Lit The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: Champions of the Force!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Grey1, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    A spirit that suddenly turned to the Dark Side after saying, "I'll never be seduced by the dark side!", to be specific.
    Last edited by purplerain, Oct 6, 2013
  2. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    With the rigid interpretation of the SW mythos that KJA takes, the only real character arc that is possible is a redemptive one, with the only variety being the degree to which one falls, whether it be going into a frenzy against Darth Vader, blowing up a few stars, or becoming a Sith Lord. But Kyp's arc is very much just going through the motions. I think KJA tends to view the story as something that exists to bring the Sun Crusher and Death Star prototype into the story, and ultimately set up a setpiece in which they fight each other!

    A lot of his scenes tend to be re-enactments of the films, e.g. Kyp encountering his shadow in the Yavin temple. There's no actual depth, and contrary to what I probably claimed in the Dark Apprentice thread, he doesn't really "get" the scene in the film. If Luke didn't attack Vader in TESB, would he have taken his mask off and revealed he's Luke and said "thanks for not attacking me I'm actually you lolz"?
    Jeff_Ferguson likes this.
  3. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    But for all we know "Possessed by dark side spirit" could be a legal term in the Star Wars law book and handing him over to the jedi is the usual procedure in that kind of cases
    Dr. Steve Brule and purplerain like this.
  4. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    "The jury finds you guilty of first degree getting possessed by a Sith spirit."
  5. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2000
    star 4
    Oh c'mon, they always say that.
  6. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    But nothing happened afterwards to change his mind.
  7. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    He wanted to LIVE.

    Exar Kun was greedy for knowledge and that greed drove him to the dark side.
  8. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    He saves himself once without turning but then when he's endangered again he decides, "I want to turn!"
  9. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    You know what I actually did like about this book? When Han and Lando took the Falcon and confronted Kyp in the Deep Core. When the two ships were locked together and Han was pleading with Kyp to stand down. That was actually a well-done suspenseful scene that's always stayed with me. Too bad it was at the beginning of the book and not the end.

    The Han-Kyp friendship is something that later authors never did anything with (or even acknowledged?).
    timmoishere and Revanfan1 like this.
  10. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Acknowledged in several of Greg Keyes' books, I believe.
  11. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    It does come up once or twice in Star By Star, I believe.
  12. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    Dark Journey too, I believe.
  13. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    In other words, in the NJO, when the novels respected Bantam continuity rather than dumping on what preceded them.
  14. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    KJA > Denning
    Vialco and Revanfan1 like this.
  15. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    A million times, yes.

    As a sidenote, I am rereading this series starting last night, so hopefully I'll get to COTF in time to get some discussion in here before the month ends.
    purplerain likes this.
  16. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    Was this really the case? Just off the top of my head, every book in between Last Command and Specter of the Past (save I, Jedi, which was written after Specter anyway) basically just uses Mara as a smuggler rather than as a Force-user, even when her past as the Emperor's Hand was brought up. Outside of Mysteries of the Sith I can't even remember her using her lightsaber. I feel like Cilghal, Streen, and Tionne were more like the Bantam-era go-to Jedi characters.
  17. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Mara ran the Smuggler's Alliance. Zahn didn't like that and got rid of it in Hand of Thrawn and made her the whole Jedi Master/Luke's wife thing and started Luke's nepotism streak.
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Actually, she'd stopped running the Smugglers Alliance by the time of the Corellia trilogy- instead having an "amicable split" with Karrde and starting her own small company.

    Zahn had that be a training exercise of Karrde's - "all part of the process of grooming her to take over my organization some day".
  19. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    I believe you are correct, but she was definitely part of the main crew by that point, Jedi or not. She attended the Academy briefly, of course, but other than that she was almost exclusively the smuggler/pilot character. Her lightsaber didn't come out again until SOTP.
  20. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    In other words Zahn retconned the whole thing out of existence, with an excuse that doesn't make one lick of sense
  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Not "out of existence" - just "putting a different meaning behind it, before ending it". Zahn's far from the only SW author to do so.
  22. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    I don't recall this at all. I don't remember the Smugglers' Alliance being dissolved in HOT (or even playing a role at all) and in either case it's still around in NJO. And just because he had Mara and Luke get married, Mara's not made a Jedi Master (and unless I'm not remembering, I don't think she's even formally a Jedi at the end of VOTF, although granted it has been a while).
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The point at which she goes from "Force-user" to "Jedi" was immediately after her sacrifice of the Jade's Fire. At least, she becomes able to do things she couldn't before at that point (like "hear" the Qom Jha in her head).
  24. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Nov 21, 2000
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    Because the Force just works like that - sacrifice your starship, understand a strange language. It's probably why Ahsoka understands the Wookiee language. Anyway, did you notice how easily we get distracted from the book at hand this month...?

    Anyway, what I meant is that Mara is the go-to-Jedi in that she's the Force-using character that gets the most page time, even if not as a Jedi. But I have a hard time remembering any of the First Class Jedi doing anything beyond Darksaber, save for maybe standing around in Luke's vicinity. Mara, for example, did help save Luke from turning into a Force ghost in The New Rebellion.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Streen did take command of the Jedi Order during Luke's leave of absence in the BFC trilogy- but since nothing much happened with them, this may not count.