Lit The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: Lando Calrissian and the Flamewind of Oseon!

And it's another month in our beautiful little discussion group. This month, we continue with Lando's travels through the Centrality, as depicted by L. Neil Smith. The second adventure is called The Flamewind of Oseon.

I'll be perfectly honest - I'm a bit behind schedule. So until I come up with moderately good questions, you all might take the lead and just say whatever you feel like about the book. Wizard, eh?

 

Waywa Fybot (I think I'm spelling that right) was a great character. I know, he's kind of creepy, but I love it. And the climax, where Lando comes face to face with Rokur Gepta, is pretty great.

 

Best line so far (I'm about halfway through the book): "Listen here, you hyperthyroid whooping crane!"

Back in the Mindharp thread someone brought up L. Neil Smith's political views (libertarian), and they do kind of poke through the narrative here at times- particularly in one of the internal monologues from the cop person. That being said, I'm enjoying the hell out of this book so far. Why can't we have more Lando-centric books?

 

Ah Wayway Fybot the first ever Imperial customs officers introduced. I kind of like his background where is drafted by his own planetary government and send off to serve the Empire, like a lot of other people would be, in his case it is just strange that he is not a human, though properly the reason he ended in customs and not the navy.

No clue, apparently we all want Jeid books.

Shanga and his uglie squadron (which is what their ships basically are, some 12 years before the Corellia Trilogy would reintroduce uglies) also offers and interesting contrast and of course the whole mystery of what Vuffi did to them (which only comes up fully in book 3 and is very harsh indeed). I always wondered if they would later hook up with the Rebel Alliance as they would fit in perfectly, as skilled fighter pilots with a deep hatred of the Empire.

 

Still haven't finished, but I'm at least halfway through. A few thoughts:

- I really enjoy the Lando/Vuffi Raa dynamic. While the author most likely took the idea from Han/Chewie, it's a very distinct dynamic that has its own rhythm and feel, and it really adds to my enjoyment of the novel. You can also see how American culture has changed a bit since this novel was released- I can't recall seeing Lando smoke many cigars in recent novels.

-Canon/concepts notes- Interesting tidbits about the Falcon- its shields are supposed to absorb enemy energy weapon fire, and then feed that energy into the engines/weapons. I can't remember seeing that before or since in Star Wars (Star Fox, on the other hand...), and it's a neat concept. I can understand the drawbacks, to be sure- Lando outright highlights how too much incoming fire will overwhelm the reactor, causing the ship to implode. While I'm on the Falcon, another interesting tidbit is that the boarding ramp is the weakest point in the Falcon's hull, as well as the shielding. There's all sorts of tidbits like that sprinkled throughout this novel that really flesh out the early EU, and I wish would get used more nowadays. The starfighters tethered to a single hyperdrive engine is a nice concept, and anticipates Attack of the Clones by about 30 years. It's the kind of thing that I would expect out on the Rim, where local military organizations are, for the most part, far more ramshackle than the shiny Imperial Fleets in the Core.

 

They're so idiosyncratic, the Lando books. The style, the phrasing, the subject matter . . . they're totally unlike anything else in the EU, which is their brilliance for me. I think the last EU book that was genuinely this personal and downright strange was Planet of Twilight. Of course, that one didn't turn out so well, but I'll take interesting failures over bland, mass-produced success any day. One could make a case for Rogue Planet, I guess, as a spiritual successor of a kind of the Lando books in the way the personality shines through the book. But there's maybe nothing quite as straight-up weird as this trilogy in the entire EU.

 

You know, I think that would be a good prompt for this month's discussion. It's a writing style that definitely evokes the OT in a way that most of the rest of the EU can only grasp at, though Bantam (for all of my gushing NJO love) did a better job of attempting it than Del Rey. Which is probably an idea that could use its own thread- I've been kicking around an idea for a thread concerning visual imagery within the novels and how it can more readily evoke one trilogy or the other- but I digress. Anyway, here's a few prompts, thanks to R1.5.

-What particular facets of the Lando trilogy make it so idiosyncratic within the EU?

-Which elements do we wish to see more of/are glad have been neglected?

 

So, how about revisiting Flamewind of Oseon for one more week?

- Waywa Fybot has already received a lot of good comments above. To sum it up again, what does make him so special, seeing how he's actually doing less than one would expect? Also, bird characters seem to be quite rare in SW, almost as rare as big green bunnies. But would you agree that while Fybot is more like a new mask variation on the Cantina and Jabba's Palace, that a character like Vergere actively uses the idea of the otherness to add to the mystery? Is there any mystery to Fybot except for his scheming in dark alleys?

- And actually, everyone is doing less than expected, because the plot is a charade. How do you feel about that? Lando gets sent on a mission, but not only is the mission stopped dead in its tracks by Gepta (who seemed to be far behind any options for revenge in the beginning of the book - I was surprised how weak he seemed running after Lando but apparently not catching up) - as a special twist, the mission was a lie in the first place, simply designed to force Lando through the Flamewind.

- Now, the Flamewind - in the end, the journey through madness-inducing, colourful radiation turns out to be the main plot, maybe the main antagonist of the story. It's also like a road movie, and like an adventure story that doesn't do a lot of change in scenery. How did you like the spectral chapter that moved throught the colours of the rainbow?

- Seeing how the plot simply gets cut short once it reaches Gepta (with him revisiting the mental torture motif that the Flamewind started), how do you feel about Vuffi's subplot? Is this idea of having a lot of bad stuff happen in the book, with some of it finally being revealed as incidental trouble based on some other bigger story that just gets summed up on the last pages right before the book ends, satisfying? What does it do for Vuffi's character when it's revealed very late in the game, but apparently gets resolved quickly?

- Let's talk about some of the other secondary characters. Bohhuah Mutdah - how far out there is this variation on Jabba, especially regarding the non-PG orgy that's being alluded to? Is it irritating to find out that when we get Mutdah's POV, that it's actually meant to be Gepta who's apparently a bit too far in the fantasy for his own good?

- Bassi Vobah, the female police officer - there is a woman on Lando's ship, and she's not seriously considered as a romantic interest for one fraction of a second. Far from it. One would think that having her this negative would be a provocation for Lando's talents in smooth talk. Does Smith drop the ball of Lando's characterization a bit?

- Lob Doluff - as mentioned above, what do we make of the (legally) big guy having such a petty illegal weakness? Is it another step in making authorities look bad (let's not forget Vuffi's "my master made me do it" backstory here), or is it rather a way of making Doluff a bit more tragic/pathetic, and therefore a more rounded character?

- And finally, Lando's mustache! Are we to believe that Lando didn't have that one in the first book?

- OK, I lied about the "finally" part. The final question goes for the idiosyncrasy thoughts above. Very much like the Marvel comics, a few familiar elements of the movies get thrown into completely made up scenarios that have little to no connection to the movies. Expanding the universe by casting a very wide net, or simply not caring to extrapolate from the base material? How much does EU limit itself today by the fact that so many things have been set in stone by source material? Or does SW simply need a different strategy to sell today, one that tries its best to keep as many known elements checked as possible, be it characters, settings, motifs, plot elements, entire plot constructions? Or is it really that different to a book like Crosscurrent that spins its own take based on the timeline placements and the name of the protagonist, leading him to a planet where two very unexpected and not-really-to-be-repeated things happen to him without any relation to another?

 

YES. That's one of the primary reasons why I've read so few new SW books over the past three or so years --- everything feels so standardized. It's Jedi vs. Sith. It's swinging lightsabers and crackling Force lightning. It emphasizes all-too-familiar action sequences rather than characterization or original ideas. In the tripe that I did read, Abeloth, a character concept that seemed fresh and unique at the outset, devolved so atrociously into a one-dimensional "I will rule the galaxy and I have the Force!!!!!!!2" villain... ugh.

Even Allegiance had Mara as a lightsaber-swinging prequel Jedi clone rather than the stealthy assassin who subtly used the force to augment her killing skills to whom we were introduced in Heir. I haven't read Choices, but truthfully, it's not all that appealing to me.

It gets tiresome. YES, THE PREQUELS HAPPENED. WE GET IT. The Bantam Era was experimental, dammit, and the pre-Bantam Del Rey books were too, mostly by necessity as the universe was still yet to be really fleshed out. I haven't read the Lando books in twelve and a half years, so I can't really add anything to this discussion, but damn would I like to reread them.

The crap that was Farce of the Jedi, and the zero interest I have in anything to do with The Old Republic, make me very nostalgic for the Bantam (and earlier) days. I'd reread the innovative and experimental The Crystal Star ten times before I'd touch anything from FOTJ again. As for the few books from the most-recently-renewed contract that have actually done something new --- should I read Death Troopers? Anyone recommend that?

I'm currently reading Han Solo and the Lost Legacy for the first time. I'll tell ya, I'm the happiest little girl in all of the Tion Hegemony.

Anyway, enough de-railing. I just couldn't pass up agreeing so adamantly with that point. Back to talking about this guy:

 

Oh, you're welcome, Jeff! And you're also welcome to join us at Thon Boka this december...

Funny thing is, since you mentioned Abeloth, they still do make up strange stuff that really shows an entirely new facet of the universe. The problem is that their hook into the story has become too big and too well defined. Another example: Dark Nest. On the one hand, you have a new idea for an antagonist/a setting, but you only get to see it through the prism of "oh, we have to develop the SkySolos and the Republic/Alliance/whatever and the Jedi".

Back with the Han and Lando books, you just had the tiniest common denominator from the movies. Han and Chewie fly the Falcon. Next, Lando flies the Falcon. Somehow, these guys have adventures in the "scum and villainy" part of the galaxy, with Lando being a bit more out there. Actually, since Lando is always called "the gambler", I think Smith should have emphasized this part of how Lando comes out on top against the odds, giving him more power through "using his luck" and bluffing. You could find this in here with Vuffi on the Falcon being the backup plan - the ace up the sleeve - but that's not really that different from anyone having a backup plan.

Or were Han and Lando simply easier to get right back then? Scoundrel, soldier of fortune, sold? Does so much of the "high concept novels" today hinge on how the author deals with the once beloved characters and the organizational legacy about whose creation we used to care?

But I'm going to get really unpopular now - does this mean that we get better stories out of a somewhat confrontational canon approach? Not the "please them all, include everything" approach that started during Bantam and really became obsessive once DR didn't pull off cutting NJO's ties to previous canon, but rather living and breathing in it? But rather the idea of "Lucas doesn't allow touching the elements of the movies, so let's go to another sandbox"? Han and Lando could easily have fought the Empire in their books. By today's logic, the Corporate Sector and the Oseon would have been the Empire, and Gepta might have been revealed as a part-time Sith student.

And when talking liberties in storytelling - besides the fact that TCW is sometimes rewriting canon, what about the fact that it's also presenting stuff that's a bit out there, and that really didn't seem to be in the cards before? (And yeah, I must admit, once you've lost faith in the novel's airtight canon, it's much easier to marvel at a new interpretation of Dathomir or Mandalorian elementary school canteens.)

 

The CSA is the Empire, just a different branch of it and the Centrality forces that Lando is confronted with are also Imperial soldiers, especially in book 3 when Gepta does actually call in the Imperial navy.

He is - being a very interesting Darth Vader stand in after all.

 

Good to hear a Scourge recommendation. I read and enjoyed Knight Errant a year ago, and Plagueis and Mercy Kill are on my Kindle... which currently has a cracked screen...

Authors will never again have the freedom that Daley and Smith had, but it's still possible for them to pick a previously unexplored era, invent some new planets and some new factions, and write one hell of an original novel without worrying about stepping on any toes. Knight Errant is, I think, a perfect example of that. It also gets bonus points for being about Jedi and Sith and yet being completely different from the same-old-lightsaber-swinging snooze-fest I described above.

Although I imagine it would be difficult to get editorial approval for that kind of concept these days without the added zing of it tying into a comic series. I imagine that every story conference between an author and LFL/Del Rey involves the latter asking "Can you throw in some more lightsaber duels and one-dimensional badguys?"

 

Well, that might be, but the first novel - which should have done the initial setup - didn't mention any Imperial connections if I'm not mistaken, and the second only had Big Bird of all people have Imperial training. So without hindsight and our encyclopedial knowledge of today, Lando might be living in another galaxy and/or dimension. Compare this to things like TOR or even Knight Errant which make sure that you understand what's going on by keeping basic trooper/star destroyer/gunship shapes around.

Well - you know - what? Do they never stop retconning everything down so that it really can be a figment of Daiman's deluded mind (with Daiman not being that original in his creations)?

But again, "certain POV" applies. The books do not say Sith. Today, he'd definitely need a lightsaber. Make that a red lightsaber.

Actually, it might be editors handing out ideas that check all the boxes for a good sell, or they ask authors to come up with stuff and shoot down everything that doesn't check enough boxes. I guess this stretch of novels Hav mentioned owes a lot to an editorial response to fanbase bickering. Give us oneshots, give us small adventures, give us X-Wing... and while I'm not checking out all announcements like I used to, I can't remember any "fan service project" on the horizon right now, rather "Ep4 rebels", "Ep4 rebels at a high age", "the best way to continue the main timeline" = Jaina books (which are almost experimental), "Kenobi aka that rebel from Ep4". Playing more towards the average mainstream fan who might still check out SW literature as long as it isn't asking for so much insider knowledge.

And I think KE is actually a very good comparison to the Lando books since it's like three single adventures in the same spot of the galaxy, with a setting that hasn't been set before and therefore can be filled with any crazy idea whatsoever. Like outrageously different Sith (I wonder how many of those might have been dark wizards and warlord emperors back in 1983). I think it could easily have been pulled off as a loose trilogy of three shorter novels, almost to the point that I wonder if JJM initially planned a structure similar to the old adventure trilogies.

 

double post?

 

It does mention the Central worlds and the Emperor a few times, connecting Gepta to the Emperor in book 2 or 3. Of course as you said back in the days those things appeared less clear but are all kind of hinted at.

Gepta is to cool for a saber especially as he has no one to duel against.

Funny enough a lot of KE Sith pretty much go for the Dark Wizard/ Warlord Emperors vibe, as did the Emperor after all.

 

That's what I mean about the KE Sith; you wouldn't really have had to change the characters in an era when nobody used/knew the word Sith. If the Dark Forces discussion taught us one thing, it's the fact that "Dark Jedi" is what you called a Sith back before 1999. And I think the expression Dark Jedi really went out of style quickly, since Palps' IU perversion of the Jedi term always gets mixed up with the OOU revelation that a Jedi ceases to be a Jedi once he's dark.

Which brings me back to the idea of Lucas keeping stuff off limits. I remember the musician Peter Gabriel saying that for a creative person, nothing's worse than having no boundaries, and only when you have to work with limitations you really start being creative since you need to be working around those. Similarly, does it turn out to Smith's advantage that he doesn't get to use stormtroopers and star destroyers and Vader and so on? At first glance, it looks as if he's just making stuff up out of thin air, but it actually turns out great for the EU since he's really inventing his own corners of the universe. Instead of a Wookiee or a Twi'lek or, like it would be more recently, a Togruta or Kel'Dor, he uses Big Bird. The same with Vuffi Raa: He invents a droid unlike anything Lucas was able to put on the screen pre-Jurassic Park. Still, we believe him when he says that it's still the SW galaxy. But okay, in that regard, how often do we get something where we cannot believe it's Star Wars?

 

I think that it's rare for an author to give us something that isn't genuinely Star Wars. Heck, even the biggest complaints with LotF center around it being too similar to the prequels, rather than off into the wild blue.

As for the freedom allowed by the setting- and the creativity that engenders- I completely agree. The kind of originality and world-building that Smith pulled off in this trilogy nowadays only pops up in occasional sourcebooks/guides (Atlas and Warfare, with honorable mention going to The Unknown Regions), short stories, occasional comics, and rarely novels. I'd say that Knight Errant and... yeah, that's about it. Plagueis is awesome, but that's Luceno drawing on existing and familiar elements, rather than going off and doing his own thing, in a sense.

Jeff_Ferguson allow me to add my voice to the chorus of Scourge recommenders.

 

Well, let's bring up the villain in Planet of Twilight. I mean, that was totally new and off the beam and all that good stuff. He was a mutated cockroach, right? That could steal energy or whatever? That didn't feel like Star Wars to me. Or I could invoke the number one icon, Waru. I mean, God, that did not feel like Star Wars to me. But looked at objectively, Waru isn't really weirder than some of the stuff Smith did. I mean, there's some strange stuff in those Lando books.

I suppose it boils down to talent. The book surrounding Waru was really quite awful and just not to my taste, so Waru doesn't feel like Star Wars. Smith's writing is more to my taste and he has a strange wit that really engaged me. So Vuffi Raa does feel like Star Wars. How weird is too weird and how weird is just weird enough? I suppose it's all subjective, but isn't it always?

 

Aside from bad writing and character assassination (often literally) though Boba Fett as Mandalore still is way out their, as it makes no sense whatsoever.

Mine as well, though it is a book about Hutts so what can go wrong?

 

I think Crystal Star is simply "so bad" because it's not particularly well-written. I totally bought into this dimension shift weird god-like creature thing, because why not? Back then, SW was about the adventures of Luke et al, not about a struggle between a Jedi and a Sith or about the current Republic/Rebellion stand-in fighting against an Empire stand-in. So when Luke was on a crazy planet fighting against a monster we never saw before, I bought into it, because that's what EU is. The other thing, this reflecting of the SW mold through the eyes of the grown-up internet-based SW fanboy, that's just franchise work. You know, the one where they're doing a book about Old Ben and call it "Kenobi", and not "Heart of the Jedi". Or where they have a book about Hutts and drugs and a Jedi librarian (correct, isn't it?) and call it "Scourge", and not "The Rise of Dark Falls".

 

Which is what makes Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor so awesome (among many things), because it also has one of those pulp titles, just like the Indiana Jones films, or other “pulp”

 

Nothing to add there.

But, trying to wedge one of my ideas back in, what's your take on the missing romance in these books? I have one thought on that I haven't shared yet: The friendship between Vuffi and Lando is an emotional component in these books that takes away the space that could be filled with romance. They way those two became ever closer over the course of just those two books we read now seems as strong or stronger than any buddy friendship we see in SW, especially Luke/Han (which has some really great moments) and Obi-Wan/Anakin (which we know is there... even if not every author shows it). It even has more emotional moments than Han/Chewie, if you ask me; those two only had that "look after the princess" moment where they really connected like that.

Thoughts about that? Did Lando only become a ladies' man because he had to fill the void that his faithful droid companion left?

 

Nothing to add there.

But, trying to wedge one of my ideas back in, what's your take on the missing romance in these books? I have one thought on that I haven't shared yet: The friendship between Vuffi and Lando is an emotional component in these books that takes away the space that could be filled with romance. They way those two became ever closer over the course of just those two books we read now seems as strong or stronger than any buddy friendship we see in SW, especially Luke/Han (which has some really great moments) and Obi-Wan/Anakin (which we know is there... even if not every author shows it). It even has more emotional moments than Han/Chewie, if you ask me; those two only had that "look after the princess" moment where they really connected like that.

Thoughts about that? Did Lando only become a ladies' man because he had to fill the void that his faithful droid companion left?

 

I find the missing romance to be kind of a relief. I'd rather have no romance than a forced one, and the emotional component is definitely taken care of by the Vuffi/Lando friendship. I suspect that the Lady's Man aspect of Lando's character was always present- it just wasn't relevant to the story that Smith wanted to tell, and that's fine with me. The essential components of the Lady's Man persona- the buttery smoothness, the casual attitude, the indelible charm- all of these elements are in place with Lando while Vuffi is around, they just aren't relevant to the story that Smith wanted to tell, IMO.

 

Isn't this the book where Lando gives poisoned food to a planet because he doesn't like the fact they have import tariffs?

 

He tries to sell it to them but happens to be on a world where they are heavily allergic to heavier metals because the planet basically has none. So he dumps it into the trash compactor and apparently sells it to them as manure, which would indeed most likely cause any of the locals that eat those plants grown with it to get the allergic reaction.