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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate The 2016 General Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Community' started by Point Given , Jul 28, 2016.

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  1. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Do you think people like that reflect anything but a micro-minority opinion and are therefore not reflective of the majority opinion of Trump supporters? I'm anything but a Trump supporter but comments like yours are completely misrepresentative of him or anyone that supports him.
     
  2. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Did anyone say that it was?
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    So who do you support and why?

    I think you are wrong, BTW. The dismissiveness from his supporters of Trump's comments about women, among other comments, definitely reflect a view that women are somehow inferior to men, whether they reflect a view against women's suffrage or not.

    ETA: And any "hey look over there!" comment definitely carries the insinuation that the behavior under discussion is OK, whether it is Trump bragging about sexual assault or people blaming Obama for everything from rush-hour traffic to getting a full-calorie latte instead of a skinny latte. There is no need to bring up Bush (or Bill Clinton) unless the person is trying to make the point that "Trump making misogynistic comments is OK because Bill Clinton was a sleaze" or "it's fine to blame Obama for everything because people blamed Bush for Katrina."

    No one in this thread has ever said that Bill Clinton's behavior is OK. No one ever said that blaming Bush 43 for Katrina, etc. was OK. And if you are arguing against some caricature of "the American left" or arguing against something you read on PajamasMedia or Fox News or Breitbart that "liberals said" instead of something that was actually posted here, you're doing this thread wrong.
     
    unicorn likes this.
  4. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    And I'm saying he doesn't.
     
  5. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Trying to choose between Hillary and Trump is like trying to decide if you like cat or dog crap better. Either way, all you have his a smelly pile of poo.
     
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  6. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    And you'd be wrong. Were you not paying attention during the 8 years of Bush's presidency or the first few years of Obama's? Obama himself has blamed Bush for a load of stuff. Sorry, whether you agree with the sentiment or not, you can't deny that Bush has been blamed for a lot of issues.
     
  7. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Frankly, I don't know for sure who to support. I don't feel that I can, in good conscience, vote for either Trump or Hillary. One is a criminal that lies, cheats, and steals elections and the other is a jerk that picks on innocent women and mistreats those they disagree with. I'll let you take a guess as to which is which.

    I find that most supporters of both candidates are beyond reasoning and they would blindly vote for their candidate no matter what criminal behavior is done.

    I may just have to settle for a write in. I'm looking into this McMullin guy but I honestly don't know much about him yet other than he's Mormon and was in the CIA at one point.
     
  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Vezner you can just put that all in one reply you know?


    J-Rod:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...llary-clinton-2016-presidential-election-live

    "
    The second alleged incident took place in 2005, when Crooks, then 22, was working as a secretary at real-estate investment organization Bayrock Group, which is located in Trump Tower in Manhattan.
    After encountering Trump in an elevator, Crooks told the New York Times, the two introduced themselves, but Trump did not let go of her hand after shaking it, allegedly kissing her on the face before he “kissed me directly on the mouth,” Crooks told the New York Times.
    “It was so inappropriate,” Crooks said. “I was so upset that he thought I was so insignificant that he could do that.”"

    Go on. Tell me how all guys do that.

    In a Christmas special on Entertainment Tonight aired in 1992, obtained by CBS News, Trump - then 46 years old - is shown admiring a group of elementary school students and asking one of them, a 10-year-old girl, if she’s going up an escalator.
    When the girl responds in the affirmative, Trump turns to the camera and says: “I am going to be dating her in 10 years. Can you believe it?”
    Trump has made similar comments in the past, telling a studio audience during an interview in 2006 that “if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”
    The comments echo similar remarks Trump made to radio host Howard Stern in which he said that he did a double-take when he first saw socialite Paris Hilton at age 12. “Now, somebody who a lot of people don’t give credit to but is in actuality very beautiful is Paris Hilton,” Trump said. “I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12, her parents are friends of mine, and the first time I saw her she walked into the room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?’ At 12, I wasn’t interested… but she was beautiful.”

    Is this just locker room banter? Have all men at some point spoken like this?
     
  9. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    I didn't feel like it. Did it make your eyes go cross?
     
  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don't know what that says about this election but I have far more support for someone who feels he or she cannot vote for either candidate than I have for Trump support.

    So...fair enough.
     
    Rew likes this.
  11. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    We are talking things out of control. Bush directly caused the creation of ISIS. What things out of his control has he blamed for? Are there enough that "Thanks Dubya!" Is a thing? Because it's not.
     
  12. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    It's debatable what is, and isn't, in either POTUS's control. Who's to blame for ISIS, for example, is very debatable but that's a discussion for another thread.
     
  13. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    That's a terrible reply. You're the Mother Teresa of the JC.
     
  14. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    ISIS as a particular organization made up of those particular individuals on the current roster is debatable. The rise of Islamist terror groups as a direct consequence of the American invasion of that country is beyond all dispute. It is more than appropriate to lay blame at the feet of the person who authorized and championed said invasion.
     
  15. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    That's really what it comes down to. No one has erected a catch-all meme for Bush's failings.
     
  16. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    No, Vezner, it's really quite simple.

    The removal of Saddam had the effect of removing a brutal secular buffer in Iraq and allowing sectarian tensions to dominate everyday life.

    The dissolution of the Ba'ath party and army structures left a power vacuum.

    If only someone had written a book, like say a former president and father to a later president; and his national security advisor, warning of the risks. You know a good title for that book? I'd call it "A World Transformed".

    But, I mean, if the book existed it would have to come out in say September 1999 to have any relevance.

    The stupidest people on earth are American conservatives. And these same people ignored expert advice to butt**** Iraq into the position of having no mechanism to counter the rise of Daesh. This is the legacy of these idiots and they're behind an even more stupid candidate for President.
     
  17. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006

    Triple posting without cause is against the rules of the board. You may not feel like putting things in one post, but you'll have to do so regardless.
     
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  18. Asplundhe

    Asplundhe Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 29, 2016


    i take back the thing i said about you being a **** sometimes...even though you are, but this is solid. vezner i'm glad to see you back. you're an easy target so i won't start insulting and refuting you yet.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  19. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011


    Que the response, "but Obama pulled the troops out", even though Bush set the Status of Forces agreement and the Iraqis refused to renegotiate.
     
  20. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I think voting 3rd party is always preferable to "I hate both these people so I won't vote". It's more "I hate both of these people so ...... uhm..... that 3rd one!"
     
  21. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Ender Sai I recall the subject of the dissolution of the Ba'ath Party coming up on Bill Maher's show and I remember one of the panelists (can't remember her name) being so offended at the implication that removing Saddam from power was a mistake that she hilariously tried to claim that Iraq somehow better off now than it ever was under him. That pissed me off to an extraordinary degree. This lack of realism some seem to have about that war is baffling to me.
     
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  22. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Please don't take my response out of context.

    I never said it wasn't a micro-minority. But I know they exist. Someone was asking the question: can anyone seriously believe in repealing the 19th amendment? I said yes, someone in America could seriously believe that. I never said that a significant chunk of Trump supporters believe that.

    But a majority of Trump supporters do believe in prejudiced ideas. There have been scientific polls showing how many Trump supporters believe in nonsense, prejudiced conservative conspiracies (like Obama is a Muslim or born in Kenya, among many other things) or prejudiced ideas (like the Muslim ban).

     
  23. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013


    Bush and Obama are leagues apart. Bush was a terribly inept president in almost every way.

    He started an unnecessary war which led to 5000 dead US soldiers, 20000 maimed soldiers, and hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis. His people told us it would be a simple victory and we'd be welcomed as liberators. Instead US forces were there for over a decade, and it cost the US 2 trillion + dollars. His actions destabilized the entire region, and we're still dealing with that.

    His administration permitted forms of torture that when performed in other countries led to war crimes charges. They had FBI agents "infiltrate" peaceful anti-war groups to monitor them for un-American activities. He had 1000 foreigners jailed in Guantanamo, and half of them were arrested by mercenaries with no evidence that their prisoners had any connection to Al-Qaeda.

    His administration so badly handled Hurricane Katrina that nearly 2000 Louisianans lost their lives. FEMA didn't even know about tens of thousands of people without food, water, or electricity in 1 of New Orleans' largest hurricane shelters.

    He allowed Enron and other energy companies to gouge California's energy prices by rigging the market, tripling their rates and leading to blackouts. BTW, Ken Lay, CEO of Enron, literally had a desk in the White House. When that scheme unraveled, one of the largest companies in history went bankrupt and thousands upon thousands of people lost their jobs.

    He created Medicare Part D (Medicare's drug program for the elderly) which basically allowed drug companies to set their own prices. It ballooned health care spending and the deficit while Obamacare has actually slowed the increase in medical costs.

    The lack of regulatory oversight of his agencies allowed local banks, ratings agencies, and big banks to greatly worsen the bubble of the housing market, by encouraging regular people to take liar loans, balloon loans, interest-only loans, etc.; by rubber stamping groups of loans like these as AAA; and by not regulating the derivatives markets and allowing big banks to become over-leveraged. This led to greatest financial collapse since the Great Depression.

    Oh yeah, and I almost forgot...

    He also failed to have a single cabinet level meeting about Al-Qaeda until 3 days before 9/11 even though he received multiple memos with titles like: Bin Laden determined to attack the United States in a spectacular fashion. During that same period, he had a dozen cabinet level meetings on Iraq.

    GWB was a terrible, terrible president, who was incurious, inexperienced, not knowledgeable, unintelligent, and arrogant. By the end of his presidency, he was literally crying himself to sleep over his mistakes, he slunk out of office with a 22% approval rating at the end of his 2nd term, and he now spends his time in seclusion painting portraits of dogs and feet.

    And yet, rather than learn from this history lesson from only 8 years in the past, you don't seem to recognize that Trump is orders of magnitude worse the Bush in every single respect. Please pull your head out of your ass.
     
  24. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    I've posted this before, but you want to know how the US screwed up Iraq post invasion?

    http://thedollop.libsyn.com/122-the-iraq-war

    but its good we're talking about this now. It means Drumpf has shut up for an hour.
     
  25. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    I often wonder what would have happened to Iraq after Saddam's natural death. Probably a brutal civil war only without ISIS. Still better than what happened.
     
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