Games The 18th EUC Starfighter Draft: Older than a Disney Princess

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by The Loyal Imperial, Mar 20, 2013.

Moderators: Bardan_Jusik, Sinrebirth
  1. DarkEagle Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2009
    star 4
    Kasan doesn't have much known experience here. Yeah she flew with Rogue Squadron and lead a TIE squadron, but we really don't know for how long or how well she actually performed in combat.

    Kenobi, on the other hand, has much more shown experience over the course of the Clone Wars. Of note, I'd like to point out his performances in AOTC and ROTS. He pilots a fragile starfighter through an asteroid belt pursued by a superior craft and manages to survive with only minimal damage. In ROTS, he flies through the crazy maelstrom that is the Battle of Coruscant, again only taking superficial damage.

    While I think Kasan is a solid pilot, I think that if she were in similar situations (AOTC, ROTS) she would not do as well as Kenobi, nor would she be called a "phenomenal pilot." I don't think Kasan brings enough to the table to best Kenobi here.
    Last edited by DarkEagle, Apr 25, 2013
  2. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    was rather busier than i wanted to be. end of semester stuff, and all that.

    Anyway, what do we know about Kasan Moor? Well, we know that not only did she serve and survive enough missions to make it into the ranks of TIE/IN pilots, but she also earned her rank of lieutenant and earned becoming the leader of one of the elite squadrons in the empire. And she did it in the notoriously masculine-centric Empire. Or, to quote Wes Janson, she was the leader of "They're the best of the best!" That's no small accomplishment, all things considered.

    So what does she do after she defects? She goes from leading one of the elite squadrons in the Empire, to flying in the elite squadron in the rebellion, and this was in Rogue Squadron's hey day, back when Luke was the lead. That means that she was considered one of the best of the best that the Rebellion had, while flying in an unfamiliar craft. Think about that for just a second, she jumped from being one of the best in an uber maneuverable TIE/IN to being one of the best in a slower less maneuverable X-Wing, that she'd never flown in before and in all probability had different control layouts. Which would mean that her ingrained responses would no longer be the right thing to do, but she still managed to flourish. Again, not precisely a small thing considering most pilots fly one type of craft their entire lives, moving to upgraded versions of it as they happen to come out.

    Then after she hadn't flown in combat in years, she rejoins the rogues in the first battle of mon calimari when the emperor was reborn and had to help deal with the world devastators. Not something most people would even try after about 7 years sitting a desk unless they're like wedge or tycho, or someone like that. So overall we have someone who has always, at every point in her career, been involved with elite fighter units, was a career pilot, and had to prove herself even more than most because of the simple fact that she was a woman. To have survived everything she has is no small feat, to put it mildly.
    Last edited by Trimaj, Apr 26, 2013
  3. s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 7
    Last edited by s65horsey, Apr 29, 2013
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Yeah. I think it's fairly straightforward. I have a lot of respect for pilots like Moor and Donos but I think Kenobi and MJS have shown enough piloting chops to prevail.

    I agree.
  5. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Lewis Conference

    266 Squadron (3) vs. Tosche Station Power Converters (5)

    Requiem for a Draft (4) vs. Trade-Bait (4)
    Luke Skywalker, Gavin Darklighter, Derek "Hobbie" Klivian, Horton Salm, Kasan Moor, Jhoram Bey, Kell Tainer, Tyria Sarkin vs. Soontir Fel, Saesee Tiin, Jagged Fel, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Syal Antilles, Rookie One, Myri Antilles, Edor Crespin

    Clark Conference

    The Not So Avenging Avengers (3) vs. PRENNTACULAR (5)

    Jedi Starfighter Corps (5) vs. Nobody move! I've dropped me brain (3)

    Teams. @GrandAdmiralJello
    Last edited by The Loyal Imperial, Apr 29, 2013
  6. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    well, i kind of have the best top five here. that should probably be enough on its own, but i also have some pretty decent cohesion, and a lot of experience. and pretty much everyone but my bottom two has lead a squadron at one point or another, four of them leading rogue squadron at one time or another.

    if it's needed i'll try to get more up later.
  7. Wang Chi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 1
    Yeah... I think more is needed. At least as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't seem straightforward at all to me.

    And for whatever it's worth, I would've agreed with the choices last round. Been pretty swamped the last few days.
    s65horsey likes this.
  8. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    I am still bitter that I couldn't get that trade through for Saesse Tiin and Kenobi in exchange for Stele, so I hope DE loses. :p
    Last edited by Mikaboshi, Apr 30, 2013
  9. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i'm going to try to get something up in here by tonight. sorry about the wait, just been busy.
  10. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Any chance this is going to move? Loss of momentum is a draft killer, and boring as hell.
  11. Wang Chi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 1
    Yeah, couldn't get to it today (and I'm too wiped now), but expect a decision from me pretty soon here. I like to give more time for team debates, but it seems pretty clear by now that we aren't getting any.
    Mikaboshi likes this.
  12. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i'll get something up tomorrow. ended up a lot busier than i expected. had to help my girlfriend move, among other things.
    Last edited by Trimaj, May 5, 2013
  13. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
  14. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    yea, just go ahead. every time i think i'm going to have enough time, i end up not.
  15. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2006
    star 5
  16. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Ok, I'm going to go with Requiem here. Normally I'd do some sort of team breakdown but since nobody cared enough to give one, I don't think I'll provide one either.
  17. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    it's not that i didn't care to jello, it's that i didn't have the time.


    and having found myself with a random thirty minutes free... i figured i'd do this.

    Luke Skywalker > Soontir Fel
    Gavin Darklighter > Saesee Tiin
    Derek "Hobbie" Klivian > Jagged Fel
    Horton Salm >/>= Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Kasan Moor > Syal Antilles
    Jhoram Bey >/>= Rookie One
    Kell Tainer > Myri Antilles
    Tyria Sarkin = Edor Crespin

    well, for one thing I think that you can argue that i take this on skill the entire way down the line says a little something on it's own. and having been thinking about this for a few days, while trying to do this a number of times (irksomely), i do think that these are the people i'd vote for. the two i was questionable on at all were slam and obi-wan and gavin over saesee, but when i really thought about it i just couldn't see going for the two jedi. with gavin you have a long career as a pilot, he flew with wedge and tycho and eventually took over as rogue leader for a long time from them. sure, saesee was the jedi's pilot more or less, but you have so much more demonstrated from gavin's end of things. i'd also argue that what gavin was flying against was somewhat more difficult than what saesee did.

    as for horton and obi-wan, again you have a career pilot (insanely long this time), and he's survived a crap ton of insanity. in possibly the least survivable craft out there. yes, as wang has liked to point out in the past when going against salm, he's famously said that y-wing squadrons survive on discipline. but he's talking about his trainees with that, not himself. as far as i've been able to find there is nothing anywhere that suggests he is not one hella skilled pilot, especially considering what he's piloted most of his career. but towards the end during the ciutric campaign he flew a b-wing. he flew from before the second death star through to that, which is a rather absurdly long time.

    other than those two specifically, i really don't see losing much of anything in the skill department. sure, luke'll take a while against soontir, but he's pretty much the best pilot here. you could also argue that luke utterly decimates everyone in the backfield while gavin keeps soontir busy for a bit.

    anyway, that's my take on the skill side of this. agree or disagree but it's hard to say i do not have a skill advantage in this matchup overall.

    experience: well, that i have a rather large number of career pilots pretty well gives this to me as well. that most of them were squadron leaders, and elite squadrons at that, means that the type of experience they got would be of the top tier quality as well. and the type is varied from the imperials through to the vong war for several of them. and some beyond even that dealing with the second galactic civil war.

    i think the range of experience i have going for me here, and the sheer length in most cases, probably gives me this one as well.

    cohesion: everyone on my squad has a direct link to someone else, other than bey. at the top, it's actually fairly well linked through hobbie. everyone in my top five has flown with him. luke flew with moor as well. gavin and hobbie flew together through most of the x-wing books. salm and the rogues worked together numerous times, which means he worked with hobbie at the very least, and if i'm remembering right with gavin as well. tyria and kell are married, and you can never convince me that they haven't flown together at some point for fun. tyria trained under luke, so that's a link there. really the only one that's not linked in some fashion is bey, and he's a rogue, so there's no way he's going to be a problem.

    my opponent's pilots are scattered all over the place, and while there shouldn't be actual problems, they don't have anywhere near the kind of links between my squad. i'd say i probably win here.

    force: well, i have luke and tyria, he has saesee and obi-wan. really, i don't see this playing the hugest role in this given how few people it really effects. given he has two masters, i'd give him this one, but luke is luke. take from it what you will, not got much to say here.

    leadership: well… i have that in spades. every one of my top six lead at least one elite squadron during their time. they all know what's expected and needed. shouldn't be too much trouble on this front.

    overall, i have a lot of trouble seeing how i could really lose this one. i have a huge experience lead, a pretty decent one in the cohesion department, i'd argue a pretty hefty one in skill as well. that's almost all of the major categories swinging in my favor.

    take it as you will.
    Last edited by Trimaj, May 7, 2013
  18. ma_petite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2006
    star 2
    I agree. I am on vacation so if you want to know why wait until the end of May and then ask me.

    (mobile sock of s65horsey)
  19. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Lewis Conference

    Trade-Bait ( @DarkEagle) [0-1] vs. Tosche Station Power Converters ( @RX_Sith) [1-0]

    Requiem for a Draft ( @Trimaj) [1-0] vs. 266 Squadron ( @Point Given) [0-1]

    Clark Conference

    The Not So Avenging Avengers ( @whiteeagle) [0-1] vs. Jedi Starfighter Corps ( @Mikaboshi) [1-0]

    PRENNTACULAR ( @PRENNTACULAR) [1-0] vs. Nobody move! I've dropped me brain ( @Rebecca_Daniels) [0-1]

    Numbers in 24.
  20. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    GG DE. that was probably the craziest set of matches i've dealt with before.

    digits in.

    @Point Given may your blade chip and shatter.
  21. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    @The Loyal Imperial

    question about numbers. you want us to just use the same conversation to send them to you, or make a new one?

    EDIT

    something i've been wondering about... for rather a while actually: is the craft that people are piloting coming into play in judgements at all? is it just assumed everything is in some generic craft and it's just off of their skill? or is it what they flew most of the time? were flying last? whatever the best craft that they flew in? i don't think anyone ever brought that up... like ever.
    Last edited by Trimaj, May 8, 2013
  22. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    I think that was discussed many drafts ago.
  23. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Doesn't matter to me. Though, if you have something else to add or ask, I'd recommend a new, separately titled conversation. I don't open them until I've got them all or the 24 hours are up, for simplicity.
  24. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i must have missed that particular discussion if so.

    alrighty, makes sense TLI. just figured knowing if you had a preference might be useful and such.
  25. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Lewis Conference

    Trade-Bait vs. Tosche Station Power Converters
    Jagged Fel vs. Aril Nunb

    Requiem for a Draft vs. 266 Squadron
    Kasan Moor vs. Jake Farrell

    Clark Conference

    The Not So Avenging Avengers vs. Jedi Starfighter Corps
    Lando Calrissian TRUMPED with Dash Rendar vs. Tesar Sebatyne TRUMPED with Lowbacca

    PRENNTACULAR vs. Nobody move! I've dropped me brain
    Mara Jade Skywalker vs. Wes Janson

    We begin with five.

    @GrandAdmiralJello
    @Mikaboshi
    @s65horsey
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