Senate The 2016 U.S. Presidential Election has begun

Better work hard on getting me to show up this fall, dp.

 

I don't believe you can be converted, and I think it's a waste of time, energy, and money to try and do so. Just know that whomever is the next President of the United States will represent you without you ever lifting a finger to help them, whether you like it or not.

 

"Waste of money" so you are paid!

 

Yes, clearly in a campaign environment where policy decisions (i.e. strategy changes, etc.), ad buys, and campaign stops/speeches are driven by amount of cash on hand... clearly I'm the one being paid to personally convert you.

I'd do it for free, if I thought you at all cared for anything less than ideological purity.

 

Yes, this is clearly "ideological purity" and not "trying to make the world a better place." Not wanting a fake democrat whose hoodwinked half the left is "ideological purity."

Got it.

 

There is nothing fake about Clinton being a Democrat, something that cuts at least two ways.

 

And you wonder why I think you're a lost cause and not worth the effort...

Generically, what one thing would make you do it?

1) Single-payer adoption under her Presidential term instead of embrace/extend of ACA?
2) End of drone strikes?
3) $15 Federal Minimum Wage instead of $12 Federally and higher at local/state levels where it makes sense?
4) Free public college for all, instead of means-tested public college?

I don't think she'll change any of those (and Sanders wouldn't change #2), and I wouldn't have supported her as much without the rest.

 

I'm not sad that Sanders ran his campaign to influence the platform of the presumptive nominee. I believe that he more or less accomplished his mission, and that Sanders supporters have an obligation to support the politically re-engineered Hillary Clinton who was created by the Sanders campaign to re-engineer her. A failure to support Clinton in the general is the result of a fundamental misunderstanding of the Sanders campaign. Those who refused to support either candidate should be free to do what they want, but a vote for Sanders in the primary was a clear, overt, and intentional vote for the re-engineering of Hillary. Sanders supporters should now be required by law to vote for Clinton in the general. Their vote could be written in ahead of time so that they don't actually have to show up on election day.

 

... and yet, even I am not at the same Swift-ian levels of Jabbadabbaken...

 

Wait, Clinton is a "fake democrat"?

"A member of the Democratic Party since 2015, Sanders had been the longest-serving independent in U.S. congressional history, though his caucusing with the Democrats entitled him to committee assignments and at times gave Democrats a majority." HERE

 

Rest-assured, I'm going to be phone banking those Sanders kids to remind them of their duty in the fall.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/grassroots/make-calls/

 

Vivec, you and I could become phone bank buddies. You know you want to.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/documents/93/Phonebank_Flyer.pdf

 

I think he meant she is

A) Fake
B) a Democrat

Not a "fake Democrat." Though certainly a transparently fake Obaman.

 

You cannot change the fate of civilization, Vivec. Join me, and together we can rule the Hillary phonebank volunteers as crotchety old guy and the younger guy who is also crotchety.

 

these Riots are great theater to watch on CNN !!!!!!! hopefully the protesters storm the building !!!!!!!!!!!!!! If It weren't for the riots in the 60's may be the civil rights movement doesn't progress as much as it did. I am all for peace but may be violence sometimes is the answer to open people's Eyes to how messed up it is to have a Nazi this close to the white house. Riots could become the Norm If Trump Gets the Nomination, when Trump Gets the Nomination

 

If Clinton campaigned on banning the overuse of exclamation marks then I'd vote for her in the fall.

 

Nope. I'm saying that I don't think Hillary can ever win your support. It's an opinion, nothing more.

I don't call people names. Please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

 

"I don't believe what you are saying" is "you're lying."

 

First, that's not true.

Second, this explains Hillary Clinton from many Bernie Sanders fans, thank you!

 

This is a new level of reality warping coming from you guys.

"I would vote for Hillary Clinton if x"
"I don't believe you will"

That's outright accusing me of lying.

 

No, it's not. And that's a mentality that really hurts the conversation. What I've said -- when you have said this -- is there is nothing she would actually offer you would find sufficient. Other than banning excessive exclamation points, which I think we all think is worthwhile.

When you say "I would vote for Hillary if she offered concessions" and I say "I don't think there's any converting of you" I'm saying the same thing Vaderize is. I do not think Hillary Clinton would ever get to an acceptable point of "concessions" -- which she shouldn't have to really offer, after absolutely destroying her opponent in an electoral sense -- that would make you vote for her.

I think you're saying she could and you believe it but I think that is an ultimately false narrative. Not because you're lying, but because you're lying to yourself. Hillary Clinton couldn't get your vote unless she adopted Bernie Sanders' entire platform, at which point... she'd be Bernie Sanders.

Similarly, you can see seeds of this in Wocky's insane postings (when he's not being serious) because Wocky extols the virtues of Tulsi Gabbard -- someone who disagrees with Hillary Clinton's foreign policy platform because it's too left for her and not hawkish enough. Legitimately, at least with him, since he's a registered Democrat I have a higher hope of him coming around despite those insane postings. But I legitimately don't think you will ever be happy with Hillary Clinton, despite what you're saying, because she's not Bernie Sanders.

You haven't even answered what one thing from that list she could give you (though I'd guess it's single-payer) that would change your mind. And we know she's not going to do it publicly, though it remains to be seen what happens if the Dems retake Congress.

 

So a bunch of people who weren't even born in this country are trying to dictate - through threats, intimidation, violence and force - what Americans may and may not listen to in a peaceful, lawful assembly taking place on American soil.

And you're cool with this because.....?

 

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