Lit The 181st Discussion Group: Dark Forces! Bonus Level Unlocked: Jedi vs. Sith!

I thought that Soldier for the Empire did a decent job of showing what the titular occupation involved, even the main example from the text/glorious radio rendition was essentially a training mission. Looking back, I suspect the "SOP is to execute all prisoners" applies to situations where the Imperial force is outnumbered and the prisoners might attempt to effect an escape attempt. Pretty scorched-earth, but this is the Empire we are talking about.

When will we start discussion of Book 2? Let me know so that I can listen to it and post my wacky reactions

 

I wish that more had been book-written about Kyle - particularly his adventures beween Jedi Academy and his appointment to the Jedi Council.

About the only action that he's seen recently was his run-in with Jacen.

 

Yeah, the book did its best to fill the Imperial Army idea with some life. It's a bit cliché, of course, since we're talking about The Dark Forces. Sending the cadets on such a mission seems like a strange "weeding out" training exercise; you'd think there'd be something at stake for the Empire, and you'd send in professionals to get the job done first. Then there's the parade which can get you killed just because. And about that SOP - we could argue that the Empire is just killing prisoners if it's losing anyway, in a kind of sore loser fashion. Then again, I'm pretty sure that we're to believe that Kyle going the humanitarian way is a sure sign that he's not made to be part of The Dark Forces. Which is stretching it, seeing how he's a mercenary who's pretty good at killing people, especially in book 2, as we'll see.

But it does flesh out the whole Carida idea.

As for your question...

 

...it's time for Rebel Agent, isn't it?

Things to look (and listen) out for:

- Morgan's visit to Ruusan?

- The timeline of who knows what about what when?

- As a sidenote to that, what about that reference to Yoda's lightsaber? I guess this might be cleaned up in the audio drama, here it's kind of a mess. Rahn has had a lightsaber after giving his own away to Morgan. That belonged to Yoda. Pic says thanks for the saber (as if they'd only found out how to make club-sized lightsabers, not mini-sabers), but continues to use a dagger in his battles. I guess book 3 will give us the info that we might all look up on the wook anyway, but let's take a look at this from the POV of a first time reader.

- The appearance of the movie characters - Why bring Luke and Leia into the picture when they're not doing much anyway? Why bring Fett in if he's doing even less?

- The liberties that this is taking with the game plot, and, surprisingly, the excellent game dialogue?

- The whole idea of Kyle doing this as a side project but not taking leave first, dragging Jan with him?

- And maybe finally somethin about the pictures... Ezra Tucker's style is much more "realistic" than Dean William's art. It's also more accurate in the protrayals of little details. Thoughts and personal preference?


Oh, by the way, I'll leave this here as a little treat...

 

Alright, I'll see if I can listen to part 1 tonight. And here I was hoping to get some homework done tonight

 

I can see a vague possibility of this happening. We already got Jaden Korr, and then there was Scourge about another non-movie Jedi. If the right people have the right ideas... Also, Kyle has had a pretty constant flow of namechecks over the last 20 books, hasn't he? Then again, the news we got so far about DR's future (along with DH's future) seems to indicate that they go back for core topics like the rebellion era. They could of course do a book about another of Kyle's missions in that timeframe, but would have to leave any Jedi stuff out, not sure if they'd be up for that.

By the way, Kyle vaguely meshes with Stover's own character of Caine for me. Totally different, of course, but I think there's some shared DNA... smart guy who's an expert at "killing physical people" (I wonder if anyone will get that reference...) and who ends up doing right things. That's maybe why I don't buy into Dietz's interpretation of good boy Kyle who'd rather vomit than storm an asteroid. That's better in book 2, though, I think, since Kyle's more bent on revenge for his father. This is a good setup for the moral conflict that has to reach its climax after Kyle kills Maw. But I'm disappointed that Rebel Agent doesn't use its own setup of Jan "betraying" Kyle's trust and bringing Luke into this. The book should have ended with him up in arms and going out on his own, only seeing Jan again when she's under his lightsaber and at his mercy. But no, they have to force a happy end into this...

 

It makes a certain kind of sense to pull Luke into things -- he's at the stage where he's definitely a Jedi Knight, and for Kyle to be running around the New Republic and hobnobbing with Mon Mothma, once he learns he's a Jedi it makes a certain amount of sense to bring him into contact with Luke. It's certainly something fans would like to see. There's actually an interesting balancing act going on there, too -- by having Luke essentially bless Kyle's arrangement with Rahn's ghost as sufficient, it validates Kyle's status as a Jedi without needing to bring him into a position where he's directly subordinate to Luke, but also maintains Luke's status as the leading Jedi, dispensing his blessings and remaining clearly the senior figure. In terms of the wider EU situation and integrating Kyle into it, it has its value.

 

Lucky for you all, I got my Latin questions and Mesoamerican Archaeology summary done, so you get to endure enjoy my pathetic attempt to emulate "We Hav to take a Trip with Jacen Solo witty and incisive commentary on the Dark Forces: Rebel Agent part 1! Hooray!

"As the fight for galactic freedom wages on, the Past and the Present collide!" Oh holy crap I just figured out how to color text. There is ABSOLUTELY no way that I will abuse this.

-"The weakened Empire has shrunk to a fraction of its former size." Arguably, though I have to wonder how much of the warlordism narrative had been established by the time this was published.

-Okay, so this is firmly set in 5 ABY.

-Kyle hasn't avenged his father's death yet, so he feels unfulfilled.

-...The Alliance still views Kyle with suspicion? Honestly? If Crix Madine can be trusted as a general- hell, Jan Dodonna, Adar Tallon, Kasan Moor, Hobbie Klivian, Biggs Darklighter, Tycho Celchu (his bit of Imperial suspicion didn't happen until after his summer vacation to Hotel Lusankya), ad nauseam could be trusted by the Alliance, why not the former Stormtrooper who procured the Death Star plans for them? Who derailed the Dark Trooper Project? I'm hoping this gets elaborated upon, because it makes little sense when taken at face value. AFAIK Kyle never showed and recidivist tendencies while serving the Alliance.

-Okay, OPENING CRAWL is now over. They really love using this audio cue (I think it's from the Sailbarge sequence).

-And now we are listening to a recording of an Imperial attack?

-Consistency: 5 years later, the Empire still prefers to shoot prospective Prisoners of War rather than capturing them.

-Apparently there were supposed to be 400 Rebel sympathizers on Sulon, but the Empire only managed to kill about 30, tops.

-Morgan Katarn decided to take the rest of the Sulon Rebel cell to Ruusan.

-The Sulon survivors have never even heard of Ruusan before. In the words of my favorite Fallout NPC, "Who are you, that does not know your history?" I understand that the Empire has altered the historical narrative in order to paint the Jedi in a negative light- X-Wing directly references this when Wedge visits the Galactic Museum- but I'm curious that none of these people seem to have learned about the climax of the New Sith Wars and the Ruusan Reformations. Granted, Rebel Agent predates Episode I and Jedi Vs. Sith, but it's still interesting to note.

-Okay RC, less nitpicky and philosophical, more pathetic attempts at snark.

-One of the Sulon Rebels believes that they could have formed a nonviolent protest against the Empire on Sulon. This worked so well for the inhabitants of Ghorman, right? To reiterate: "Who are you, that does not know your history?"

-Morgan informs the Rebels that the three families that remained behind on Sulon were massacred by Imperials.

-"You're kidding!"

-So these people aren't formally members of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Morgan seems to be the recruiter.

-Ruusan is described as a, well, nondescript planet, with unimpressive indigenous species, pockets of ruins, "a lot of good-for-nothing real estate", a class-1 atmosphere (whatever that means), normal (I'm assuming Earth-like) gravity, and an utter lack of Imperials. Apparently Ruusan doesn't appear on current star charts. This is further elaborated upon in the Essential Atlas, which cites expanding nebulae severing the hyperroutes and lack of interest as the cause of Ruusan's obscurity.

-The captain of Morgan's ship has been using Ruusan as a storehouse for illegal goods.

-The Rebel/smuggler base is known as Fort Nowhere.

-One of the captain's shuttle captains spotted "something" while transporting the Rebels planetside. Morgan has a cow.

-I'm guessing this is the Valley of the Jedi?

-The Valley is in the middle of the badlands- "no water out there, no shade, no nothing". Hmm, influence of the thought bomb?

-Morgan zooms off to investigate the Valley.

-Morgan escapes the heat by sheltering under a rock.

-"If I didn't know better, I'd say this rock looks artificial". Star Wars really likes this trope, doesn't it? That's no moon, this is no tunnel, etc.

-40 meters high, covered in cracks and scratches. Katarn falls into some hole.

-Katarn has had feelings all his life, but has never known what to do with them. Taken out of context (The Force), this sounds incredibly depressing.

-Katarn sees several somethings moving.

-Katarn's comlink goes dead, much to the dismay of the captain. Also, the captain's speech sounds slurred enough that I have to wonder if he's drunk.

-Katarn has been surrounded by several dozen creatures, shaped like large globes. Yep, bouncers.

-I can't tell if Katarn is awed by the bouncers, or just as drunk as the captain.

-And Katarn coins the name "bouncers".

-Morgan tries talking to them. They respond!

-"NIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHHT"

-make that Jedi Knight

-"So it is written: A Knight shall come, a battle will be fought, and the prisoners go free". And there we have the prophecy.

-Something about the prophesied knight needing to get directions?

-The bouncers expose something buried under the sand... an obelisk!

-Yes Morgan, if that is just the top of the obelisk, then the rest probably is buried under the sand!

-The Obelisk apparently marks the site of the city of Almondo.

-"You mean it's buried under our feet?" Clearly Morgan Katarn has never visited Tenochtitlan/Mexico City.

-Morgan just kind of camps out on top of the potential archaeological sites, which I'm pretty sure violates several federal laws. I can't just pitch a tent in the middle of the Mesa Verde site.

-Aaaaaaaaand I just figured out that the drunken voice acting is actually due to the fact that I accidentally hit the "slow" button on my media player.

-Morgan leaves the Captain (Captain Jerec? Captain Jerk? I can't tell) in the dark about the whole lost city thing; he believes that the captain would plunder the site faster than you can say "Valley of the Kings".

-Morgan senses a tense feeling in the distance.

-Ominous music!

-Sounds are coming from the rock formation!

-Morgan realizes that his Jedi skills probably aren't up to snuff. It's nice to see some self-awareness in a protagonist.

-Morgan takes the stairs down beneath the rocks. It's rather cold downstairs.

-Ghoooooooooooooostly soouuuuuuunds!!!

-ooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

-Wait, why is the tunnel system filled with tombs? I was under the impression that the thought bomb just kind of vaporized its victims. Perhaps the catacombs predated the Battle of Ruusan?

-The ghosts are agonized. Being trapped for a thousand years will do that to you, I guess.

-Oh, Morgan is relating this story to someone. Qu Rahn?

-Morgan has returned to Sulon by now.

-Morgan trusts Qu Rahn with the information because he's a Jedi Knight.

-Qu Rahn refers to Yoda as his Jedi Master. Is this what you were referring to, Grey1?

-Yoda apparently told Qu Rahn all about the Valley of the Jedi. Boy, storytime at the Jedi Temple must have been depressing.

-According to Rahn, the Valley holds the power to destroy entire star systems.

-Morgan and Rahn plan a roadtrip to Ruusan.

-Qu Rahn doesn't let Morgan give him the coordinates of the planet. Smart move, given the opening cutscene of Jedi Knight. By the Nine, I can't wait to reach that portion of the story. The Dark Jedi were truly hilarious in those cutscenes.

-Qu Rahn predicts that Kyle's destiny does not lie with the Empire.

-The little strain of the Imperial March featured in "The Emperor's Arrival" plays, so I'm assuming we are about to cut to either Rahn getting executed or some other wacky Imperial entanglement.

-It's Yun and Sariss. God, Yun sounds arrogant. Isn't Sariss supposed to be Cronal's daughter or something?

-He refers to stormtroopers as "brainless faceplates". Paging Karen Traviss.

-Apparently, all of Jerec's darkside cronies are contractually required to pronounce "Dark Jedi" as "Daaaaaaaahrk Jedi".

-Oh hey, Maw is here too.

-Maw smells Rebels.

-The trio share a hearty cackle at the prospect of killing Rebels.

-Jerec is commanding the assault from orbit. Does he ever leave the Vengeance?

-Oh wait, this is Jerec.Mr. I-Can't-Even-Execute-A-Remotely-Half-Pantsed-False-Flag-Operation. Nevermind.

-And now we cut to the kid-friendly sound of people having sex.

-Never mind, they are running through the forest to escape the Empire.

-Qu Rahn is leading the group of fugitives.

-Everyone in the group is whining about having to run through the forest.

-Pansies.

-Apparently Jerec always sounds angry, according to Sariss. I'd be upset too, if I was that incompetent.

-The Trio of Terror homes in on the Pansy Platoon...



-The fugitives managed to shoot down one of the two shuttles with a rocket launcher.

-Rahn taught the team how to control their fear, somehow allowing them to ambush the Imperial pursuit.

-Fun fact- the background "wildlife" noises that you hear while the fugitives are conversing come straight from the Endor sequences in RotJ. I only remember this because it immediately evoked memories of the first Battlefront and defending that bunker. I really can't help but identify all of the audio cues in this radio drama.

-The Rebel rocketeer gets taken out by... a snake? It's choking her while making... rattlesnake noises. Rattlesnakes don't kill via constriction, and constrictors don't have rattles.

-I know I'm applying Earthling biology to space fantasy, but still. I was taught at a rather early age how to detect the local poisonous snakes (Rattlers rattle, Copperheads smell like cucumbers). Okay, back on topic.

-Rahn sacrificed the Rocketeer to escape. That's kind of cold.

-Sariss's voice gets more dramatic as she realizes that Rahn must haVE A SHIP NEARBY!!!

-Rahn's ship takes off!

-Rahn tries to ram Sariss's shuttle!

-VROOOOOOOOM!!!!

-HEROIC MUSIC!

-The Daaaaaaaaahrk Jedi ship crashes!

-Sariss inquires into the pilot's health. He replies that he has a bump on his head. Sariss remedies the situation with an impromptu decapitation. I don't believe that decapitation is an AMA-approved treatment for head contusions.

-Rahn's ship is pursued by TIEs. It's Another Trap!

-Tractor Beam!

-Boarding time!

-Didn't this happen in some sci-fi movie?

-Prometheus, that must be it.

-The Imperials gas the ship. This is a smart move, rather than just engaging in a messy room-to-room firefight, though far less dramatic.

-Rahn wakes to Gollum croaking in his ear, while someone kicks him. Ooof!

-Actually, this Dark Jedi sounds more like a twisted Yoda minus the twisted word order.

-It's the monkey-lizard Dark Jedi. Who rides around on Gorc.

-Time for a group interrogation! I think.

-Apparently Jerec looks like a walking skeleton.

-Jerec castigates Sariss, Yun and Maw for failing to capture Rahn and co. Which is kind of hypocritical, considering what we have seen of Jerec's competency.

-Jerec already knows who Rahn is, like any good villain.

-Rolana Grann gives Jerec the whole "Name, Rank, Serial Number" act.

-"Gorc? Pic? Kill him for me."

-Gorc: "Oh, good stab, Pic!"

-Jerec gives Rahn a choice: Give up the coordinates of the Valley and earn a merciful death, or refuse and die in agony. You're not even going to give your victim some false hope so that they will talk? That's rough, dude.

-Rahn naturally refuses.

-Jerec has his minons force Rahn to his knees.

-"I, Eddard of the House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, do sentence you to die."

-Wait, wrong series.

-"Why wait? Strike me down!" "In time, when I am done with you!" AHA! At last we get to Jedi Knight dialogue.

-Now I REALLY wish they had used the voice actors from the game. Jerec's actor had this hilarious lisp in JK.

-Jerec somehow rips the location of the Valley out of Rahn's mind. Finally, Jerec shows a shred of competency.

-Now Jerec taunts Rahn about how he killed Morgan Katarn.

-Decapitation time!

-Wait, I thought Rahn cut someone in half during the opening cutscene.

-and now we cut to 8t-88 (That's totally not a play off of "IG-88") in the Rimmer's Rest on Nar Shaddaa.

-Oh hey, Boba Fett.

-What the hell is with his voice? Sure, this is pre-Temuera Morrison, but still. It sounds so... thuggish.

-Boba has never worked for a machine before, apparently.

-8T-88 believes that machines are the future. Just like IG-88 believed that hijacking the Death Star II would work out.

-8T-88 wants Fett to extract information from Katarn.

-Fett refuses because A) he doesn't do torture and B) he has heard of Katarn. Meaning that Katarn thrashed his shebs during the original Dark Forces game.

-Fett thinks that Katarn has strong Imperial connections?

-Oh dear god it's the Cantina Band song. 20 septims says that Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes have taken up work on Nar Shaddaa.

-36 minutes into this radio drama, and Kyle finally shows up.

-Kyle drinks Norvanian Grog.

-Kyle watches that last message from Morgan. He's beating himself up over the vengeance angle.

-8T-88 taunts Kyle over the hologram.

-88 knows who killed Kyle's father!

-88 has an inflated opinion of himself.

-Kyle remembers that Jerec singled him out at graduation. Weirdly enough, that graduation was 8 years ago. I could have sworn it was, at most, 6 years prior.

-Kyle on Jerec: "If he wants me, all he has to do is keep looking over his shoulder, because that's where I'll be." Kyle Katarn doesn't make threats, he makes promises.

-"Don't move! You'd look pretty funny looking around with a smokin' stump on top of your shoulders!"

-88 feeds Kyle the it's-just-business line.

-This is basically that scene from the game, in case you couldn't tell.

-88 needs Kyle to break the coding on the Valley of the Jedi holodisc.

-"The Dark Side? I've already seen it. Do your worst!" NO NO NO, it's "I've been there", not "I've already seen it"! C'mon, that's the best line from the first half of the game! AND YOU BUTCHERED IT YOU MONSTER

-"The streets are filled with trash, and it's hard to tell one from another."

-Kyle just punches the crap out of thugs, then Force-pulls the blaster out of one's hand.

-"This city is one huge maze!" This statement can be taken at face value, or be seen as lampshading JK's level design.

-Jan is still working as Kyle's handler.

-nevermind, she just secretly followed him. Jan does this a lot.

-some of the buildings on Nar Shaddaa are 3 klicks high. Interesting. I wonder how that compares to Coruscant.

-The Empire seems to exercise some jurisdiction over Nar Shaddaa.

-Kyle apparently sneaked away from Alliance headquarters all on his lonesome.

-Kyle's tracker (he put a homing beacon on 88) sounds like a Geiger counter.

-88 doesn't notice the tracking device until his thug points it out. This is one of the disadvantages to lacking a peripheral nervous system.

-Bang! Bang!

-Kyle chases 88 to an Imperial Shuttle.

-Kyle shoots off 88's arm. BADASS

-Jan prevents a TIE from strafing Kyle.

-Kyle goes after the disc.

-He's apparently using a maintenance ladder to climb 30 stories down the side of a building. In a freezing wind. And apparently it was meant for a species half of his size.

-Kyle tries to punch his way through a transparisteel window. Ouch.

-he breaks in via the Bryar pistol. The owner of the building complains; Kyle tells him to send the bill to the Empire.

-Kyle is now on the lowest level of Nar Shaddaa. Sounds like a sewer.

-A bounty hunter is hiding in a puddle of goop. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

-The bounty hunter comes at Kyle with a vibro-ax, screaming something about honor. Clearly he doesn't realize that Kyle fights dirty.

-Imperial aviation standards have clearly declined; Jan claims that she has seen better flying from a garbage scow, and better shooting from a blind Rodian. HAHA GREEDO HAN SHOT FIRST LOL

-Kyle climbed 30 flights of stairs, while the bounty hunters just took a turbolift. What they don't realize is that KYLE KATARN climbs 30 flights of stairs every morning just to wake up.

-I might have made up that last part.

-Qu Rahn starts talking to Kyle while Kyle is trying to crawl away from the bounty hunters. I'm reminded vaguely of that scene in KotOR II where Kreia teaches the Exile breath control. Similar context too, as the mentor is speaking telepathically to the student in order to teach him/her a critical skill in the middle of a life-threatening situation.

-OMG KYLE USED THE FORCE TO GRAB A BLASTER AND USED FORCE SPEED!

-Kyle gets all cocky and suddenly the Force connection cuts out. "I'M SO POWERFUL I CAN KICK ALL OF THE BU-" Boom! "AGGGH Duck and Cover!"

-Or something to that effect, you get the gist.

-Jan finally finds Kyle with a simple life-force scan.

-Kyle got hit by a concussion grenade! oh noes!

-And here comes Jan to the rescue. That was an unexpected conclusion.

-Kyle took another shoulder wound. I think we are definitely seeing an impetus for the Shoulderpad of Doom here.

-Jan ships Kyle back to an Alliance medical frigate. The Frigate is overloaded with casualties from an Imperial attack on the planet Sacul (sp?).

-Kyle is only "borderline" medical priority due to his questionable past. Seriously? This whole suspicion shtick is getting old.

-Apparently this isn't the first time Kyle has just jetted off on a personal whim.

-Jan ruffles through Kyle's bag. Personal space? Hello?

-Kyle has a holopic of Jan in his pack. HOW CUTE

-"I know I'll probably never say this to your face, but- I love you Kyle. Get better!" d'awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

-Qu Rahn has watched Kyle from afar for a long time. Sounds familiar. Gandalf, right?

-Rahn clues Kyle in on the Valley of the Jedi. Kyle makes sure that this radio drama runs for a round hour by repeating everything that Rahn says.

-Rahn directs Kyle to Morgan's house to learn the location of the Valley, and tells him to go learn the Jedi ways.

-the music being played in the background is from Yoda's death in RotJ.

And with that, we conclude part 1 of Rebel Agent. I hope you enjoyed, and I will try to get part 2 up tomorrow. There is a bit of setup for the moral conflict- Kyle makes it pretty clear that he's going to avenge his father's murder by killing Jerec. Once again, this radio drama has to be listened to if you want to understand how cheesy it is.

 

You know, the thing is, when I read this, I had the voice of Robot Chicken Boba in my ear. Which is strangely fitting since Fett isn't doing anything of value here, either.

Huh, Dietz messed up quite a bit of good dialogue, but he got that right in the book. His worst offense might actually be changing "What would you do without me? - I'd be a content old man" into "I wouldn't last long", which doesn't really sound like Kyle, does it?

Well... I understand the concept, of course. But... first of all, I'm possibly a bit of a purist in regards to Jedi Knight, and the game worked pretty well without Luke et al. I think it's more like SW if you just have Kyle go through this quickly, with no room for long breaks. It adds to the fact that Dietz doesn't manage to convey the speed and the fun of the game, which was really the first FPS with a big story in it.

And why I vaguely understand the need for Luke's "been there first" authority, I don't like the idea of having such a huge thing happen and then everyone just says "it's his destiny, he'll decide the course of the universe". A band of Dark Jedi, as much as they turn out to be a posse of clowns (even Jerec admits that he's not that strong without the valley), should be something that you throw Luke at, not some guy who may or may not learn his lightsaber blaster deflection skills in time. Having Luke in Kyle's story makes me think of Luke dueling Desann while Kyle gets aboard a ship or something like that. Teamwork, not this Hogwarts way of teaching in which you just have to find out for yourself if you'll live or die.

It's a bit different from Corran's story, for example - here, Luke only checked in between adventures, and Corran didn't go on the Jedi path yet (even though he took the saber and the bag of tricks). By the way, when I, Jedi came out, did anyone else think - based on the short summary - that this was going to be pretty close to Jedi Knight (With Jedi Outcast actually being a bit closer to I, Jedi)?

 

Well, that's why it's so nice to have the Force -- "Luke felt in the Force that Kyle had to do this on his own," and voila, you're golden. But I do think that, while it's beneficial to the EU to depict Luke meeting Kyle and approving of his Jedi status, the scene would have fit better at the end of the book.

 

Grey1, he messed up that line in the Radio Drama too So, has the Rebel Agent radio drama cleared up any of the continuity issues from the novella so far? Accentuated them?

 

You mean continuity with the game? Because I can't really say I'm getting a lot on overall EU continuity. OK, the Tusken explanation was interesting. As is the fact that I never wondered before why you have to fight Tusken Raiders armed with Wookiee bowcasters on Sullust's moon. But hey, great sound effects on the game. Did I mention how much I loved the game? I wonder if I liked the book more if I didn't know anything about the game.

I'll probably away for a short time, just wanted to let you all know. Personal stuff came up. I try to be back sooner than in the last months, I promise. And one more thing - I just ordered a copy of the audio play version.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the audio version, whenever you get ahold of it.

Also, I've been meaning to listen to part 2 of Rebel Agent- I just haven't had the chance yet. It should be up sometime tomorrow afternoon.

 

Double post technically, but whatevs. Wait, what's that? You thought I forgot about this thread? You thought that you might be spared my further sad attempts at humor? WRONG. A combination of Latin exams, New Vegas, KotOR II, papers about forced conversion in the New World, and a brief bout with insomnia may have delayed my return, BUT like Alduin, I was not defeated! Merely delayed! So here. We. GO!

STAR WARS: DARK FORCES SAGA: REBEL AGENT: PART 2

-Is there any way to highlight that text with colors like the mods do their names? Anyway...

-Opening crawl, yada yada yada, recap, you get the drill

-A NEW THREAT!!!!! Oh wait it's just Jerec. I wouldn't worry too much. He's too busy cackling evilly and botching false-flag operations to bother with anything as trifling as competency.

-Kyle is muttering in his sleep about the Valley.

-Leia is visiting...?

-Wait, they are referring to her as Leia Organa Solo. She and Han aren't supposed to be married yet, right? Unless we are counting The Glove of Darth Vader. And really, how can we not count that epic masterpiece? CONTINUITY WIN

-And Luke is here too.

-Jan falls over herself to hero-worship Luke. Then again, he is kind of a big deal. And a humble one, too.

-So this is that superfluous cameo Grey1 was talking about.

-Luke and Leia tell Jan how she's a big hero herself, due to that little Death Star plans shindig.

-Jan spills the beans about the Valley to Mothma, Luke, and Leia.

-We now find out that Yoda told Luke about the Valley.

-Luke has heard about the Valley more recently from "others". Hmm, other Purge survivors?

-Morgan Katarn was murdered 8 years ago, so... 2 BBY? The timescale for the Death Star plans was kind of clunky, even then.

-Jan reminds us that Morgan's head ended up on a spike in King's Landing Baron's Hed. Morgan getting beheaded perks Luke's attention.

-Mothma confirms that she knew Rahn. She also decides that if Morgan thought it was important, then we should trust him. This reminds me of that scene in Truce at Bakura where Luke tells Ackbar that the ghost of Obi-wan directed him to Bakura, and Ackbar immediately takes the second-hand word of the ghost of a man who died 4 years ago.

-Jan plays some holodisc. "This message is intended for my son, Kyle Katarn." STOP SNOOPING JAN. KYLE IS ALLOWED TO HAVE OTHER PEOPLE IN HIS LIFE BESIDES YOU.

-The map to the Valley is supposed to be imbedded in the stone ceiling of Morgan's home. Is it constantly updated by the BoSS? Because otherwise I would not trust that starmap. Hyperroutes do not remain static- even constantly traveled ones like the Hydian Way are constantly updated and revised as gravity shifts and stars move.

-Morgan also left Rahn's lightsaber for Kyle.

-Aaaaaaaaand now we get our first mention of Kaan, and the origins of the New Sith Wars story.

-Kaan's a sore loser, by the way. A real scorched-earth fellow.

-Luke advocates showing this message to Katarn immediately. So, this means that someone was advocating not showing Katarn? I'm guessing Mothma, because that's how she rolls in this series.

-No wait it's Jan, because she took the holodisc from Kyle while he was comatose. Awkward. "So, uh, yeah Kyle, while you were out I took that cool message from your dead dad out of your backpack and showed it to all the kids on the playground."

-Leia is stunned by the fact that Kyle was once an Imperial officer. Okay, realtalk: I'm getting really sick of this "We don't trust Kyle because he's a former Imp" angle. Half of the upper-ranking officers in the Rebellion are former Imperial officers. Hell, Crix Madine created the Storm Commandos. Does this mean that the Rogues have to sit at a table by themselves at lunchtime because half of them used to be TIE pilots? No? Didn't think so. This is legitimately ridiculous, and a cheap ploy to generate artificial conflict within the story.

-Mon Mothma asserts that the Danuta raid only proved that Kyle is willing to betray the Empire. What? Then why in the hell did she trust Madine with any aspect of the Endor operation?

-So Kyle never "officially" joined the Alliance. That's your excuse, Mothma? Admit it: Kyle just has better hair than you, and You. Are. Jealous.

-Kyle graduated from the Imperial Academy. So what. You know who else graduated from Carida? HAN SOLO. YOU KNOW THIS MOTHMA. YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE BUNK.

-Kyle also disobeys orders often and goes off on personal missions. See, if they had made this the source of Mothma's distrust- rather than just a footnote to her "ONCE AN IMPERIAL, ALWAYS AN IMPERIAL" argument (Hell, Mothma herself was an Imperial Senator. Why do we trust her to run the Alliance? SHE COULD DEFECT ANYTIME OMG)- then it would have been cool, and actually made a lot of sense.

-Leia rightly points out that Han is a Carida graduate. Finally, a voice of reason. I see why they made you chief of state.

-Luke trusts that Rahn was right about Kyle. He's more worried about Kyle's internal conflict. It's nice to see that Mothma is the only crazy one here. You know what, this cameo is okay simply because it gives us a counterpoint to paranoid Mothma.

-Luke basically argues that the Force works in mysterious ways. Mothma gives up and decides to live and let live. Jan isn't allowed to tell anyone about this meeting, and they decide to let Kyle do his thing.

-And of course, Mon Mothma reiterates to Jan that if Kyle shows any signs of turning on the Alliance, Jan is required to Order 66 that traitor.

-After Jan leaves, Leia gossips about how Jan obviously loves Kyle.

-Luke is afraid that Kyle and Jan's destiny will take them to the very edge of darkness. Cue ominous music.

-Oh hey, ominous music played. Yeah, I'm pretty good.

-Boc is whining about counting grav-sleds for Jerec. Wow, Boc must have really ticked off Jerec to end up with that duty. "YOU STOPPED ME FROM TELLING RAHN EXACTLY HOW TO DISASSEMBLE THE VENGEANCE WITH A SPORK! YOU MUST BE PUNISHED! GO COUNT GRAV-SLEDS!"

-Yun acknowledges that Jerec really doesn't give a crap about his underlings.

-Jedi don't believe in curses! Good to know.

-Also, Boc comes across as a lot less mentally handicapped than he did in the Jedi Knight cutscenes.

-Boc feels someone watching him. Kyle, perhaps?

-Yep, it's Kyle and Jan.

-Kyle mentions the irrigation system under the farm. Didn't I climb through this during the game?

-Kyle muses about what the Imperials are looking for, and Jan bites her tongue to prevent spilling the beans.

-Kyle notices that Boc noticed him, while Jan whines about the dirt and the bugs. Aren't you supposed to be a Spec Ops operative, Jan?

-So, the Emperor's Dark Jedi aren't unknown to Alliance Intelligence.

-Kyle sends Jan back to the Moldy Crow.

-Kyle: "I'm going home."

-Jan goes and snitches to Mon Mothma. I'm really starting to get annoyed with Mothma's characterization. It was cool in Soldier for the Empire, but now it's just grating.

-Kyle sneaks around the farm, and eavesdrops on some Imperials.

-"Dead as the Emperor out here."

-Kyle thinks that the house has been ransacked multiple times, which is kind of a depressing homecoming. Though I suppose it beats coming home to a burning homestead and your aunt and uncle's corpses.

-Kyle finds WeeGee. Yay!

-Kyle puts WG in standby mode so that he can read the disc.

-And now Kyle watches the disc.

-Kyle gets A LIGHTSABER.

-**** Just got real.

-Kyle swears to use his lightsaber for Good/ fighting 20 AIs on Jedi Outcast with invincibility turned on.

-WeeGee is back online! He makes the exact same sounds as an R2 unit. Even though he looks nothing like an R2. Ah well, can't blame them for using stock sounds. Mostly.

-Kyle switches Weegee over to Basic.

-Apparently Weegee tried to stop the Imperials when they attacked the farm.

-Switching Weegee to Basic somehow draws a bunch of power away from his servos. That sounds like hilariously bad programming/wiring, though I admit that I am the farthest thing from an engineer of any sort.

-Weeg recommends escaping through the irrigation tunnels.

-Kyle sees a stormtrooper, accompanied by a Gamorrean merc.

-Kyle just shoots them dead, then whines about "blasted Imperial armor" stopping his shots. Kyle, you know that lightsaber your dad gave you? It's not one of the ForceFX toys, it actually works.

-Kyle is stymied by a sealed maintenance hatch, and has to have Weegee open it. Hello, lightsaber? Kyle?

-Kyle nearly gets shot because he's too busy raging about Jerec being evil to notice a battle droid sneaking up on him.

-Weegee takes it down, which is pretty awesome.

-The grate out of the tunnels is blocked by an Imperial transport. Fortunately, Kyle knows the security code: 0000.



-Kyle hijacks the transport and gets chased down the road by Imperials. Wait, where are the Tusken gangsters?

-Kyle sets the speeder on auto then jumps out into the Moldy Crow (which is hovering overhead), while the speeder collides with a roadblock. This is similar to when I play Just Cause 2 and send a tank careening into an enemy motorcycle.

-What's that hanging from Kyle's belt? Oh it's nothing, just something he found when he reactivated Weegee. Jan recognizes it immediately as a lightsaber. I have no idea why Kyle is trying to obfuscate here.

-Kyle and Jan hide the Crow to avoid TIEs, and now we transition to 8t-88 musing about his new arm.

-88 threatens to feed some servant to his pet monster because she grabbed the wrong stylus. And he accuses biologicals of being emotional. Pfft.

-Apparently Jerec built the Governor's House on Sulon.

-88 is upset that his room isn't the Lincoln Bedroom or something.

-Oh hey, 88 has a vornskr.

-And now 88 goes off on some droid rights tangent before braining the chamberlain.

-BRAINS SUCK CPUS RULE

-And Kyle has obviously disguised himself as a farmer, taking some sheep through a gate.

-Nevermind, the farmer was a distraction- Kyle somehow hid himself on an AT-ST's footpad.

-"Let's just say that this time the Imperials gave me a leg up." Now THERE'S the corny humor I remember from the game.

-The Empire has turned Baron's Hed into a slum.

-Some lady has been following Kyle. And she recognizes the lightsaber. Sariss?

-This lady has a remote hovering around her head for protection. Bounty Hunter? Spy?

-She demands that Kyle hand over the lightsaber, because it's valuable. Dr. Rene Belloq?

-Kyle cuts her down, but the remote has a blade sticking out of it!

-Kyle sucks at deflecting the blade, until Rahn reminds him to use the Force.

-Rahn's just treating this as a training session, rather than the life-and-death scenario that it is. Fortunately, Kyle triumphs.

-Jerec and 88 are negotiating for the map.

-After Jerec receives the map, he directs 88 to a freighter in the spaceport for his reward. Good thing it's not a trap.

-88's vornskr is upset. Hey, can't they sense Force-users? That means...

-"Maybe your little carnivore doesn't like intruders!" IT'S PAYBACK TIME

-Naturally, 88 craps his pants. I would too.

-88 calls for his bodyguards, only for Kyle to reveal that "they won't be joining us for the rest of their lives." BADASS.

-Yun walks in and interrupts this heartfelt reunion.

-Kyle decides that it's a good idea to bring a blaster to a lightsaber duel. I'm pretty sure that HK-47 had some choice words for people who try this.

-Yun just kind of giggles as he deflects the shots, which Kyle really should have seen coming. Although there was this one time where I beat Jedi Outcast by shooting Desann in the foot with a bowcaster.

-Kyle dodges Yun's lightsaber swing, then gives the standard Jedi "I'm full of surprises" line.

-Dueling time!

-Kyle is actually falling back on his swordsmanship classes from the Imperial Academy, which is pretty awesome. An officer and a gentleman.

-By the way, the sound effects are sound-for-sound from the Bespin duel- it's the exact same cadence of swings, clashes, and pauses.

-Kyle is actually overpowering Yun pretty quickly here.

-"Go on, Rebel! Kill me just as I would kill you!"

-But Kyle spares Yun. He doesn't kill in cold blood, you see.

-Yun is shocked, but Kyle refuses to sink to his level. Rahn congratulates Kyle.

-While Kyle is lost in reverie with Rahn, stormies start taking potshots at him. He tends to do this a lot.

-Kyle radios for an extraction, and makes for the roof of the Governor's Tower.

-En route to the spaceport in pursuit of 88, Jan starts asking Kyle just what the hell he has been up to. She's really selling this "I totally don't know what's going on" line.

-Kyle promises to tell Jan what's going on "Soon". Yeah, suuuuuuuure he will. I've totally never heard that line in a relationship before.

-Docking Control informs us that one of the fueling stations is acting up. There's no way this will be relevant to the plot in like 15 minutes or so.

-88 enters the Sulon Star to find his reward. The Vornskr senses someone.

-Gorc and Pic! I knew it was a trap.

-Jan drops off Kyle at the fueling station, and explains to Weegee what a reckless man Kyle is.

-Kyle feels really bad about keeping secrets from Jan, and swears that this is the end of secrets between them. Right. I've heard that line before.

-Once again, Kyle falls back on his Imperial training to locate the emergency access hatch on the Sulon Star.

-The ship seems empty. Kyle uses the Force to "scan" the ship, and senses Pic and Gorc.

-Once again, Kyle draws his Bryar pistol, rather than the lightsaber.

-Hmm, Pic is using the Force to block the light from the glow panels.

-Kyle thinks 88 is playing dead on him. It's not an act!

-Uh oh, it's Gorc!

-Time for a boss fight!

-Gorc feeds 88's head to the vornskr. Wouldn't that choke the poor creature?

-Kyle just shoots Gorc down. Apparently Gorc skipped "Deflection 101" when he was training as a Dark Jedi. Although, if Jerec was his master, we really can't blame him for the deficiency.

-Pic tackles Kyle and starts scratching Kyle's face.

-"I'm going to scratch out your eeeeeeeyyeeeeee!"

-Kyle just Force-pushes Pic away. Now, time for the vornskr.

-"Alright, monster. I have a snack for you. Right... HERE!" SNAP-HISS! THRUMMMMMMMMMMMM

-Now Kyle cuts open the vornskr. At least we don't get some "I thought they smelled bad on the outside" line.

-Pic's still alive! SLASH! Nope, nevermind.

-Kyle has learned a valuable lesson- hate clouds the mind.

-Alright, time for an extraction!

-Lots of blaster shots are flying. The stormies have orders to kill Kyle and Jan, no matter the cost. Hmm, blaster shots+fuel station=...?

-The station launches 4 heat-seaking missiles at the Crow. Jan blows one of the fuel tanks to attract the tanks.

-BOOM

-BOOM

-BOOM

-The whole station starts going up in flames. Kyle jokes about how he has never entered the Crow without some sort of hostile pursuit.

-Kyle introduces Jan to 88's head, then accidentally mentions that he finds her good-looking and smart. D'awwwwwwwwwww.

-There's a TIE Fighter in pursuit, so they head off to a canyon to shake the pursuer/get him to ram into a wall.

-Kyle lowers the boarding ramp and just starts taking potshots at the TIE. Jan yells that his blaster won't even dent the thing which, if the rest of canon is any indication whatsoever, is a wildly inaccurate statement.

-Kyle uses the Force to guide his shot, and manages to shatter the TIE's front viewport.

-This kills the pilot.

-Kyle and Jan jet off to the Katarn farm, so that they can root around in 88's head and find the map.

-Kyle's so happy about finding the map that he hugs Jan, then gets really awkward about it. Jan, on the other hand, is all for some serious hugging.

-Kyle and Jan are about to FINALLY directly admit their feelings for each other, when Luke flies in with his X-Wing and interrupts them. Jerk.

-Jan finally drops the ruse. Naturally, Kyle is upset about Jan taking the disc. "I love you Kyle Katarn, but I love freedom more!"

-"And to think I trusted you!"

-Kyle admits that he has been a bit of an ass about this whole affair- you know, expecting Jan to just go along with his wacky, death-defying adventures without even a word of explanation.

-And now Luke quotes that "a Knight shall Rise A Knight Shall Come" prophecy, and suddenly Kyle forgets all about the argument.

-Luke officially confers Knighthood upon Kyle.

-"Jerec may have killed my father... But let's see how he does against a JEDI KNIGHT!"

FINIS

So, yeah. I'm really annoyed by this whole "Once an Imp, Always an Imp" attitude that Mon Mothma has. It's completely inconsistent with, you know, 30 years of Star Wars canon. Even back in the mid-90's we knew that Han, Madine, and several other prominent Rebels were former Imperials. It just reeks of artificial conflict. The Dark Jedi are amusing, though Boc isn't as comical as he was in the game. We finally get some progress on the Kyle-Jan romance as well. I really do wish that Dietz had lampshaded the game mechanics more- I'm not asking for 36 Sermons of Vivec, "being able to pause the game and reload saves is canon because CHIM", just acknowledging that Kyle does more than just sneak around in the games.

Now, as to the whole Luke angle- I see it as inevitable that they were going to shoehorn some of the Big 3 into this somehow, in case people somehow forget it's Star Wars (despite the lightsabers, Jedi, Force, blasters, walkers, specific alien species, Imperial Walkers, music, etc.). It doesn't overshadow the story too much, and I can get down with Luke giving Kyle his blessing.

 

Do you mean Highlighted Text? If so, hit the 'Reply' link to see the coding - sorry, it won't reproduce directly.

Unlike most of them, Kyle's a buisnessbeing - he wants to be paid for his work (it does help with the bills)! That's part of the explanation given in the bckstory to "Outcast".

Not to mention Tycho Celchu and a host of others!

If he's just attached to, rather than 'a part of', then what's the problem? Another peeve in the backstory was that NRI thought his reports understated and that Kyle was overly violent (Kyle describing the lead-in mission - to Tattooine - as very much routine; but the NRI team reporting only finding "one terrified survivor")!

Kyle's Bryar 'pistol' is (according to a Wiki or Wook entry that I saw some time ago) actually a modified Blaster Rifle - and when charged-up is not so much E-11 as E-Web! Deadly accurate too!. I have very fond memories of picking off the Stormies outside Secret Area 2 on "Artus Topside" from the shelter of the rocks just past the big lift!

 

Many thanks for putting this thread up, BTW; it's nice to see Kyle's backstory in other than Walkthrough (or Wook 'potted synopsis') form!

 

TIE fighters are indeed hand weapon prove unless you happen to hit the pilot window in the right spot. Something Kir Kanos also found out.

 

Well huh. I could have sworn there was a scene somewhere where someone just throws rocks at a TIE and takes it out. Speaking of which, some day I'm going to play through Rogue Squadron as a TIE Interceptor, and Rogue Leader as a TIE/ln.

In any case, glad you enjoyed!

 

Afaik that was a Witch on Dathomir force chucking rocks at it, which one should assume would have been very big and very fast. Something similar happens in the Thrawn novels when Jorus tries to destroy a ship using force thrown rocks (a Skipray afaik)

Great fun, though you will grow to hate missile turrets even more.

 

That ba-cheeping sound those missile arrays make still haunts my dreams.

Tim Battershell, I did not know that about the Bryar "pistol".

 

RC1991

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bryar_pistol

and

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bryar_rifle!

 

Just thought I would throw this in, as it will be pretty relevant to our discussion soon. Straight from the hilariously open Essential Reader's Companion preview on Amazon, I give you Kyle Katarn vs. Jerec in the Valley of the Jedi. Also, nice continuity- I'm pretty sure that Kyle is wielding Yun's lightsaber.

 

I don't have any major things to say about the Dark Forces novellas, but I have pleasant memories of reading them back to back during a cold winter's evening years ago. I don't remember a lot about how they held up to the games or even how the quality of writing was, but at least at the time I thought they were certainly nothing horrendous, even if they also weren't groundbreaking. Pleasant reads, overall, and just off of them I wouldn't have minded Dietz doing his Shaak Ti novel. I do want to read them again someday, but I'm worried I'll be disillusioned.

Actually, I do have a few minor things to say. I've always liked how Kaan became such a central Sith figure in the later EU, and how Jedi vs. Sith maintained the Ruusan battle largely faithfully. (Although I was disappointed that other than Hoth, none of the DF Jedi from the battle showed up in JvS or POD, although the later at least isn't surprising). From its role in the Sith backstory alone the Dark Forces novellas play a fairly major role in the EU.

Also, I've always thought that Nij Por Ral (the archaeologist from the start of Rebel Agent) should be retconned to be a Cerean. From nothing other than his name, but I think that's enough. I'm also surprised the ancient civilization he's exploring on Dorlo hasn't been retconned to be the Rakata.

I do have one more observation from Jedi Knight, but I'll hold off for now.

 

Probably the most interesting thing about the books, to me, is the expansion of the story, in terms of showing Morgan's discovery of Ruusan and death, and most importantly fleshing out the seven Dark Jedi. The material on Jerec playing mind games with Sariss and stuff was fun to have.

 

It really does flesh out the characters in a way that the Jedi Knight cutscenes don't have the time to convey, as they are (understandably) focused on Kyle Katarn/Jason Court's cheesy awesome acting. Jerec just comes across as an incompetent cookie-cutter villain- he reminds me of Malak, pre-John Jackson Miller- but that's kind of the role he was meant to serve in the story. Boc comes across as being a bit more generic- yet at the same time, he isn't this slobbering wreck that we see in the JK cutscenes. I found Soldier for the Empire to be the most elucidating part of the trilogy, as it's the installment that really provides the bulk of Kyle's backstory. We get a few snippets in the games themselves, which are enough to convey the emotional impact of Morgan's death and Kyle's dissatisfaction at not having had the chance to avenge him, but the novellas/radio dramas fleshed out where Kyle got his training, the events that led to him forsaking the Empire, and the beginning of his partnership with Jan. And I really, really like that they did radio dramas for this. I legitimately have not had this much fun with a book discussion in ages.