Lit The 181st Imperial Discussion Moffrence: The Glove Of Darth Vader!

Hello and welcome everyone to another 181st Discussion. No, not just another one: Can you believe it? It's the fifth birthday of the 181st!

In those five years, we have discussed a lot of classic novels and anthologies (and recently even audio plays and comic books) that might not get as much attention anymore. But we didn't shy away from the huge, universally acclaimed or infamously controversial stuff - former 181st host Beccatoria ended her run with a look at the Thrawn trilogy, the books that started modern EU as we know it; and with that out of the way, I added Traitor and Hard Contact to the list, books that could have caused riots because most if not all people have strong opinions about those.

Now, what to do for the anniversary? As the regular participants know, we have something special on our cake crumb-filled plates. The start of modern EU, controversy, and riots: fitting decriptions for a true classic referenced and discussed so often that one might wonder if we can find just one single new angle in here.

So here we go: The Glove Of Darth Vader by Paul & Hollace Davids!

Discussion starters:

- The Glove of Darth Vader is a classic for one thing alone: Back when modern EU started, it championed the idea of including reference pictures in the book itself. Clearly Zahn and the Davids' were at odds about this, and we all know who won that particular fight. I'm told it was because of budgetary concerns - printing even plain black and white pictures does, after all, cost more than just plain text. But can we imagine what EU would look like - literally look like - if the Davids' had successfully implanted this practice into Star Wars literature? All the greif we had with Cal Omas?

- One idea that Del Rey obviously lifted from this beloved classic does remain to this very day though: The Dramatis Personae, not known in Zahn's earlier work, but predated here by the Glossary. Even the concept of including important vehicles and places remains in pilot's job descriptions and homeworlds. We probably wouldn't even know Cal Omas' homeworld or gender if it weren't for the Dramatis Personae. How do you think Zahn must feel, finishing another one of his bestseller novels and then getting a call from his agent, "Tim, we still need the Dramatis Personae", and he has to sit down again and check his book for what characters were actually in it?

- SPIN. Can you say missed opportunities? People use to complain about the understated role the Insiders play in the NJO, but hey, they are formed for a special purpose which is more or less fulfilled once they have installed their puppet chancellor (Cal Omas, I'm looking at you. Oh, I forgot, I'm not, because they abandoned the illustration concept!). SPIN - that's a totally different story. Lots of untold different stories, actually. What do you think is most awesome about SPIN? And should Joss Whedon develop a TV show based on SPIN agents not seen in the movies?

- Now, the big one. This one's got perfect movie length. It also has all the igredients that made the original Star Wars great. And it has a villain that has a connection to Darth Sidious. I'm pretty sure Lucas is using this as his treatment. What are the continuity implications seeing how the main characters are suddenly 35 years older than the Davids' imagined? I mean, this is perfect, there's an impropable black hole in it, Abrams will love it.

- Finally - this Ackbar guy. Isn't he awesome? I wish he'd return to the EU.


This should be a good start for our anniversary discussion. Everyone have fun! And don't forget: Next month, we'll take a scrutinizing look at plot, characters, and continuity implications of Jar Jar's Colouring Fun!

 

Thought you were doing IJedi ?

 

-Ironically, WEG would frequently include various pieces of reference art in their short stories for the Adventure Journal, including several Zahn works. I'd also suspect that more than just budgetary reasons meant that few Star Wars books had reference art- the GDV series was targeted at young adult and younger readers, while Zahn's novels were targeted at adults. Additionally, the earlier books in the EU also lacked reference art- Splinter of the Minds eye, and the Han Solo and Lando adventures.

-If Del Rey was inspired by GDV to add the Dramatis Personae, it was indirectly. Bantam used it throughout the X-Wing series. That said, certain books could have certainly benefited from a full up glossary- Black Fleet Crisis, pretty much any book written by Stover, Denning, Lucento, Traviss, Zahn, or Reaves/Perry. Flowwalking would make a lot more sense if there was a 3 sentance explanation in the back describing how it works. It gets rather hard to tell apart Traviss's Clones and their girlfriends after a while, and Zahn has a tendency to create entire new sectors, species, and governments at will.

-SPIN is a lie. Too much about SPIN, including its membership, role, and headquarters contradict everything else we know to make SPIN more than just a fluffy feel-good story told to younglings and the lesser intelligent sentients long after the fact. Even the name is a joke. Senate Planetary Intelligence Network? What senate? It was disbanded before Yavin, and the New Republic was run by a provisional council until after the capture of Coruscant.

-Movie potential? Sure, maybe. I'm not all that concerned about GDV's potential as a movie. I would love to see the supposed Han Solo spinoff movie simply be Han Solo at Stars End made into a movie. It has about the right length, focuses on Han and Chewie with a new group of companions, a new enemy besides the Empire, attractive catgirls, an explosive climax, and is even split into a typical movie structure.

-Ackbar? Overhyped. Leviathor is going to be the breakout aquatic character, count on it.

 

What? No discussion of the Sky House?



For shame... for shame...

 

Gods be praised. I'm probably going to reread this series so I can better discuss its various intricacies.

 

Well, gotta give this one credit. Far better than the NJO/DNT/LOTF/FOTJ series.

 

The Rules of Sky House, Rule Number Two: You DO NOT talk about Sky House!

 

You start a thread on GoDV and don't begin by bidding us Dark Greetings? FOR SHAME, GREY1. FOR SHAME. NO DIANOGA TEA FOR YOU.



Trioculus disapproves.

 

This job is getting worse all the time.

 

Then relax with some sweet, refreshing zoochberry juice!

 

No more words required... not even Hutts are made to look good in this series.

 

GAAH! A Hutt with HAIR? Since when do hermaphroditic slugs have HAIR?!

 

Since droids have gender. Since Ackbar decided that he was a long-winded gossip. Since Han Solo decides the greatest expression of freedom is building a SKY HOUSE. It is, and always has been.

 

Truly this is a novel series that captures what the essence of Star Wars is: Action, romance, redemption! And with three eyes, it has achieved perfection.

 

Who gets redemption? Trioculus certainly doesn't. Maybe Triclops? But wasn't he good from the start? Ah, the moral ambiguities of this series are hard to quantify

 

It's more about trying to get redemption but not ultimately getting it. In the famous words we all try to live to: "Is it so wrong to be a murderer? Or a liar? Or an inhuman monster? I may be all of those things, but I still have a heart"

 

A heart that the cruel witch Leia stomped on mercilessly. She returned his love with hatred. Tell me, who's the real monster here?

 

That's what makes GODV such a powerful piece of literature.

It's three-dimensional characterisation is a major step up from the shallow linearity found in most Star Wars stories.

 

Since the ROTJ novel.

 

In GODV, it's not as simple as good and evil. Rather, it's three eyes or two eyes.

 

I wanna know is why is Mount Yoda not used much more often? It's name is MOUNT YODA!

 

Zorba honestly looks like he's enjoying it.

 

The idea of an elementary school on Dagobah is too great not to use. The numerous predatory animals only add to the learning experience.

 

Dark Greetings, sadly I have not read the The Glove Of Darth Vader so I can not really comment on anything in it. But about the idea of including reference pictures I have to say that I would have liked to something like that used a bit more often, especially in books by authors who only give minimalistic descriptions of nonhumans and/or the environment.

 

I couldn't even read these books. Complete garbage.