The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions

Such a sad reality.

 

I lived very near his district, and I had never heard of him until recently as well.

 

My my Ender it certainly seems that Ron Paul brings out the worst in you.

I know that this must be a strage concept for you but there are quite a few people who do not share your internationalist view of the world. Even more shocking is that some of those people are not ignorant and bigoted like you seem to believe. You drone on about how people don't understand how the system works while ignoring the simple facts that some people don't think it works while some people agree that it works but don't like the results. Ron Paul doesn't care for the existing system and he wants to build a new one.

The choice of candidates in this election is frankly pitiful. Republican candidates compete on who can sound the most macho and display a breathtaking contempt for liberty while the Democrats compete on who can bash the Republicans the most. None of them stand for anything wothwhile. None of them bring great vision or ideology and none of them seek high office with the intention of doing something really worthwhile. Ron Paul is the exception. He has a very clear vision of what he wants to achieve and he knows what he believes in and doesn't compromise it just because it might not be fashionable.

As for his supporters being so committed. Why is this a surprise? and why is it so wrong? None of the other candiadtes are saying anything to attract such devotion. When you offer a radical vision and promise to do something totally different it goes without saying that you will attract the support of committed and passionate people. Minor changes in fiscal policy can win you support but abolishing income tax is a much more compelling message.

Ron Paul might not be perfect, I disagree with him on some issues and he has no chance of getting anywhere the nomination but he offers more vision that the rest of the candiadtes put together and if I was an American I would proudly vote for him. You can sneer at him and his supporters if you wish and feel enlightened and intelectually superior but frankly you demean yourself. I wonder what Ron Paul fans think of you?

Which is why liberty is so rare and so precious and thus should never be taken for granted. I would have thought that a classic liberal would understand that.

 

Everything you said about Ron Paul in that last post can be applied to Barack Obama. Pretty much everything.

 

I don't take it for granted, DK, but I see you chose to ignore the context. Perhaps the colours of what I said clashed with that soapbox?

I'd suggest emphasising and focussing more on the stuff about America still being more liberal than anyone else, DK, if you wish to truly get my point.

And DK, I didn't invent how the system works, I merely observe and participate in it.

E_S

 

Darth Karde
I would have thought that a classic liberal would understand that.

I don't think Ender ever claimed to be a classical lib. He certainly has free market tendencies, but I doubt anyone who subscribes so strongly to the modern LSE line of thought would consider themselves devoid of social democracy.

edit

Ender
And DK, I didn't invent how the system works, I merely observe and participate in it.

Zombie.

 

What?

 

In relation to what Shinjo was saying a few days ago while I was on vacation, Joe Biden has my full support as my candidate of choice. However not being an American, my opinion and lack of vote doesn't really matter.

 

Chuck Norris has endorsed Mike Huckabee.



I guess we don't need an election now.

 

I always knew that Chuck Norris didn't believe in evolution...

 

I'd support Huckabee as well. I like self-deprecating politicians. At least he's mostly honest. And yes, I'd support him despite his stance on evolution. I'm not a single issue voter and it's not like the moment he gets elected he's going to make creationism a universally accepted issue.

 

Gonk

Don't feel bad, I live in California a solid blue state...so my vote doesn't count much either.

Poll

Missouri (from research2000):

Giuliani 39
Clinton 47

Romney 38
Clinton 47

Thomspon 38
Clinton 46

McCain 41
Clinton 46

Giuliani 42
Obama 46

Romney 38
Obama 46

Thomspon 38
Obama 47

McCain 40
Obama 46

Giuliani 40
Edwards 47

Romney 38
Edwards 47

Thomspon 37
Edwards 47

McCain 41
Edwards 46

 

I didn't ignore the context I simply addressed the security v liberty issue. However since you are pressing the point I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would think that curtailing freedoms on the basis that other countries will still be less free than yours is anything like a worthwhile arguement.

Which was my esential point. Most people work within the system (and this obviouslt applies to more than just international relations). Yes they try and change certain things but by and large they go along with the fundamentals. Ron Paul is an exoting candidate who attracts passionate support because he rejects the present systems and wants to make radical changes to the way America is governed and acts in the world. Why you want to pout scorn on that ahead of the pathetic posturing of the rest of the Republican nominees I don't understand.

 

Well when John McCain starting courting the looney religious right I gave up any hope of an interesting race and am more content to watch the Democrats whittle away at themselves until a candidate - I won't say leader - is produced.

But DarthKarde, anarchists, communists and fascists also reject the system and frankly, they're dangerous, wrong, and in denial of reality. I don't discourage vision, but pragmatic vision - i.e. vision that's attainable, even incrementally, is better than haphazard ideals that could and woudl never work.

E_S

 

It's not about creationism vs. evolution per se. It's that it speaks volumes about a person's level of rationality in the teeth of conflict with one's religious views.

 

A new nationwide Zogby telephone poll reveals that a sizeable majority of Americans are looking to vote for a candidate who protects liberty, wants to shrink government and immediately withdraw troops from Iraq.

As part of a spread poll, respondents were provided with descriptions of four different candidates and asked to choose who they would vote for based on each one's attributes and political platform.

Candidate A is a 10-term US Congressman from a large Southern state who is an advocate for a smaller government and individual liberty. This candidate believes in strictly following the Constitution and has never voted to raise taxes. He has never voted in favor of the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act, and wants to bring troops home as soon as possible. As a former doctor, this candidate has delivered more than 4,000 babies. One of this candidate's goals is to return America to the gold standard, and he believes that the current monetary policy needs to be drastically overhauled because of the dollar's decline.

Candidate B is a former governor from a Democratic state in the Northeast. Before that, he was credited for essentially saving the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. He is a Mormon and family man who is considered a moderate-to-conservative member of the GOP. While Governor, he signed the first state laws in the nation requiring all citizens of this state to obtain health insurance. He is a strong supporter of keeping troops in Iraq although he has been critical of how the war has been handled.

Candidate C is a former two-term senator from a Southern state who was a long-time lobbyist before running for public office. He was chief Republican council for the Congressional committee that investigated Watergate in the early 1970s. He was an actor playing supporting roles in several major motion pictures before entering the Senate, and returned to a prominent role as a New York City prosecutor in a popular network television series after leaving office. He has mostly supported the war in Iraq, but has said he would have managed it differently.

Candidate D is a former two-term mayor of a major city in the Northeast, and is considered a moderate member of the party on social issues. As Mayor, he presided over a dramatic drop in crime in his city, and is best known for his leadership in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. He established a worldwide security consulting business after leaving public office at the end of 2001 He has been a supporter of President Bush since leaving office and supports the war in Iraq.


RESULTS

32.8 per cent chose the description matching Ron Paul, while just 18.6 percent chose the description matching Rudy Giuliani. Just 12.6 per cent went for Fred Thompson's description while 15.1 per cent went for Mitt Romney.


Hmmm, no names used, interesting results.

 

But considering how they are phrased only a moron wouldn't be able to figure who they are talking about.

 

If that is true, then what does that tell us about previous polls, that had way different numbers than this one.
OR
Have the numbers really changed that radically recently.

 

Wait, another useless straw poll? BUT IT GIVES US HOEP!

ES

 

It wasn't a straw poll.

 

I think even scientifically accurate polls at this point don't really tell us very much.

 

It seems as though that not only has Chuck Norris endorsed Huckabee, Rick Flair and Ted Nugent have also. Maybe another crappy B-List celebrity will give his endorsement to Huckabee, maybe a certain Frankenberry look alike actor from Law and Order. I can't wait until Fred drops out. What a load of crap that hype was.

 

The man would probably hate me, but I love Ted Nugent's music. IMO 'Stranglehold' is a classic, far moreso than 'Cat Scratch Fever'.

Anyway, yea Fred has been ALL hype thus far. He's dropped big time in New Hampshire, and doesn't seem to be catching elsewhere. The comeback thus far has been McCain. He seems to be moving up.

Obama is now ahead of Hillary in Iowa.

Esp

They give us a snapshot, but I agree, things can change very quickly.

 

Obama's only ahead by four points, which is either within the margin of error, or just outside of it.

That said, we're moving on up!

 

Chuck Norris approved