Games The 25th Jedi Draft - The Silver Anniversary Edition!! (Champion: Point Given!)

Damn - that Shan/Windu needs a good argument. I'll try to get one up, but no promises.

 

Oof.

Well this is a fun set...

 

Happy New Year all.

Judges please...

@KenKenobi
@Yodaminch
@Evil Incarnate

Round 5

Numbers 1, 4, 6, 9

Location: Malachor (KOTOR II)

The Rebel Division

RX_Sith (1) vs. DarthIntegral (2)

1. Zekk vs. 1. Kol Skywalker TRUMPED with Ganner Rhysode
4. Sylvar Trumped with Raskta Lsu vs. 4. Jaden Korr
6. Mace Windu vs. 6. Satele Shan
9. Raskta Lsu Trumped with Sylvar (FORFEIT) vs. 9. Kam Solusar

Point Given (3) vs. ma_petite (0)

1. Vestara Khai/Gavar Khai vs. 1. Corran Horn trumped with Neeja Halcyon
4. Bastila Shan vs. 4. Neeja Halcyon trumped with Corran Horn (FORFEIT)
6. Desann/Tavion Axmis vs. 6. Kylo Ren
9. K'Kruhk vs. 9. Valin Horn/Jysella Horn

Skywalker_T-65 (3) vs. Mikaboshi (0)

1. Gnost Dural (PREP) vs, 1. Lumiya
4. Wolf Sazen/Shado Vao vs. 4. Darth Nyriss/Darth Baras
6. Celeste Morne TRUMPED with Zayne Carrick (FORFEIT) vs. 6. Mother Talzin (PREP)
9. Nat Skywalker vs. 9. Lord Scourge

The Empire Division

cubman987 (2) vs. BookExogorth (1)

1.Darth Azard/Darth Havok TRUMPED Darth Stryfe vs. 1. Ferus Olin
4. Darth Malak vs. 4. Kar Vastor
6. Darth Nihilus TRUMPED Darth Sion vs. 6. Luminara Unduli/Bariss Offee
9. Darth Bane vs. 9. Darth Marr Trumped with Darth Maladi (FORFEIT)

Wang Chi (3) vs. PRENNTACULAR (0)

1. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. 1. Galen Marek
4. Qui-Gon Jinn trumped with Ki-Adi Mundi/Oppo Rancisis (FORFEIT) vs. 4. Lowbacca / Tesar TRUMPED with Octa Ramis (FORFEIT)
6. Saba Sebatyne vs. 6. Tahiri Veila / Ikrit TRUMPED with Sarro Xaj
9. Tresina Lobi trumped with Fay (FORFEIT) vs. 9. Anakin Solo PREPPED

Dark Eagle (2) vs. The Vanguard (1)

1. Vaylin vs. 1. Vodo Siosk Bass
4. Jerec/Sariss vs. 4. Tsui Choi/Bultar Swan
6. Darth Zannah vs. 6. Quinlan Vos TRUMPED An'ya Kuro
9. Darth Krayt vs. 9. An'ya Kuro TRUMPED Quinlan Vos (FORFEIT)

 

Look, I know Jerec/Sariss v Choi/Swan is an insanely difficult match to judge (psst- Jerec would clobber those scrubs), but no need to hold up judgements on the rest

 

My youngest brother (who I'm lucky to see twice in one year) was here for the last week, which is why I didn't have time to argue anything. That said...

Gnost can beat Lumiya, I think. Yes she has more impressive feats. But Lumiya tends to stumble a bit if something comes up she isn't expecting. Gnost, by contrast, is going into this knowing her and knowing about the lightwhip. He'd totally bring in a shoto and be ready to counter it, and he's hardly a slouch himself. Plus he could come up with a plan to counter anything she does, or to throw her off her game. Not to mention knowing the location beforehand. I wouldn't call it easy, but I think the prep gives him the edge needed.

(if not for the prep, he'd lose. No question)

I would also like to say the Legacy trump wins their bout. Based on their breadth of experience and the way they work together, if nothing else. Wolf and Shado both have plenty of experience against (admittedly low quality) Sith under their belts. Furthermore, they work very well together, and Shado has that double-saber going on. So I would like to say they can win.

I just don't know enough about who they're up against :V

Nat, meanwhile, is boned. Poor Nat.

 

So the Saba vs. trump match is pretty fun, but here's why Saba should win:

Tahiri is definitely solid, and I really do like Ikrit as a supporting element (and cohesion between the two is, of course, very nice). The rabbit has some nice power for sure. That said, nothing they've done (either alone or together) really matches up to Saba at her best. Nothing really compares to what Saba did against the Abeloth avatar (can provide some quotes if needed, naturally), not to mention all the rest.

I suppose the real question is: does Xaj add enough to put the group over the top? Eh, no. Not IMO. I've kinda already made my thoughts on Xaj pretty obvious, but once again, BM is not a factor here, so he should be quite a bit less impressive here than he was on the Duel on Tython (not once have we seen what he's capable of when not being boosted by BM). More importantly, IMO, a lot of his "success" against Z on Tython had a great deal to do with him taking advantage of the style difference and her lack of physical strength in comparison to him.

Ummmm, trying to power-duel against Saba is a bad ending for Xaj. Bad, awful, ugly matchup for him. He's out of his element. He's ****ed. Nice try, thanks for playing. Kinda like...



Saba has a lot on her plate here, but frankly, she's faced worse and come out on top.

 

Satele has never lost a hand. Ergo, she should win over Mace.

That's the best you're getting out of me for arguments.

 

RX_Sith (1) vs. DarthIntegral (2)

1. Zekk vs. 1. Kol Skywalker TRUMPED with Ganner Rhysode
4. Sylvar Trumped with Raskta Lsu vs. 4. Jaden Korr
6. Mace Windu vs. 6. Satele Shan - This one was rough for me, but I think Mace's pure melee focus would win out in the end. That being said this is not a quick fight, and Mace would probably almost die a lot.
9. Raskta Lsu Trumped with Sylvar (FORFEIT) vs. 9. Kam Solusar

Point Given (3) vs. ma_petite (0)

1. Vestara Khai/Gavar Khai vs. 1. Corran Horn trumped with Neeja Halcyon
4. Bastila Shan vs. 4. Neeja Halcyon trumped with Corran Horn (FORFEIT)
6. Desann/Tavion Axmis vs. 6. Kylo Ren - I don't think these two could even touch Kylo.
9. K'Kruhk vs. 9. Valin Horn/Jysella Horn

Skywalker_T-65 (3) vs. Mikaboshi (0)

1. Gnost Dural (PREP) vs, 1. Lumiya
4. Wolf Sazen/Shado Vao vs. 4. Darth Nyriss/Darth Baras - I don't see Wolf/Shado winning over someone who quickly overpowered the Exile/Scourge trump as easily as she did. Darth Baras will honestly just sit back and eat popcorn during this match.
6. Celeste Morne TRUMPED with Zayne Carrick (FORFEIT) vs. 6. Mother Talzin (PREP)
9. Nat Skywalker vs. 9. Lord Scourge

cubman987 (2) vs. BookExogorth (1)

1.Darth Azard/Darth Havok TRUMPED Darth Stryfe vs. 1. Ferus Olin
4. Darth Malak vs. 4. Kar Vastor
6. Darth Nihilus TRUMPED Darth Sion vs. 6. Luminara Unduli/Bariss Offee - The sith trump gets a lot of hate, but together I feel they are greater than the sum of their parts and can take down this duo.
9. Darth Bane vs. 9. Darth Marr Trumped with Darth Maladi (FORFEIT)

Wang Chi (3) vs. PRENNTACULAR (0)

1. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. 1. Galen Marek - Poor Starkiller.
4. Qui-Gon Jinn trumped with Ki-Adi Mundi/Oppo Rancisis (FORFEIT) vs. 4. Lowbacca / Tesar TRUMPED with Octa Ramis (FORFEIT)
6. Saba Sebatyne vs. 6. Tahiri Veila / Ikrit TRUMPED with Sarro Xaj
9. Tresina Lobi trumped with Fay (FORFEIT) vs. 9. Anakin Solo PREPPED

Dark Eagle (2) vs. The Vanguard (1)

1. Vaylin vs. 1. Vodo Siosk Bass
4. Jerec/Sariss vs. 4. Tsui Choi/Bultar Swan
6. Darth Zannah vs. 6. Quinlan Vos TRUMPED An'ya Kuro
9. Darth Krayt vs. 9. An'ya Kuro TRUMPED Quinlan Vos (FORFEIT)

Evil.

 

...oooohhh, she's from that Revan novel I tried to wipe from memory isn't she


(meanwhile, Mika has Caedus and C'boath/Nyax (in a trump or individual for those two) left. If I'm keeping track.

Meanwhile, I have the Skywalker Triple Threat. That is, Anakin, Cade and Ben. Hmm)

 

omg I'm so late on this! But to be fair it was the holidays so...let's get to it...

RX vs Inty

The Ganner/Kol over Zekk
Sylvar/Raskta over Jaden-- I like Jaden a lot, especially given the amount of weapons he can pack, but without prep he's gonna get a lot of pressure from two blade artists (and I don't have the TotJ Companion on me, but I think Sylvar might actually be one of those cases where WotC gives her BM-- in which case Raskta can become her amped-up self...but I'm not entirely basing my judgment on that fyi)
Windu over Satele-- One of those you'd love to see, ultimately I think Mace might actually like opening himself up to the Malachor chaos (poetically with his Shatterpoint ability in a place that is already shattered)
Kam via forfeit

Pointy G vs. sey

The Khais over the Horns-- I just like their ceiling more, and they have better cohesion
Bastila via forfeit
Desann/Tavion over Kylo-- So okay, this is tough. On one hand I'm not ready to give this to a dude who can't seem to remember he has the Force against the Praetorian Guards...on the other, he straight-up brings a building down onto Luke Skywalker's head. Unfortunately the reality is that the new canon's Luke isn't entirely the one we know and love as the GOAT-- he ****ing DIES pulling a move he already did in Dark Empire. I'm gonna miss that Luke btw. But maybe by the next film Kylo will blow through these guys (or if he had Rey by his side!)
K'Kruhk over the Other Horns

Sky Guy vs. Mika

Gnost (prep) over Lumiya-- I had this tabbed as Lumiya first, but your prep arg is spot on and also lbr it's an arg at this post-draft, pre-playoffs point in the game-- bonus points.
Wolf/Shado over The Other Legacy Guys
Talzin (prep) via forfiet
Scourge over Nat

cubby vs. Book

Ferus over A Bunch of Darths-- I'm telling you guys Ferus is a beast by the end of his narrative
Darth Nihilus/Darth Sion over Lumi/Barriss-- I think Lumi/Barriss wax them on a normal day, BUT...this is Malachor V from KotOR II. They don't get a better home field advantage, and that's huge.
Malak over Vastor-- This is a classic match-up and 100% of the time I'm going Vastor, BUT...this locale is literally perfect for Malak, who
Bane via forfeit

Wang vs. PRENN

Kenobi over Starkiller, ouch
Double forfeit
Saba over Tahiri/Ikrit/Sarro-- I had this tabbed as the trump first too (particularly with Tahiri's Yuuzhan Vong pain matching Saba's best skill of "take a bunch of pain and keep going") but again bonus points for an arg at this point and Saba really can be a tank when she needs to
AniSolo (prep) via forfeit

DE vs. Vandy

Vaylin over Vodo
Jerec/Sariss over Tsui Choi/Bultar-- Hey, Jerec knows his way around Dark Side reservoirs kind of
Zannah over Quinlan/Dark Woman-- Damn this hurts, but the power of her illusions from the locale could help her limit this to one-on-one encounters and avoid the mightiest might of the Mighty Quin
Krayt via forfeit

 

Since it would be unfair to judge Kylo Ren over his TLJ feats this late in the game, I will continue to judge him on TFA alone. Based on that, I have to vote Desann/Tavion

Ken might be right about Ferus. But one jedi against three sith unprepared is too much for most jedi. So going 3 Darths over Ferus

 

One more Minch, Wolf Sazen/ Shado Vao vs. Darth Nyriss/Darth Baras

 

Darths. I love Shado, but Wolf is only good at losing and dying.

 

Round 5

Numbers 1, 4, 6, 9

Location: Malachor (KOTOR II)

RX_Sith (3) vs. DarthIntegral (4)

1. Zekk vs. 1. Kol Skywalker TRUMPED with Ganner Rhysode
4. Sylvar Trumped with Raskta Lsu vs. 4. Jaden Korr
6. Mace Windu vs. 6. Satele Shan
9. Raskta Lsu Trumped with Sylvar (FORFEIT) vs. 9. Kam Solusar

Point Given (7) vs. ma_petite (0)

1. Vestara Khai/Gavar Khai vs. 1. Corran Horn trumped with Neeja Halcyon
4. Bastila Shan vs. 4. Neeja Halcyon trumped with Corran Horn (FORFEIT)
6. Desann/Tavion Axmis vs. 6. Kylo Ren
9. K'Kruhk vs. 9. Valin Horn/Jysella Horn

Skywalker_T-65 (4) vs. Mikaboshi (3)

1. Gnost Dural (PREP) vs, 1. Lumiya
4. Wolf Sazen/Shado Vao vs. 4. Darth Nyriss/Darth Baras
6. Celeste Morne TRUMPED with Zayne Carrick (FORFEIT) vs. 6. Mother Talzin (PREP)
9. Nat Skywalker vs. 9. Lord Scourge

cubman987 (6) vs. BookExogorth (1)

1.Darth Azard/Darth Havok TRUMPED Darth Stryfe vs. 1. Ferus Olin
4. Darth Malak vs. 4. Kar Vastor
6. Darth Nihilus TRUMPED Darth Sion vs. 6. Luminara Unduli/Bariss Offee
9. Darth Bane vs. 9. Darth Marr Trumped with Darth Maladi (FORFEIT)

Wang Chi (5) vs. PRENNTACULAR (1) 1 Double Forfeit

1. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. 1. Galen Marek
4. Qui-Gon Jinn trumped with Ki-Adi Mundi/Oppo Rancisis (FORFEIT) vs. 4. Lowbacca / Tesar TRUMPED with Octa Ramis (FORFEIT)
6. Saba Sebatyne vs. 6. Tahiri Veila / Ikrit TRUMPED with Sarro Xaj
9. Tresina Lobi trumped with Fay (FORFEIT) vs. 9. Anakin Solo PREPPED

Dark Eagle (6) vs. The Vanguard (1)

1. Vaylin vs. 1. Vodo Siosk Bass
4. Jerec/Sariss vs. 4. Tsui Choi/Bultar Swan
6. Darth Zannah vs. 6. Quinlan Vos TRUMPED An'ya Kuro
9. Darth Krayt vs. 9. An'ya Kuro TRUMPED Quinlan Vos (FORFEIT)

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Round 5

Numbers 2, 5, 7

Location: Malachor (KOTOR II)

RX_Sith (3) vs. DarthIntegral (4)

2. Juhani/Jolee Bindo vs. 2. Tott Doneeta/Cay Qel-Droma TRUMPED Nomi Sunrider/Thon (FORFEIT)
5. Githany vs. 5. Ganner Rhysode TRUMPED Kol Skywalker (FORFEIT)
7. Kyle Katarn (PREP) vs. 7. Mara Jade Skywalker (PREP)

Point Given (7) vs. ma_petite (0)

2. The Exile (PREP) vs. 2. Sharad Hett
5. Depa Billaba/Agen Kolar vs. 5. Kenth Hamner
7. Darth Vader vs. 7. Adi Gallia/Saesee Tiin

Skywalker_T-65 (4) vs. Mikaboshi (3)

2. Ben Skywalker vs. 2. Joruus C'baoth trumped w/ Lord Nyax
5. Cade Skywalker vs. 5. Darth Caedus
7. Anakin Skywalker vs. 7. Lord Nyax trumped w/ Joruus C'baoth (FORFEIT)

cubman987 (6) vs. BookExogorth (1)

2. Darth Stryfe TRUMPED Darth Azard/Darth Havok (FORFEIT) vs. 2. Brakiss
5. Darth Maul (PREP) vs. 5. Exar Kun (PREP)
7. Darth Plagueis vs. 7. Darth Sion TRUMPED Darth Nihilus (FORFEIT)

Wang Chi (5) vs. PRENNTACULAR (1) 1 Double Forfeit

2. Leia Organa Solo (PREP) vs. 2. Sarro Xaj / TRUMPED with Tahiri Veila / Ikrit (FORFEIT)
5. Arca Jeth vs. 5. Jaina Solo
7. Ahsoka Tano vs. 7. Lord Hoth / Valenthyne Farfalla

Dark Eagle (6) vs. The Vanguard (1)

2. Sarasu Taalon vs. 2. Kyp Durron (PREP)
5. Darth Traya (PREP) vs. 5. Azlyn Rae TRUMPED Marasiah Fel (FORFEIT)
7. Lord Kaan/Darth Kas'im vs. 7. Yoda

 

...darn.

Well, time to argue for Ben I guess.

 

Damn. that's quite possibly the two best preps in the entire draft (at least among those it makes sense to prep). I think Mara Jade has it, but I'll get an argument up, likely tomorrow.

 

UNBELIEVABLY epic round, just look at this:

1. RX vs. Inty comes down to Kyle Katarn (PREP) vs. 7. Mara Jade Skywalker (PREP), maybe the two greatest prep talents that exist

2. Pointy G likely to join the "7-0 Club" for an undefeated round (7-0 being what it was when it was 6-player rosters + a mandatory team match)

3. Skywalker has his 2 best Skywalkers hit a forfeit and a better Skywalker, so it comes down to his last Skywalker vs. a guy who cloned a Skywalker and one who nearly mind-controlled the best Skywalker

4. cubby vs. BOE features Maul (PREP) vs. Kun (PREP), the two guys who most pioneered the double-bladed saber

5. Wang is set to break the current tie with SecondBest to become the winning-est GM in Jedi Draft history


It's like nerd christmas, let the args flowwwww

 

Right...this match. This set probably went about the worst it could have for me. Cade would have no issues here, Anakin even less, and I might have been able to argue Anakin over Caedus.

Ben...Ben. He's the weak link here in those three, yes. We're on a dark side planet, yes. However. This is an advantage.

But Sky, it's a dark side planet! That gives the enemy a boost!

In this very, very, very specific case...I don't think it really does. Hear me out here. Joruus 'Mad Clone' C'boath is probably the absolute worst person to take to Malachor. Why? Simple. What I put in his name there... Mad Clone. Joruus is far from the most mentally stable person in the galaxy to begin with. In any other circumstances, on any other world, I would say that isn't likely to be an issue. Unless you toss him against Jorus for clone fun. He's insane but he generally has a good enough grip on it to fight well, at least.

What, then, is different about Malachor? Well, this is the world that explicitly messes with your head. Revan used Malachor to break Jedi to his side. Not Korriban. Not Dxun. Not Rakata Prime, the world so heavily steeped in the Dark Side that Force-blind Canderous can tell it is. He used Malachor. Because it is said, outright, in KOTOR II that the planet is that corruptive and mentally taxing. This is not a good thing for Joruus. He has a pretty loose grip on the thing called 'sanity' as it is. With Malachor eating at that, it gets even worse. Maybe not enough to really have an impact in most cases, still.

Now, in this case, toss in what he needs to be doing. He needs to split his attention between fighting Ben, keeping Malachor from driving him (more) insane...and trying to control Nyax on what amounts to a Dark Side nexus. Nyax may be easy for Joruus to control in most cases (I'm not entirely sure myself), but he will absolutely not be in this case. Nyax is a mindless brute, and one of the very few things that still hold any reason to him are Force nexuses. Getting stronger. This is going to make it all the more difficult for Joruus to pull his 'replace your mind with my own' trick. Add in the effects on himself and the need to fight Ben, and I'm fairly confident he can't do all three at once. Something is going to break.

That leaves Nyax. Malachor is going to give him some level of a boost, maybe, but not to FOOOORRRRCCCEEEE WEEEELLLLL levels. His main advantage here is still going to be raw power and having enough lightsabers to make Grievous feel inadequate. That isn't an advantage against this Skywalker.

Ben is far and away the most tactical of the (blood, not marriage) Skywalkers. His time in the GAG and under Jacen and with what Mara taught him make that the case. He's not an idiot. He may be going into this without any prep and having to counter Malachor himself, but this is the guy who has fought Abeloth. He's no stranger to corruptive influences. Moreover, he's a crafty fighter. He'll make full use of everything around him. Like cracking a rock into Joruus' skull when he's distracted :V

(okay, that one was mostly a joke)

The point is, Ben knows how to get the most of his environment. He's not a slouch with a saber or the Force. He's adaptable, and even if he was never told the story of Nyax, he isn't nearly stupid enough to get close and get cut into pieces. He'll find a way to beat Nyax without playing to the brute's strengths. Malachor is going to leave Joruus unable to help as much as he otherwise could, and he may actually harm things trying (and failing) to dominate Nyax here.

It's just a shame that Ben didn't get to grow to his full potential, or this would be even more clear cut.

 

I knew there was a reason I was so excited for this one.
The prep makes it.

 

I present a Musical Take on this argument:

Katarn: Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you.
Mara Jade Skylwer: No you can't
KK: Yes I can
MJS: No you can't
KK: Yes I can
MJS: No you can't, no you can't, no you can't.

KK: I learned from the best Luke, How to put up my Duke
MJS: I've had longer on that seen, plus I had Palpatine

KK: Any weaponry you can get, I can get better.
MJS: I get better weaponry than you.
KK: No you can't
MJS: Yes I can
KK: No you can't
MJS: Yes I can, yes I can, yes I can.

KK: I'm quick on the draw, when I shoot a blaster
MJS: I can shoot two at a time, and shoot them even faster
KK: I can steal Death Star Plans
MJS: And not have it retconned?
KK: of course not, but now you're breaking the Fourth wall!
MJS: I'm allowed to - I'm a Skywalker!

MJS: I was a master spy
KK: But never did I die
MJS: Hey, I was beating Caedus till he cheated
KK: And yet, still you were defeated!

KK: I can use my saber, and do lightsaber combat better than you.
MJS: No you can't
KK: Yes I can
MJS: No you can't, no you can't, no you can't.

KK: I beat Desann, that funny looking Dino
MJS: About as impressive as getting drunk with a whino
KK: Hey, it's still a win, and he had a Force Boost
MJS: If that's all you've got, your chickens are coming home to roost

KK: I was a pupil of Luke Skywalker. No one is closer to Luke than me.
MJS: LOL




No, seriously. Kyle Katarn is damn impressive, especially with Prep. But anything he can do, Mara can - and does - do better. Kyle's array of weapons and knowledge of them? Mara is right there. Kyle's spy skills? Mara has them trumped and then some. Kyle's tactical planning and knowledge of his enemy? Mara has it and then some. Kyle's best individual performance? Pales in comparison to fighting peak Jacen Solo (who was prepared, and she wasn't) to basically a stand-still. Mara only lost to Jacen because she held back due to personal concerns - something that is thrown in Draft battles. Kyle doesn't have an experience edge, an equipment edge, a training partner edge, a tactical edge, a skill with the saber edge, a high-end opponent edge - none of it. I'm not trying to downplay Katarn at all. He's the second best prep in the entire draft. He just happened to come up against the best prep in the draft, and someone who knows him incredibly well. And Mara Jade - as well as she preps anyways - preps all that much better when she knows the person. That's been clear from her Hand of the Emperor days when she was preparing for a Luke she thought she knew, carried through with her on-again off-again Lumiya issues, and into her final days. It's one hell of a battle, but the winner while taking everything she has to make it happen, is likely never really in doubt.

 

You all make the draft with arguments like this. It's why I'll happily keep the draft going. Let's keep it up.

 

That was one of the top-five most fun arguments I've typed up in any draft.

 

Well if that was only fifth most fun, what were the others?

 

I've done some really fun "theater" style arguments and judgments where I've written out my write-up of how a battle would go. I've also envoked the power of LeBron in arguments, and made other Cleveland parallels and metaphors.

I'm not saying that one was fifth, just that it's top five. It might be number one, I'm just not prepared to say so.

 

Meanwhile:

Unless the judges need more of an argument, they can go ahead and judge mine.