Games The 24th Jedi Draft - I will finish What Horax Started (Winner: DarkEagle!)

I have to say I'm not intricately familiar with Mara Jade. I only know she was gifted and has an extensive resume peppering all over the place. With that being said, who has she battled that's note-worthy? Caedus kills her, but he's a boss. She fought Lumiya so I guess that's the highlight of her career, but she had Luke's help.
I think Savage keeps her busy but eventually she cuts his head off. Her killing blow opens her up to a hungry Maul who ends her swiftly.

For the Kun battle, I have to say that he is occupied for a little while with the four Jedi Masters, but eventually he overtakes them. Yarael and Yaddle are first to die by his double bladed lightsaber. Ki-Adi lands a wounding strike but it only backfires and gets him killed. Then all that is left is Plo Koon who, even a wounded Exar would snuff out with unbridled violence.

 

I don't really know what more I can say about Aryn and Ven than what I've already said in their previous matches. I can however Talk a little about who they're going against.

Kit Fisto is the weak point in this matchup, his fighting style just can't hold up in single combat. Form 1 is his style, and it has always been notable weak when facing another lightsaber user. If this were a larger match with more opponents for him, he would shine. But the two times we've seen him go against someone else, it has ended in defeat and/or death for him.

Aayla Secura is slightly better than him, but she still isn't known for her skills with a lightsaber. She would probably hold her own against whoever she is initially paired off with, but would lose quickly once Fisto dies.

While my team may not have as many showings as the PT team, it does have much more synergy through the master/padawan bond. My team has also been training to fight against other lightsaber combatants for most of their lives while the PT Jedi never really expected to go against lightsabers in real combat before the clone wars, and even then the chances of them seeing opposing lightsabers on the battlefield was relatively slim given the scale of the war.

Evil.

 

Annd there's another reason why my opinion of Caedus goes down. The way it is written, Mara Jade has the upper hand in the battle. It is written as though she is going to kill him and he kills her with fast acting poison before she can.Honestly it's written so clearly that she is winning when she should not be. I mostly lean towards Savage going down and Maul surviving. If MJS were prepared however, I might feel differently. Unprepared, I don't see her overcoming both.

 

Be my guest Skywalker, that would be great.

 

Oh and I don't know if arguing other people's matches is allowed - so forgive me if I'm overstepping here..

MEETRA WIPES THE FLOOR WITH SCOURGE. I mean it's a good exchange in the beginning but c'mon - it's the Exile we're talking about here!

 

I'll be taking that into account

 

I'll take a look tomorrow. Busy last few days.

 

Right, double post then. Warning now that I'm pretty much running on fumes, so this may not be entirely coherent.

And I still don't have any actual books with me, so a lot of this is going to be based off memory.

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Alrighty then, Vader against Sidious. This is one of those matchups that are once in a blue moon- like Anakin against Vader, come to think -and are ones that are very very difficult to call. For a myriad of reasons, be it power, skill, familiarity...everything conspires to make it a much closer match than even something like Vader against Luke or Palpatine against Yoda. Maybe not as close as Mace v Palpy though.

Anywho, moving on.

I'm going to look at this in terms of these categories: Power, Skill, Experience, Special Force Abilities, and Familiarity

To start....

Power: Here, is one of the hardest ones to actually gauge well. I trend towards this with Peak!Vader.

All the experience and memories of Suit!Vader, but with the body he had as of going to Mustafar in ROTS. One can argue which is better, but in my mind, it's no contest. The suit mostly just makes his physical blows stronger. Otherwise, it's one giant weakpoint. Sure the armor helps...but if anything gets shorted out?

By say, Force Lightning?

Vader has to devote way too much attention to keeping it working. So I say Peak!Vader is all his experience but in his ROTS body.

Unfortunately, it's hard to really say how powerful a Vader with all that experience and not weighed down by the suit/missing all his limbs really is. We know that his theoretical peak is probably somewhere in the range of what Luke can do. But theoretical peak and actual peak are different things. In this case, we can say he's got a lot of raw power...but we can't say it's more than Palpatine.

Who, still thanks in large part to Dark Empire, is a first rounder in power for good reason.

I'd say, in this case, 'ole Palpy probably has the edge. It may turn out in the fight that an unencumbered and very experienced Vader is more powerful. But that's a very, very large question mark. I'd err on the side of caution and say that Sidious wins in raw power. At least most of the time.

Skill/Experience: Putting these two together in this case, because they both go to the same fighter and both fit together. Palpatine is a very masterful manipulator, and no slouch in tactical mindset either. The man is one of the single smartest fighters in the Draft, on either side of the Force. Very very few people can match or rival him in this regard, and those few that do may end up losing out because he's just that crafty anyway. There's a reason people tend to say that Palpy with Prep is downright impossible to beat for anyone but Luke.

And that's down to Luke being stupidly and brokenly OP.

However, this is possibly the one case where I say that Sidious is losing in this regard.

Vader, peak!Vader, presumably has all the experience Anakin got during the Clone Wars. Several years of both frontline and strategic command, that put him second only to Obi-Wan in terms of effectiveness at leadership, if I'm remembering my Prequel material properly. And even then, one can argue if Anakin's more aggressive approach is better than Obi-Wan's more methodical one. The point though, is that Anakin has a lot of experience. And if that carries over to Vader, you then can add another twenty years of hunting Jedi and fighting Rebels and CIS holdouts. And renegade Imperials. And anything else that Palpy sends his right hand man after.

Our Dark Lord of the Sith has more raw experience in combat than a lot of other people in this Draft. He's spent basically his entire adult life, right up to his death, fighting in some way, shape, or form. That adds up. That adds up a lot.

Furthermore, I feel that Vader has more actual skill in combat. Palpy is great at fighting, yes. First rounder by far. But the thing is, Vader is justifiably considered one of the premier lightsaber duelists in the Draft for good reason. Even encumbered by the suit, he's a better fighter with a 'saber than most of the Draft. And that's after completely building his own unique style to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of said suit.

Palpy is great, but Vader has that spark of creativity and raw determination. Palpatine has tricks up his sleeve. But Vader has experience and, perhaps more importantly, he has prep.

He knows, between twenty years working at Palpy's side and his prep, exactly what Palpatine is likely to do and how to counter it. This, all of it, I feel gives Vader the edge here.

Special Force Abilities: Sidious wins, move along.

Joking aside, there's no question here. The suit limited Vader something fierce. He's got raw power and bucketloads of it, but he's not very special in what he throws around. Force Choke is pretty useless in this situation. He's not going to win that way.

Palpy, by contrast, knows way more than a few special and unique abilities. Force Storm is useless here, but otherwise? He has the clear edge in funky powers. Vader, at best, can use his prep to guess what's coming and how to counter it. Sidious wins this by a long shot.

Familiarity: Oddly, this one I feel goes to Vader though.


Sidious may have known Anakin since he was a kid and kept a very close eye on Vader through all his career under his thumb. But the thing is, Vader also kept a close eye on his Master. Always watching for a weakness. Twenty years of this is more than enough time to develop a certain familiarity with his Master, one that is only boosted by the Prep here. Even if Sidious has the edge of his DE time or before that Vader doesn't know about...

The prep now means he does know about it. And has time to think of a way to counter it, which ties back into experience and skill above. So I'd say, with the caveat of the Prep, Vader wins here.

So, in all:
I'd say Vader has the edge in skill, experience, and with the Prep, knowing what to expect and plan for. He's no slouch in tactical terms, so Palpy planning off what he knows going into it, is going to be countered by Vader's prep time.
By contrast, Palpy wins in power and special abilities.

Between the two, I'd say Sidious wins most of the time if there is no prep involved. He wins 9 times out of 10 if he has the Prep.

But Vader has the Prep here. And with that, I think he has just enough to win six times out of ten. He's going to come out of those fights pretty much dead...but I think Vader has just enough oomph to win.

 

To be fair, this is like the one fight that Sidious kinda has auto-prep on. I mean, he has been making contingency plans in preparation of this fight for decades now.

Evil.

 

I don't think I'm going to be able to argue this one, so don't wait up

 

Much appreciated Skywalker_T-65 great job as usual, even with limited rest.

 

Wouldn't Papls get an auto-prep in this match since he was Vader's Master? *sans the events of RoTJ*

 

That is why I said in most cases without either side having formal prep Palpy wins.

Vader having formal Prep works towards countering that.

 

Ahhhhh I see...

You will have to forgive me, I was born blonde.

 

Votes:

Skywalker_T-65 -May The Beard Be With You vs. RX_Sith -The Chosen Ones

1. K'Khruk vs. 1. Ganner Rhysode
3. Dass Jennir vs. 3. Anakin Solo (PREP)
9. Corran Horn TRUMPED Kyp Durron vs. 9. Tahiri/Ikrit


DarthTunick -Coruscant Dogs vs. Mikaboshi -The X-Emperors

1. Darth Vader (PREP) vs. 1. Darth Sidious - Even with the Prep, I don't think Vader has enough to quite take down PEAK Sidious. Peak Sidious is really, really good. Dark Empire level of power. Just too much for Vader. One-on-One, even with prep, the only individual who beats PEAK Sidious is Luke, IMO.
3. Te Corso vs. 3. Mother Talzin TRUMPED Asajj Ventress
9. Brakiss vs. 9. Lord Nyax


The Vanguard -Oh yeah? Watch This vs. cubman987 - We Aren't the Cubs

1. Gethzerion vs. 1. Yoda
3. Exar Kun vs. 3. Yarael Proof/Yaddle TRUMPED Plo Koon/Ki-Adi Mundi -
9. Savage Oppress TRUMPED Darth Maul vs. 9. Mara Jade Skywalker- With Prep. Mara takes it. Without it? She's toast.


Davak24 - The Marauders vs. Evil Incarnate -People who did things... kind of.

1. Kit Fisto/Aayla Secura vs. 1. Aryn Leneer/Ven Zallow -
3. Luminara Unduli/Bariss Offee vs. 3. Satale Shan
9. X2 vs. Sarro Xaj TRUMPED Raskta Lsu


Darkslayer - Team Super Cool vs. DarkEagle - I heard that DE had an 8-pack, that DE was shredded

1. Mace Windu vs. 1. Kar Vastor -
3. Meetra Surik vs. 3. Lord Scourge (PREP) -
9. Kao Cen Darach vs. 9. Darth Talon/Darth Nihl

 

Yodaminch Point Given

Let's wrap this ip judges please.

 

Just agree with me so Te Corso can win a match and we can all break out our favorite mascot head gear to celebrate.

 

Talzin/Ventress over Te Corso
Kit/Aayla barely over Aryn/Ven

And as to the main fight. So, I get the idea that Palpatine sort of has auto prep for this. What Master doesn't expect their apprentice to turn. And he did essentially kill Vader by electrocuting him too so it's not like he hasn't done it before.

Two things:
1) Nothing really stops Vader if his mind is set on something. However, one should consider what happened when Palpatine learned of Starkiller and how quickly Vader betrayed him, along with some of the various tests Palpatine subjected Vader to. So my big issue is how he gets the drop on Palpatine. I am not so sure he does. But as mentioned, Vader has powered through some tough situations. Heck, he survived being thrice amputated and lit on fire. He knows Palpatine's lightning might kill him. So how he prepares for that is I dunno grounding his suit? Still, he certainly has considered trying to overthrow Palpatine before given his offer to Luke to rule the galaxy as father and son.

That brings us to point 2. Palpatine's overconfidence is his weakness. See this is where I see Palpatine faltering. He has been expecting this for years. He has likely prepared for every contingency he could think of. And that's how I think Vader wins. He'll take the one scenario Palpatine hasn't thought of and use that. Vader has proven to be a very cunning strategist. Palpatine may be the master in this game of chess, but Vader knows his master. With time to prepare, I am certain he could lull Palpatine into leaving himself vulnerable somehow.

Winner: Vader

Hoping that was all of them. If I missed one, please let me know.

 

I'm back! And I cannot believe people are arguing Vader vs Sidious!

 

Yesss....yeaasssssss

 

IMO Prepared Peak Darth Vader is one of the most Dangerous Characters in the draft. Period. Rage, Brains, Brawn, and he hates everyone. Awesome.

Final Votes:

Skywalker_T-65 -May The Beard Be With You (1) vs. RX_Sith -The Chosen Ones (2)

1. K'Khruk vs. 1. Ganner Rhysode
3. Dass Jennir vs. 3. Anakin Solo (PREP)
9. Corran Horn TRUMPED Kyp Durron vs. 9. Tahiri/Ikrit

DarthTunick -Coruscant Dogs (1) vs. Mikaboshi -The X-Emperors (2)

1. Darth Vader (PREP) vs. 1. Darth Sidious
3. Te Corso vs. 3. Mother Talzin TRUMPED Asajj Ventress
9. Brakiss vs. 9. Lord Nyax

The Vanguard -Oh yeah? Watch This (2) vs. cubman987 - We Aren't the Cubs (1)

1. Gethzerion vs. 1. Yoda
3. Exar Kun vs. 3. Yarael Proof/Yaddle TRUMPED Plo Koon/Ki-Adi Mundi
9. Savage Oppress TRUMPED Darth Maul vs. 9. Mara Jade Skywalker

Davak24 - The Marauders (1) vs. Evil Incarnate -People who did things... kind of (2)

1. Kit Fisto/Aayla Secura vs. 1. Aryn Leneer/Ven Zallow
3. Luminara Unduli/Bariss Offee vs. 3. Satale Shan
9. X2 vs. Sarro Xaj TRUMPED Raskta Lsu

Darkslayer - Team Super Cool (2) vs. DarkEagle - I heard that DE had an 8-pack, that DE was shredded (1)

1. Mace Windu vs. 1. Kar Vastor -
3. Meetra Surik vs. 3. Lord Scourge (PREP)
9. Kao Cen Darach vs. 9. Darth Talon/Darth Nihl
_____________________________________________________________________________

Next Matches: 2, 8, 10

Skywalker_T-65 -May The Beard Be With You (1) vs. RX_Sith -The Chosen Ones (2)

2. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. 2. Anakin Skywalker (YES!)
8. Quinlan Vos vs. 8. Tenal Ka TRUMPED Rey
10. Rahm Kota vs. 10. Jaina Solo

DarthTunick -Coruscant Dogs (1) vs. Mikaboshi -The X-Emperors (2)

2. Qui-Gon Jinn vs. 2. Darth Sion
8. Streen vs. 8. Darth Krayt
10. Tol Skorr vs. 10. Asajj Ventress TRUMPED Mother Talzin (FORFEIT)

The Vanguard -Oh yeah? Watch This (2) vs. cubman987 - We Aren't the Cubs (1)

2. Darth Mail TRUMPED Savage Oppress (FORFEIT) vs. 2. Jedi TRUMP (FORFEIT)
8. Darth Plagueis vs. 8. Lowbacca/Tesar Sebatyne
10. Darth Marr TRUMPED Darth Angral.Lord Adraas vs. 10. Shaak Ti

Davak24 - The Marauders (1) vs. Evil Incarnate -People who did things... kind of (2)

2. Agen Kolar/Eeth Koth vs. 2. Leia Organa Solo
8. Zayne Carrick vs. 8. Gnost Dural (PREP)
10. Ben Skywalker vs. 10. Ulic Qel-Droma

Darkslayer - Team Super Cool (2) vs. DarkEagle - I heard that DE had an 8-pack, that DE was shredded (1)

2. Revan vs. 2. Darth Bane (2nd YES!)
8. Lord Hoth.Valenthyne Falfalla vs. 8. Darth Zannah
10. Senya Trall TRUMPED Bastila Shan vs. 10. Arcann

Yodaminch DarthIntegral Point Given

 

Aside from Obi-Wan v Anakin and Revan v Bane, we also have Senya vs. Arcann? Some good matches this round. Hoping for some good arguments over Thabksgiving break.

 

Happy Thanksgiving my American friends.