Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Horax, Apr 3, 2006.
I am a GM and I won't, but their is no point for me too...
I'm around! I just have nothing to say.
One correction to those team battles. Prenn has Saesee Tiin in place of Thon.
Well said, Sest.
I have posted my arguement previously.
My team has equal if not better individual power. But where they take the opposition is in the cohesive way they work together. All of the Jedi fought in the same era, alot of them together at some point.
However looking at the opposition, well there a big pick 'n' mix going on there, Jedi from different eras, some are even shady Jedi's.
That is all I have to say.
Let's get some more arguments...
That's probably all you're going to get, I think, unless WINDEX has a response to Inty's stuff.
Neither one of the GMs in the first match has made more than a few posts since the drafting was done, Maxle's never been one for arguing and his opponent is yet another phantom, and 90210 has said his piece and Hand has hardly said two words in this draft.
Here's my (other) argument
Hand deserves to lose for having Luke fall into his lap at fourth and then making such a crappy team around him.
I'm not in this but i would like to know how you make a team and how they win and stuff.
also what you do on this thread.
I'll be replying as soon as I get home from Mass.
cool, I'll delay judgement a bit then (still writing up).
I just realized you have Dooku and Sidious on the same team... Since this is a team competition, do you truly expect them to get along well with Sidious ordering Dooku's execution?
Your team may have a small edge at number one, which I feel is strongly debatable. Windu did defeat Sidious, you know and while I see Dooku beating Saba I just don't think it's enough of a disparity to combat the horrific team work you have going.
Sidious and Bane might work well together, but Desann and Jerec like to be the boss. Bulq is in no way better than Depa. Bulq got handed his tail by Windu, while Depa took it to him in Shatterpoint.
I think you are underrating Saba quite a bit there. She took on a Welk who was powered by millions of Killiks and drove him off. Drawing on the same kind of power Raynar Thul and Lomi were using fairly well against the best fighter in the Draft, Luke. Pretty impressive display if you ask me.
Luminara is still skilled enough to hold her own in this battle.
To be perfectly honest, you have a nice collection of fighters, but they make a lousy team. No one is going to follow anyone else and it will lead to your demise
Dude, did you even read my post?
I addressed the question of Dooku and Sidious working together. Taking them at their peak (which as far as I know is still draft policy), they're more than cohesive.
Sidious vs. Mace is not close. It was close at the time of RotS. But RotS is not the peak of Darth Sidious. Far from it. He is far and away better in Dark Empire.
I have a much more cohesive team than you do, and I have already pointed out the many, many connections on my squad.
I've made my argument, I just didn't want you to get away with two blatant errors. That dooku and sids are incohesive and that Mace is close to Sids.
I interpreted your post as at their fighting peaks, not their relationship peak
Yeah, you get the fighter at their physical and fighting peak. At the same time however, Dooku would know that Sidious betrayed him to his death. It's like putting Vader and Sidious on a team, awesome duo but Sidious would always have in the back of his mind that Vader killed him.
I always viewed this sort of thing as having the fighters at their peaks after their lives are over (if they are dead in-universe). If you get Dooku with all his abilities as a Dark Lord, then I think it goes with the territory that Sidious ordered him killed.
This has been discussed in previous drafts and has been the consensus since ROTS came out.
As for Mace vs Sidious, I see Sidious as more powerful and well-versed with the Force in Dark Empire. As with a blade, however Sidious and Mace were both moving so fast that Anakin Skywalker (the Chosen One, who had seen his fair share of combat and when I say fair share, I mean a shitload) could only see the pulsations of light and dark, or something along those lines. Either way, Sidious and Mace were dueling at the height of their abilities. Sidious also moved too fast for Leia to see in Dark Empire, but I'll take The Hero with No Fear over his wanna be Jedi daughter's POV anyday.
So yeah, I would conceed power to Sidious but I never saw any improvement in Sidious' blade ability from ROTS to DE. So in my view, it's a damn close battle there.
No, really. It's not close at all. DE Sidious is that much better than Mace Windu. He could not bring a saber to battle and still slice Windu.
Meh. I don't agree. He couldn't do it to a basic novice in Luke.
Hell, Sidious is so crazy in DE he probably would try to turn Windu. Sometimes I wonder why people who draft Sidious would want him as his DE self. He's an insane lunatic.
If you're going to assume that, please cite something from DE that indicates a Jedi Master of Mace Windu's scale would get killed by an opponent not using a lightsaber? I've read DE several times and never came to a conclusion even remotely approaching what you just said.
it was hyperbole
I don't honestly believe it. I don't think Any first round is that much better than any other first rounder.
I just think you're vastly underselling DE Sids, and vastly overselling Windu (understandable, given fandom).
Not really. I've just read both ROTS and DE and they give similar accounts of Sidious' dueling abilities. It leads me to believe that Windu would still have an edge with a blade, while Sidious would be stronger with the Force.
I also just believe that Sidious being a nutjob in DE counterbalance his improved power in a negative way.
I also think that the majority of first rounders would put up a good fight against one another.
Prenn's Silver Wookiees vs Will of the Force
Yoda, Katarn, Bastila, Tinn, Jaden Korr, Kenth Hamner vs Maul, Ventress, Sing, Fisto, Allie, Yaddle
Integration by Darth vs. Purple Posse
Sids, Dooks, Bane, Bulq, Jerec, Desann vs Mace, Saba, Kyp, Depa, Luminara, Tesar
Emperor's Pick vs. Boon Dogs
Kun, Ragnos, Nadd, Lumiya, Hord, Sadow vs Kenobi, Jeth, Vos, Shaak, Totts, and Cay
Vicious Vets vs. Teh Ub3r Jedis
Luke, Vodo, Mundi, Ganner, Dark Woman, Hett vs Anakin, Quiggs, Plo Koon, Hoth, Drallig, Rancisis
I like the Yoda vs Yaddle fight. I think that would be a lot more entertaining than their rankings suggest, but still a sure thing.
I think the Yoda/Bastila/Tinn/Kenth side of the Wookiees would clash slightly with the Kyle/Jaden side. But I can't see Maul, Ventress, or Sing giving each other the time of day, and the cohesion only gets worse from there. The Wookiees can work as a team. The top half of the Will of the Force....can't. And that's the fight, even discounting Yoda.
Everybody is wrong here. IMHO, in relative power Sidious should splatter Mace, but his utter overconfidence and contempt for his opponent easily evens it out. After ROTS, the overconfidence factor only goes up. IMHO Mace can take him at his powerful-but-utterly-insane "peak".
However, this is irrelevant in the decision because Mace can't keep his team alive for crap. He's never been able to. Geonosis is the prime example, the Posse fight....etc. Boz Pity, where he gets punked by Dooku and two unarmed bodyguard droids and loses Adi and Master Baytes despite a massively overpowering team. It'll take about two seconds for Sidious to slice through the bottom two.
And frankly, Dooku's got a very good record of outsmarting and outmaneuvering Mace, and certainly can hold him long enough for Sids and co to kill the rest once the odds get real ugly.
Winner: Integration by Darth
3)Oooh...tough one. One team is pretty much all old-time Sith Lords with little to their name. On the other hand, Totts and Cay are sort of in the same situation, and I don't have much respect for Shaak Ti after she got imprisoned by Skakoans and needed Bail Organa to rescue her. Also, as stated, I'm skeptical Quin can live up to his billing. And Arca Jeth got punked by a droid. Even so, it'd be an easy decision if not for Lumiya.
I think Kenobi could take Kun, and in cohesion his team could divide and conquer.
Winner: Boon Dogs
4) Anakin with old-style Jedi Masters really is not as cohesive as it could be, and that team NEEDS to support Anakin to even have a shot at Luke. Battle meditation is a factor, but it seems to me like the two teams aside from the top slot are approximately even in power, with maaaaybe an edge to Ub3r Jedis. I'll give the cohesion edge to Ub3r Jedis too, though I don't like it. The Plo/Qui team is more effective than Vodo/Mundi, for sure.
Even with the battle meditation and the support of his team, Luke is just a massive obstacle to overcome. I think Ub3r Jedis can baaaarely edge it, though, and only because the BM hopefully would be keeping Anakin on-target as a Chosen One engine of destruction, as opposed to unfocused and overconfident.
Winner: Ub3r Jedis. Grudgingly.
i was in a team battle that i didn't win?
oh, hey taiwo, you can just sim my numbers, dude.
it's not looking like i'm any sort of heavy-weight contender in this draft anyway.
be as creative as you deem appropriate.
Well...you don't have to win if you don't want to, Axle
aw don't worry, man.
i wouldn't have anyway.
was that proper grammar?
I do not have classes Thursday, so that will be the best time for me to start the playoffs.