Games The 25th Jedi Draft - The Silver Anniversary Edition!! (Champion: Point Given!)

Meanwhile, I don't really have anything to add to mine.

...mostly because I'm completely worn out and don't see anything I could add at this point.

 

EDIT: Crap, sorry. Hit post halfway though. It's not done baking yet.

 

Okay, just to clarify, perhaps "cohesion personified" wasn't the right term to use. I could've drafted certain characters at certain spots, making a 100% PT team whose cohesion would've been even better than what I ended up with. Absolutely I could have done that... while most likely sacrificing the ability to even make it to teams. So that would've been stupid.

Anyways, when you talked about Kaan's BM and compared it to Oppo's, you left a lot out. A whole great big bunch. Here's what really happened (editing out unnecessaries, because I don't want to be typing all night, and underlines are mine, obviously):

Wait. Meditation sphere? Does he get a meditation sphere in this fight? But maybe he doesn't really need the sphere. Moving on.

So far, so good.

Oh... that's quite an effort.

Oh... ummmm... oh. Okay, but yes, this is large battle and this is still an impressive feat overall (no, I'm not being sarcastic there).

Then it goes on to describe the effects of BM, which I'm pretty sure we all know. Then it describes how the Republic fleet is in total disarray, they can't scramble their fighters, their capital ships are under heavy fire and can't really counter, no support is coming, Kaan can feel the panic in the Republic forces, etc, etc. He really is doing an absolute number on them. "Victory was his!" (actual quote right before things take a hard left for him on the corner 4th and Oh, **** Blvd."

Well that's odd...

*summary mode activated* The Republic ships are now counterattacking. The maneuver the pulled off to destroy the Fury was supposedly impossible. Kaan orders some evasive actions, but now the Republic is scrambling their fighters extremely quickly. Impossibly quickly, given the circumstances. They begin to establish a defensive line. How is this happening? Kaan reaches out to feel the minds of the enemy again. There is no longer any panic. He feels discipline, purpose and resolve. And he also feels another presence. A Jedi Master who is countering his BM with one of their own.

Then Kopecz, who is in a starfighter during the battle, also feels the BM of the Jedi Master crash over him and he nearly eats **** (figuratively speaking) before composing himself and managing to recover. He senses where the Jedi is and moves in on a mission to kill them.

*ahem* Sorry 'bout that. Tourettes.

So it is worth noting, element of surprise aside, Kaan was willing inferior numbers to victory. Not unimpressive. But here's the crucial part right here.

Doesn't that fly directly in the face of the other source that quoted him as an "expert"? What this battle gives us is a crystal clear example of how not all battle meditations are created equal. Unopposed, Kaan was doing quite well for himself. But when opposed in the technique by a true master of it, his relative weakness in it is quickly and clearly exposed. Kaan is NOT a master of battle meditation. He's a dabbler.

And then it goes on for a bit. Kaan tries one last desperate surge of power, and it does absolutely nothing. Then, finally, Kopecz boards the Republic ship, slices down a couple of chumpy Padawans, and then kills the nameless Jedi Master (who was not using a meditation sphere, btw), ending her BM and allowing the Sith to escape with a victory. Kaan didn't win that battle. Kopecz did.

As to Kaan claiming that he could influence the entire war with his BM, two things.

1. At that point, the war was being fought almost entirely on Ruusan. One planet. That's where most of the Jedi were, and that's where ALL of the Sith were. Even if it were not for the upcoming #2, not nearly as impressive as Oppo trying to (possibly being able to succeed in) influence a war that spanned hundred of worlds across light years of space.

2. Kaan is a loon and I don't care what he thinks of himself and his abilities. It can't be trusted. Here's what you left out when you quoted Githany marveling at his power:

Then he notices her, immediately discards his true form of an absolute lunatic, driven mad by the stress of keeping the Brotherhood from collapsing. And then he uses his... I dunno, Force Aura? And that's when we get the quote where Githany think he could crush her like a beetle. It's all just a show. He is a very good manipulator, I will give him that. But not much more. And he's no BM master, not even aided by a meditation sphere. Not like you're making him out to be.



Oppo, however, is. Arca, however, is.

Let's talk about Arca's BM for a second, while we're here.

He first discovered the technique while fighting the Nelori marauders. And when I say fighting, I mean in the middle of the battle. He was engaging them in physical combat, and then he had a nice little epiphany and just naturally started to use the technique. No sphere, no nothing. And he willed his team of Jedi to victory against overwhelming odds. And oh yeah, this was decades before he even became a Jedi Master.

Then during the Freedon's Nadds uprising, he single-handedly turned the entire tide of the battle on Onderon, without even breaking a sweat (or maybe he toweled off before talking to Ulic and Cay, I dunno). Just for giggles, here's the narration:

Another Jedi ship has arrived over the battleground. It is piloted by a man of unusual wisdom and ability. As the ship hovers, the dark power meets an unexpected adversary-- one who experienced in Jedi battle meditation--

Every soldier knows that war is more than arms and armor. Every warrior carries an image of impending victory in his heart. When the image shatters, to be replaced by a vision of defeat... he is beaten. But sometimes a warrior receives assistance from an unexpected source. An inrush of light, blasting away his overwhelming fear and despair, releasing new inner strength.

Yes, a war is so much more than arms and armor. Half of every conflict is the will to win. In the time of the Jedi, the will to win and the power of war are given by the dark side. Or, as dawn throws back the night... they are given by the light!

*single tear*

One should easily be enough to overpower Kaan and his amateur BM, but if even for a brief moment, both Arca and Oppo used the ability together, it would end up something like...



Battle meditation of the highest order + the mind meld (which should be a snap for most of these Jedi to pick up, and Kenobi's already a master) to bolster what's already an enormous natural cohesion advantage, is what ultimately makes Dirty Ben and his peeps the superior team. Between not only Kenobi, but Oppo's strategic mind as well, they'll have every contingency covered.

In the end, fear and intimidation is no match for cooperation and friendship.



Remind me, who was proven right in that little exchange?

Now imagine that bolstered by battle meditation.


Imagine Obi-Wan, Ahsoka and Qui-Gon and what they could be capable of with their minds synched. Kit and Aayla as well.

Imagine what Tresina Lobi, who took it, and I mean TOOK IT to a Lumiya and Alema trump before ultimately falling short could do when backed up by friends, the meld and battle meditation. That little mental trickery that Alema snuck into Lobi's mind in a vulnerable moment, which proved to be what ended the fight? Not happening now.

Furthermore, Zannah's and Krayts mind fragging? So much less effective, if even effective at all. Especially against the top dawgs on my squad.

MTDGA is a very tough and powerful group of individuals, and this will in no way be easy. In a vacuum, they are more powerful at the top. Sidious is... Sidious. But it's not an insurmountable obstacle. My team may not have that top end power, but they gain ground at the bottom. They are also highly skilled, and most importantly, naturally extremely cohesive, which is then backed by numerous intangibles that push that edge even further. And they are led by the absolute best at maximizing talent.

The top tier individuals on my team can hold the respective top opposition off. They can hold them long enough. Those lower on the MTDGA totem pole will be vulnerable to the cohesive onslaught. And then the survivors can trickle upward and provide support. There'll be losses for sure. There's no way this isn't extremely close.

Make The Darkside Great Again?

No.

Stronger Together.

 

Never thought a Kanye gif would ever pop up around here.

Now I've seen everything.

 

I've seen stranger things in drafts.

(Waiting to see how the judges vote)

 

Stranger Things?




Alright let's slay these demagorgons...


Skywalker_T-65 vs. RX_Sith

Skywalker > Windu
Ulic > Kyle
Cade = Asajj
Ben >= Raskta
Aryn/Ven >= Kanan/Ezra
Wolf/Shado > Zekk
Nat <= Jolee/Juhani
Gnost Dural > Roan Fel (Skystrider I'll give you the Gnost Dural bits, even though you literally copied & pasted TLI's work haha. Technically Fel is a Skywalker though so you should've taken him anyway lol)
Celeste Morne = Sylvar
Zayne Carrick = Githany

Wow. That's a bunch of equals signs and down the entire line it sets up to be a slobberknocker. Really this looks like a classic skill vs. power matchup, especially in that top 4-- Vaapad, NJO Battlemaster, Ventress, and New Sith Wars Weapon Master vs. 3 Skywalkers and a pseudo-Skywalker in Qel-Droma.

I think you could see that manifesting a few ways-- the bladework of RX could put the pressure on their opponents and limit their ability to blow through the battle with power, or Skystrider could straight up start tearing peeps apart and get a numbers advantage.

Where I think those scenarios shift is in the skill vs. power differences, which are more in Sky's favor-- i.e. someone like Cade can hang with Asajj in a duel moreso than she can hang with him in trading Force blows.

Adding in their experience together-- a solid Legacy gang, Anakin & Ulic from that Clone Wars video game (which to be fair Windu wrecks people in too, but beating the Dark Reaper is part of why I have Ulic over Kyle)-- plus potential liabilities from Githany (a distraction for Mace) and Sylvar (charging at Ulic in a blood rage again?), I think they take it in a prolonged one.

Winner: Skywalker_T65



DarkEagle vs. Wang Chi

Sids > Kenobi
Zannah > Ahsoka
Krayt > Saba
Vaylin > Leia
Kaan/Kas'im < Kit/Aayla
Sora >= Old Acre
Treia < KiMundo/Oppo
Sarasu < Qui-Gon
Viun > Lobi
Jerec/Sariss > Fay

This one's a little more straightforward as DE pretty well dominates individually. The master/apprentice combos (and yes, Obi-Wan's intangibles!) help Wang's team hang, but the problem is those masters are gonna have their hands full. Saba vs Krayt would be a spectacular matchup for example, but Leia will need all the support she can get to not die in 5 secs against Vaylin (who spends most of Fallen Empire wrecking ****, and whose battle with Arcann alone puts her in another stratosphere than Alema Rar). If that happens, having Kenobi/Qui/Ahsoka work together creates a solid trio, but Sids/Zannah/Krayt is a huge task...and moreover it crucially would allow the Lost Tribers to work together, blow through their matchup, and bolster others. And so on and so forth.

To overcome that kind of Top 4 disparity, you need a team that's tighter as a unit and can trim the opponent's numbers to free up resources for the big guns. The first part is there for Wang, the second part not so much-- any teamwork that helps them gang up on someone like Sids leaves a bad vulnerability elsewhere, and it doesn't help that Fay is somehow less useful than Kraya (in fact if someone figured out how to use that old witch, it'd be Palps. Or Revan I guess. Yun-Yuuzhan I just wanna forget that game).

Kenobi goes down swinging.

Winner: DarkEagle

 

It's not my fault TLI made the best argument

Joking aside, I don't have these materials so I'll have to drag the actual book quotes from old args by others. And then add my own words to it. More time, hopefully, to do that in other matches.

 

fyi, I will be out until Tuesday, September 5th -- a mix of hurricane and the start of classes. I'll see you all then.

 

Yodaminch Evil Incarnate

 

Team Skywalker has too many Skywalker that they just skywalk over Mace and blow him and his crew out a windu.

As to the other....

I am throwing it to three and going team Kenobi. As far as generals go, really isn't a better one- except maybe Leia who is also on the team. Anakin's friends and family vs. Sidious might just be enough if they can take down the others. And it is in the lower tier where the sith start to fall apart. Kenobi'a team is relatively tough too. These aren't people that typically go down easily. So to three judges.

 

It is all up to Evil now

 

minch did you steal my Percocet

The ease with which you equate those two things lmao

"Yeah I'm busy with school and OH A ****ING HURRICANE"

 

I'll have my decision up later tonight after work. Please feel free to argue further though.

Evil.

 

As someone that's usually on the receiving end of hurricanes, stay safe and good luck

 

Damn, I flopped back and forth on this one for quite a while. Both teams have reasons they should win IMO, and both teams certainly have their weak points. What decided this for me was which team would be better able to take advantage of the other team's weaknesses. On one hand, Palpatine kinda just comes up with half cocked plans and assumes they're going to work because they normally do, and he has no one the challenge his ideas. He is supremely over confidant and mostly only a genius when it comes to long term subtle planning. Club Obi-Wan on the other hand has plenty of strategic power, and a double dose of pro level battle meditation to back it up. What this team lacks in power, they more than make up for in skill, experience, cohesion, and just straight up smarts both before and in the heat of battle. Obi-Wan is more than skilled enough on pure defense to hold of Sidious until his team can make up the difference from the back end.

Both of you, well argued.
Congrats on the win, Wang Chi

Evil.

 

Glad you picked Wang (and Kenobi! ) b/c I wanna note how v v dumb Yodaminch's explanation was independent of that match

Imagine for example if Evil didn't have work today or I wasn't rehabbing an injury-- if he posts his judgement first and minch "throws it to 3" by voting DE, then DE wins when I make my judgment last.

You had 3 dudes who argued extensively (RX WHERE ART THOU) and you went with "they can skywalk out a windu lol." Really hope you were drinking beerz for that post

 

Also, and this is crucial, I voted for Cilghal and have no legs to stand on here

Well...one leg

 

Nope. Just nearly a week with little sleep instead. Work is crazy busy. Barely got sleep this morning before being woke up. Then off to another week of this. Could only type so much because on phone but wasn't sure when I would next find time to judge. Overworked + understaffed = quick judgement with really, really bad puns. Thankfully this is the last week.

 

When we gettin the next match up? I still gotta pre-game for the fight tonight.

I would hate to argue while inebriated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What is wrong with you?

 

We should do a mini-Draft where we're all sloshed tbh

 

gg, DarkEagle. gfg.

 

I need a comeback here!

0Oo0O with cards against humanity style judging?