The 16th EUC Starfighter Draft: A Draft of Ice and Fire

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Point Given, Sep 5, 2011.

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  1. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    I get that people don't read the comics as much, but Edor Crespin shouldn't be picked over Bey just cause he appeared in Wraith Squadron. Jhoram fought for seven years as Rogue Leader during the second imperial civil war before being promoted(well kinda punished) into becoming the captain of Admiral Stazi's flagship after the Battle of Mon Calamari. He's Rogue freaking Leader. He lead the squad through a guerrilla-ish war for seven years, and we can safely assume he has at least some sort of experience prior to that.
  2. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    something i'm just a little curious about. how do we know the pilots of that rogue squadron are of the same caliber as the ones that we get books about and such? i'm genuinely curious about why that assumption is being made here. yes, it's supposed to be the best squad the NR has to offer, but who says that the best they have is as good as the best we've seen before? looking at history does that really tend to be the case, that something that was the best because it had the absolute best in it tend to stay that way as the ones who made said group famous? looking at sports is a pretty good case of that, some teams get famous and then when the people that made them famous leave they don't stay at said high level.

    i'm not really making an argument on this, i'm just genuinely curious about it.


    as to why ship is being rated so low dinkus, from the way i've read stuff about ship it is controlled. it is an automaton that follows orders, and based on the power levels we've seen from abeloth she very well could have been controlling ship during that battle with jaina. ship basically has no agency of it's own, which is why i still don't think the thing should be in the draft. but that's neither here nor there right now.
  3. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    I've always considered a unit like Rogue Squadron or the 181st to be more akin to an all-star team than a specific franchise.
  4. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    even then, all-star teams aren't the same caliber either. so what i said still stands on that one.

    EDIT

    also, the 181st doesn't really fit that NYJ. fel made the worst squadron in the empire, using the pilots that had been there, i.e. what were considered the worst, and made them into the best squad in the empire. that doesn't really sound like an all-star team to me, but more like a team that gets a new coach and suddenly starts playing better.
  5. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    whatever I don't care about the Imperials anyways.

    And all star teams are about equal. Even better example is all pro since those don't get screwed around by conferences. The 5 best NBA players in any given year can go to war with the 5 best NBA players from any prior point (despite fetishization of the past)...hell, the more recent years will have an advantage most of the time.


    edit: to move away from this analogy, to something more relevant, we see in the real world examples of special, elite military units. Seal Team 6, SAS, whatever.

    edit2: I'm unclear of these books function as canon, but the Legacy era campaign guide describes says that "Rogue Squadron remains the best of all squadrons, the elite of the elite" on page 125.
  6. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    No, it is sentient. It is forced to follow the orders of the strongest Dark Side user, but it still has a will and desire. The entire time it was doing Abeloth's bidding it did not want to, it despised working against the Sith.

    Your assumption that Abeloth was controlling each and every move that Ship made and that it is nothing more than an automaton is just that, an assumption, and there is not a single shred of evidence to support it. In fact, there is specific evidence that says the exact opposite.

    Read Allies and you will not be thinking that way about Ship any more because it was clearly described as having a sentient will, but that it can be held in thrall by a strong enough presence...even then it is not a mindless droid.

    When adding Ship was first brought up I was not really for it, I had the same thoughts about it as you. I figured if we add Ship we may as well start adding droid pilots and other such nonsense....but honestly once you get more into the character (and yes, Ship is a character just like anyone else) you start to see that Ship is so much more than, well, a ship.
  7. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i've read all of the books despised, and i still don't think it's that different from a droid. after a certain amount of time they pretty much become sentient, BUT they remain thralls to their programming. how's that different from being forced to obey someone who's strong enough in the darkside?

    correct me on one thing if i'm wrong. ship was created, which is pretty much the same thing as a droid. it has programming, obey the most powerful darkside user around, even if it's against what it wants to do. how is this different from a droid precisely?
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    star 10
  9. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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  10. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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  11. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    how in the world that bottom one went to teams is beyond me.

    hi darkeagle. how's it going?
  12. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    And how is that different from an Apprentice?
  13. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    Dec 12, 2006
    star 5
    Numbers in 24!





    Championship


    Horton and the Who's Sqadron vs The Night's Watch






    Third Place Match




    Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Squadron vs Bring Back Stackpole:








    Seventh Place Match



    Braavos Division




    I'll Think of Something Clever Later Squadron vs I Don't Give a Sith Squadron




    Ninth Place Match



    Prenn's Sticky Wicket vs Solo to Tano


    />
  14. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    Good match Trimaj. I was sure we would split those last two and go to teams, but oh well.
  15. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    thanks NYJ, you too. i didn't say a word about the crespin match because i figured bey was going to win that one and we'd end up in teams as well. shows what i know.

    good luck in the next round etc.

    well, two very important distinctions here. an apprentice is not created, and an apprentice has a choice to disobey said powerful force user whereas ship literally cannot. i.e. it is an automaton that can't surpass it's programming. if it were truly sentient it would have said choice and COULD actually put it into action. instead we've seen it not being able to repeatedly.
  16. DarkEagle Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2009
    star 4
    Game time; I'll get back to you on that, Trim, after this :p

    And good match horsey [face_peace]
  17. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    And how is that different from an Apprentice?[/quote]

    well, two very important distinctions here. an apprentice is not created, and an apprentice has a choice to disobey said powerful force user whereas ship literally cannot. i.e. it is an automaton that can't surpass it's programming. if it were truly sentient it would have said choice and COULD actually put it into action. instead we've seen it not being able to repeatedly. [/quote]

    I would disagree, Sith apprentices are created and molded and much of the time the apprentice really has no choice...unless it's choice is to disagree and die. Sidious created Vader, no doubt about it. Caedus created Tahiri, and we know that through the trial it was revealed that she honestly believed she had no choice in the murder of Pellaeon.

    Secondly, not once in the entire series has it been even suggested that Ship's every move was being micromanaged by Abeloth during any battle situation. What are you using as a reference to suggest that Ship was being told what to do and when to do it during the battle with Jaina? Ship seemed to be acting of it's own will there, even Jaina suggested so in the book (saying that while Ship would be reluctant to engage the Sith it would in fact be eager to engage Jaina).

    Ship being held in thrall by Abeloth is really no different than someone being mentally dominated by a Sith. Before Abeloth Ship was choosing it's own actions and path, even made a conscious choice to abandon it's original purpose of being a simple meditation sphere/attack vessel and decided to further the Sith cause by becoming an active trainer of Sith.

    It has made many choices which are clearly outside of standard "programming". It decided to not support the One Sith philosophy, when confronted by the struggling wills of Zekk and Alema it decided to abandon both and look for someone more worthy, it chose to work with Ben even though he was not a Sith at all.

    To say it is just a droid and nothing more is really a simplistic view of it.
  18. CPL_Macja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2008
    star 5
    Yeah prefect winless season. :p

    :-q

    I guess I will have to try harder next draft.
  19. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    Dec 12, 2006
    star 5
    First up is #1




    Championship



    Horton and the Who's Sqadron vs The Night's Watch


    Gunn Yage vs Asyr Sei'lar

    Asyr





    Third Place Match



    Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Squadron vs Bring Back Stackpole:



    Jhoram Bey vs Wedge Antilles

    Wedge







    Seventh Place Match



    Braavos Division




    I'll Think of Something Clever Later Squadron vs I Don't Give a Sith Squadron


    Ship vs Wes Janson

    Wes


    Ninth Place Match



    Prenn's Sticky Wicket vs Solo to Tano


    Rhys Dallows vs Lensi

    Lensi
    />
  20. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
  21. adaml83 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2004
    star 4
  22. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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  23. adaml83 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2004
    star 4
  24. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2006
    star 5
    Next up is #8




    Championship



    Horton and the Who's Sqadron (1) vs The Night's Watch (1)


    Darth Vader vs Kell Tainer

    Lord Vader




    Third Place Match



    Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Squadron (0) vs Bring Back Stackpole: (2)



    Anj Dahl vs Arhul Narra

    Anj







    Seventh Place Match



    Braavos Division




    I'll Think of Something Clever Later Squadron (0) vs I Don't Give a Sith Squadron (2)


    Mace Windu vs Olin Garn TRUMPED with Rhysati Ynr AND Kral Nevil (FORFEIT)

    Mace Winder


    Ninth Place Match



    Prenn's Sticky Wicket (1) vs Solo to Tano (1)


    Ace Azzameen vs Syal Antilles

    Syal/>
  25. adaml83 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2004
    star 4
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