Games The 24th Jedi Draft - I will finish What Horax Started (Winner: DarkEagle!)

Except that it's against the rules ...

 

Hmm, I don't believe I've seen that rule.

Evil.

 

It's part of the landscape that was given for the fight. I always understood that you can't use prep time to create monsters or bring in droids and stuff, but we've always considered landscape.

Either way, I don't think my trump needs it to begin with. Talzin and Asajj at peak, as we are supposed to be viewing them at per the rules, trumped and on Korriban is a huge threat to a Jedi. The naturally cohesive trump, their well documented and impressive displays of power and skill, and the location all stack up against Ashoka in significant ways.

If a judge wants to say that a pick like Talzin is all of a sudden going to be judged as significantly less powerful than she has been judged all draft I'm ok with it, however this is the most beneficial location she's been given for the entire game and to suddenly use location against her is kind of weak.

Anyhow have at it.

 

Sure. You could technically argue that "undead Sith Warriors" aren't living beings ... but, no. I think that's pretty clear.

 

I would argue that this is just using the environment around her. Is it against the rules for other people to pick up huge rocks and other things with the force and throw them at people? This is essentially the same thing here. Yes, I'll give that it's a tad more complicated, but it is also a well documented feat that she has accomplished without too much effort. If she wasn't fighting in a graveyard, this would definitely be against the rules. But she is, and by the rules I still don't see why she couldn't do this.

Darth_Furio Can you provide a concise ruling on this? It is your game afterall.

Evil.

 

It says clearly that "Prep does not allow bringing any other living beings INTO the arena", doesn't say a word about animating dead creatures already existing in the battle location. Korriban is full of dead, always has been, Talzin can animate dead. She doesn't have to bring anything into the battle location to do this, and since she isn't prepared and the rule is specifically about what isn't allowed for prep that rule doesn't even really seem to apply.

 

What's the source on Talzin even being able to reanimate anyone? Because in Massacre (TCW 4x19) Talzin clearly isn't the one doing the resurrection

 

That's a pretty terrible argument, IMO. Spirit of the rule vs. letter of the law. I've always considered these 1 on 1 (or 2 on 1 or 2 on 2) with no ability to bring in an army with you.

Granted, I don't think the trump needs an army of undead Sith here. I'm going to vote trump.

 

I said earlier that it doesn't matter to me either, I really don't think it is something necessary for this trump to get a win, but the rule is fairly specific and doesn't really translate well to me. Prep characters can't bring in assistance, my character is neither prepared nor bringing anything into the fight that isn't already on the battlefield. Characters have always been allowed to use the battlefield to their benefit, it's not my fault that the location selected is full of dead bodies and I happen to have a character who can animate them.

To me it's not really that much different than throwing around rocks with telekinesis, but hey....whatevs.

 

Tis' true, Talzin doesn't actually do the resurrecting on Dathomir. She sends Asajj to go wake up Grandma and have her do the magic to summon the Men of the Mountain dead sisters.

 

Doesn't matter to me much, as I said all good either way because that trump is better than Akosha.

 

Mikaboshi -The X-Emperors (2) vs. cubman987 - We Aren't the Cubs (4)

1. Asajj Ventress trumped w/ Mother Talzin vs. 1. Ahsoka Tano - I love me some Ahsoka, she's hell of a powerful, she's done some fantastic feats. But, the Tartakovsky Clone Wars series still counts, right? Peak Asajj gets a LOT of benefit there. I think the trump is a little too much together for Ahsoka.
3. Mother Talzin Trumped w/ Asajj Ventress (FORFEIT) vs. 3. Plo Koon/Ki-Adi Mundi TRUMPED Yarael Proof/Yaddle (FORFEIT) - DRAW
6. Darth Malgus vs. 6. Arca Jeth TRUMPED Vodo Siosk-Bass (FORFEIT)
8. Darth Sidious vs. 8. Lowbacca/Tesar Sebatyne - This one is going to smell bad.

Evil Incarnate -People who did things... kind of (2) vs. Skywalker_T-65 -May The Beard Be With You (4)

1: Leia Organa Solo vs. 1. Dass Jennir
3. Ulic Qel-Droma 3. Cade Skywalker - Yeah, Krayt is a better win than anything Ulic has. It's close, so I'll take quality of best win.
6. Aryn Leneer/Ven Zallow vs. 6. Quinlan Vos
8: Kol Skywalker trumped with Nat Skywalker (FORFEIT) vs. 8. Corran Horn TRUMPED with Kyp Durron (FORFEIT) - DRAW

 

Well I guess you all figured it out without me. My apologies. Daughter has a fever and yesterday was my turn to take care of her. I would have said that Korriban"s location can only be manipulated in terms of harnessing dark side energies. I would not have allowed the reanimating of the dead. Also, I would have voted the trump as well. Ahsoka is great but these two in particular have the ear marks of a high end team. They know each other, have faced off and faired well against highend opponents, and they have location boost. It was easy for me when I wrote it out.

Evil Incarnate Skywalker_T-65 I'll give you both a few more hours for Ulic vs. Cade. Then I'll ask for final judgements. Thanks all

 

Reasoning on the Aryn/Ven < Quinlan call?

It doesn't really matter much at this point though

 

I like the letter Q.

 

Yeah had I not been busy and watching the weather like a hawk (thankfully it seems to be missing me) I would have said the same with Talzin and the Zombies (that would be an awesome band name). Seems to violate the spirit of the 'no bringing in outside help' rule, if not the actual letter of it. Like fighting on Genosis and letting Dooku bring in bugs or droids.

Anywho, Cade and Ulic.

I trend towards ranking the latter higher than most. I mean, he was the number one pick on my first team. But the real question is...how well what he has, measures against what Cade has. And in most cases, Cade is going to come out ahead.

Talon is better than Cay for example.

And Krayt is way better than Kun these days, since the former has only been boosted by stuff like FoTJ, while the latter has lost rep thanks to Tales being...what it is. Good storyline, but it's not really good for power level. Skill sure, but raw power has really fallen off for that entire period. Especially Kun who got most of his best feats because he was boosted.

Krayt...one can argue the particulars of that fight. How Cade won because Krayt did a dumb at the end. But the thing is, we have other cases where this has happened and we don't judge the winners of those fights harshly.

Anakin and Dooku were evenly matched in their last bout, until Dooku did a dumb and taunted him too far. We don't say 'well, if Dooks weren't being an idiot he would beat Anakin'. I should know since I had to argue that exact fight

Luke and Vader were much the same, if not with a slight edge to Darth Dad. Until at least...Vader pushed Luke too far and paid the price for it. We don't say that Vader was better than Luke despite all the indications that he should have been at that point (clearly Luke is leagues beyond his father now, but I'm sure you know what I mean).

Jacen and Mara could easily have ended with the latter winning, if the former hadn't cheap-shotted her.

...all of these involve Skywalkers. Huh.

Anyway, the point is simple. Even if Cade beat Krayt because Krayt did something stupid, he still beat Krayt. This is a fact. Ulic is probably the better duelist, but there are very very few members of the Draft I would pick over him based purely on lightsaber ability. Maybe Windu or Dooku. Ulic is just that good with his lightsaber, both with and without the Force.

But Cade is almost certainly the more powerful. In both raw power in the Force and his more...unique...abilities. Partly a result of the medium- Legacy is much more tilted to impressive Force feats than Tales -and partly because Cade is a Skywalker.

It's a matter of power, experience, and raw skill. Two of these I lean towards Cade who has more raw power and more visible experience than Ulic. Ulic is going to be the better duelist, though one can argue by how much...but how much good does that do him? He could and likely will end up like Dooku. The better technical fighter, but overwhelmed by that Skywalker power.

 

Yodaminch didn't vote on that match and Point Given hasn't been around, so it matters.

 

Final Results:

Mikaboshi -The X-Emperors (5) vs. cubman987 - We Aren't the Cubs (4) - One Draw in Match

1. Asajj Ventress trumped w/ Mother Talzin vs. 1. Ahsoka Tano
3. Mother Talzin Trumped w/ Asajj Ventress (FORFEIT) vs. 3. Plo Koon/Ki-Adi Mundi TRUMPED Yarael Proof/Yaddle (FORFEIT) - DRAW
6. Darth Malgus vs. 6. Arca Jeth TRUMPED Vodo Siosk-Bass (FORFEIT)
8. Darth Sidious vs. 8. Lowbacca/Tesar Sebatyne

Evil Incarnate -People who did things... kind of (3) vs. Skywalker_T-65 -May The Beard Be With You (6) - One Draw in Match

1: Leia Organa Solo vs. 1. Dass Jennir
3. Ulic Qel-Droma vs 3. Cade Skywalker
6. Aryn Leneer/Ven Zallow vs. 6. Quinlan Vos
8: Kol Skywalker trumped with Nat Skywalker (FORFEIT) vs. 8. Corran Horn TRUMPED with Kyp Durron (FORFEIT) - DRAW

Congrats to Mikaboshi and Skywalker_T-65! Evil Incarnate cubman987 Thanks you for your participation!
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Confrence Finals

Darth Horax Conference Final Match

The Vanguard -Oh yeah? Watch This. vs. Mikaboshi -The X-Emperors

Ken Kenobi Conference Final Match

DarkEagle - I heard that DE had an 8-pack, that DE was shredded vs. Skywalker_T-65 -May The Beard Be With You

Location: Kachirho, Kashyyyk



Please submit your numbers...

Skywalker_T-65 DarkEagle The Vanguard Mikaboshi

 

I'm sure that's the kind of breakdown Evil Incarnate is hoping for on a season-ending call on a, imo, reasonably close match.

I mean yeah, but skywalker had already won at that point

 

Right, understood.

 

Point taken, but not really a season-ending call. Cade/Ulic already decided that one.

It's a close match, no doubt. I'm unimpressed with the duo, and see nothing suggesting they are capable of besting Quinlan. It's pure gut, as none of them are all that impressive.