal for Vitiate, and he'll be headed straight for him. Satele can stalemate Bane, I believe, and Exile can stall out anyone else.

    My vote is going to go to Jordan. I just cannot get past Plageuis with prep, and the hell he can rain on the team of Jedi with the time he will get. I think that, top to bottom, they are very close, and Minch certainly holds the cohesive advantage. Plagueis doesn't stand up in a ton of one-on-one matches with the top guys because we say his proficiency is not with a lightsaber, but with mastery of the Force - this is where it comes into play.
     
  17. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Yeah, great arguments both of ya. I'm going Jordan as well.

    I think minch's team does better as a team, and is better at becoming more than the sum of their parts. But, the talent gap it's there. And it's big enough to overcome being a dysfunctional team ... in this case
     
  18. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Those were great args.

    So I'm against Jordan next? That should be interesting.
     
  19. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi SWC Jedi Draft Champion star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Great battle Yodaminch!

    I think so. I look forward to fighting for a place in the finals :)
     
  20. Darth_Furio

    Darth_Furio Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Awesome, I get Point Given again. This is going to hurt.
     
  21. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    I'm just shocked I made it to the semis again :p
     
  22. Darth_Furio

    Darth_Furio Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2008
    Well it ain't beginners luck anymore dude. Good Job!
     
    Skywalker_T-65 likes this.
  23. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    i was probably going to vote the same way. the preparation element on jordan's team was just too strong, and nothing could really compensate for it on the other side. at least IMHO.
     
  24. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Yes indeed. The quite shocking semifinal matchup pits:

    (8) Skywalker vs. (5) Jordan

    And the less shocking matchup pits:

    (2) Darth Furio vs. (3) Point Given

    48 hours for numbers, or less, please. This round takes place in the Crystal Cave, Ilum.

    [​IMG]

    And remember, everyone in at this point will have another match. The two losing teams face off in the Jedi Temple, and the two winning teams fight for a championship within the Senate.
     
  25. Skywalker_T-65

    Skywalker_T-65 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Numbers in.

    Side-note: Looking back, I just realized Mika was number one. Holy ****
     
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