Games The 25th Jedi Draft - The Silver Anniversary Edition!! (Champion: Point Given!)

I'll say that Anakin has met Ulic, actually, at least in the Clone Wars game.

Doubt it matters much though.

 

Def matters, they 100% teamed up on Rhen Var. But are you conceding the match or have more to say? I wanna see playoff args damnit!

 

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. So I retract that part, obviously.

 

I mean I could try to argue. I just dunno if it makes any difference at this point with one judge already decided.

 

It definitely still matters.

I've seen matches won by arguments that happened after one judge decided before.

Evil.

 

@Skywalker_T-65



I mean, that's the whole point of the game!

 

Well...

First, I should say there is a definite method to my madness when it came to cohesion. Ben is the only real outlier who doesn't know anyone, assuming that Nat doesn't know his (probable) grandfather. Which is admittedly an assumption that we can't say either way on. Otherwise everyone has some sort of connection here. Anakin and Ulic, Aryn/Ven/Gnost, Wolf/Shado/Nat/Cade/Celeste (and through Celeste, Zayne). Moreover, Ben being the outlier isn't as bad as it could otherwise be because Ben Skywalker is probably the best Skywalker at working with people he doesn't know. He is Mara's son, in more ways than just his hair. The kid knows how to work with people and since this is a team bout, prep comes into play.

I'd say in terms of prep, I've got a bit of an edge. Anakin and Obi-Wan are pretty much a wash (even in the old EU, people in-universe couldn't decide who was the better General in the Clone Wars...they tended to specialize in different ways, but that didn't mean either was distinctly better than the other). There are Jedi Generals galore on the other squad, but they're not ones famous for big strategy. The only case for Kit that comes to mind is Mon Calamari in the original Clone Wars cartoon, Oppo died pretty early, Ki-Adi and Aayla have their battles but they aren't at Anakin or Obi-Wan's level...Leia isn't General Organa here. Saba and Ashoka are more 'in the dirt' fighters, IMO. Though the latter does have Rebels.

I, meanwhile, have Ulic- who is the one who lead Kun's war and outmatched both the Republic and Mandos doing it -, Ben who is Mara-lite, Wolf and Shado who are very much in a leadership role in the post-purge NJO, Gnost who is both a genius prepper and quite capable of using his knowledge base to help (he'll certainly know about Battle Meditation, for instance--more on that later) and Cade+Nat who have at least as much tactical skill as Saba I would argue, possibly her and Ashoka. This does depend on how you rate their respective experiences, of course. Ulic is the big thing by far, since I'd argue he's even better fit to be a leader than Anakin (though those two probably run the team together, so it's kind of a wash there too).

Either way, the big thing with my team's prep edge (at least in some individuals) comes down to the BM thing. Battle Meditation is a big game changer, for sure. The issue with it, though, is that you're taking one fighter out and whoever you want defending them as well. You can't use BM properly while fighting. And if the one using it does get taken out, we have oodles of evidence that this really screws with whoever was relying on it. Like having an eye put out.

Why is this important here? While I'll freely admit that BM boosts Ashoka and Obi-Wan to being able to hand Anakin his behind, the rest of the matchup isn't quite so clear cut. I personally feel that Anakin is so close to Kenobi that it's almost impossible to pick one over the other. The battle on Mustafar is as close to peak Anakin as you get (yes, he's Vader there, but it's not anything Anakin couldn't do). The thing with that one...Anakin was exhausted. He was getting no sleep for weeks, he had lead an assault on the Jedi Temple, he had slaughtered his way through the Seppie leadership...all with little time to rest. On top of that, Vader was mentally all sorts of messed up and not properly focused and he still pushed Obi-Wan until the High Ground meme. Properly rested and in a proper mental state, I feel that it's a toss up which wins. Ashoka pushes it further, but you can bet Anakin is at least going to be able to keep her and Obi-Wan occupied for a bit.

Ulic is better than Saba, which frees up Cade to deal with Leia, which frees up Ben to deal with Kit/Aayla (I expect those two to form up, sorry Ki-Adi), which frees up Aryn/Ven to deal with Arca and...well, you get the point. Anakin keeping both Obi-Wan and Ashoka occupied starts a domino effect down the line. You can bet that Anakin/Ulic/Ben would figure this out in the pre-game planning session and run with it.

My backfield is better. Celeste and Zayne can easily deal with Tresina and Fay. I'd take Nat over Qui-Gon, though it's close, and Gnost over Ki-Adi. If Anakin can keep Obi-Wan and Ashoka busy long enough, Oppo is going to be in trouble. I suspect that the other team (based on their personalities and place in the team) is liable to have Ki-Adi and Qui-Gon guarding Oppo, while the rest tries to take my guys down. BM gives a boost that somewhat balances out the backfield edge and Anakin-domino-effect.

But does it give enough of a boost for long enough to keep my mid-tier from getting to Oppo? That I'm more iffy on. And I think there's enough of a planning and mid/backfield edge to get to Oppo. He's going to be priority target number one, and anyone not occupied is going to go straight for him.

And if the BM falls, then the enemy team is going to fall apart. Losing the BM will, even if my guys are being pushed, throw them out of sorts. Enough to allow for a couple cheap shots, and if a team starts bleeding...it gets harder and harder to stop the bleeding. I think mine can take advantage of that.

 

Just a note that I'm still thinking. My hard drive died on my computer so having to resort to my iPad while it gets repaired. I should have a judgment tomorrow night at the latest.

 

Lot to unpack there. I'll see about responding early tomorrow afternoon.

 

So I only have time to get to part of my rebuttal right now. I can finish when I get home late tonight, but just in case the judges are set and want to move on, I'll get to what I feel is the more important part right now. This wasn't going to be what I led off with originally (was going to build up to it), but the stuff I'm skipping for now is more fluff.

Here's my main issue with the scenario you laid out:

The entire thing, the entire scenario you laid out, seems (please correct me if I'm wrong) to rely 100% on the fact that both Kenobi and Ahsoka will be fighting Anakin and Anakin alone. If they're both occupied by Anakin, then this person could do this and that person could do that which eventually lead to this and so on and so on. So my question is pretty simple. Why are both Kenobi and Ahsoka fighting Anakin again?

Look, I get that from a purely dramatic point of view, it's something we'd all love to see. I agree with Inty's remark that it's fun. But that doesn't necessarily mean that's how it's going to play out in the actual match. It'd be a pretty silly strategic blunder on my team's part, anyways. One they're not likely to make simply so they can give us, the audience, what we'd like to see.

Anyways, even if they did exactly that, I'm unconvinced that Anakin is really able to hold them off for very long at all. Not when they're boosted by BM. With the BM in effect, Kenobi already has a solid enough edge on Anakin. Adding a BM-boosted Ahsoka to that fight makes it beyond clear. Extremely decisive. I won't say a "slice" simply out of respect for The Chosen One, but....

So that aside, you've given us a possible scenario to consider, so allow me to paint a picture of my own. And keep in mind that I'm not saying that it's a given that the match will go down this way, either, but it's possibility. And watch how with just a simple change of who fights whom, the scenario is remarkably different.

Ahsoka fights Anakin alone. You don't buy my suggestion that Ahsoka could possibly defeat Anakin with the aid of BM? Fine. I'm on the fence about it myself. Hence the big "MIGHT". What I'm less on the fence about is her being able to occupy his attention for a long, long, long time. All by her lonesome. I'm personally 100% convinced of that.

Arca fights Ulic alone. Pretty much the same deal. Ulic is better than Arca under normal circumstance. No doubt. But a BM-boosted Arca could at the very least hold down his former apprentice for a long, long, long time.

I personally think Saba is better than Cade without BM. It's an amazing fight, but I would give the nod to Saba. Maybe some would disagree, and that's fine. I think a BM-boosted Saba hands Cade his butt, but even if you very strongly disagree with that, surely at the very least, you'd have to concede that BM-boosted Saba vs. Cade would last a long, long, long time. I don't think it would, but if you're much higher on Cade, you'd go with that scenario.

Okay, so while those three are all occupied, that frees up Kenobi to absolutely run roughshod over the rest of your team. There's no one left who can even come close to being able to even hold out for short time against BM-boosted Kenobi (let alone the rest of my team, some of whom you really glossed over in your argument). It's a slaughter down at the bottom. Ben? No. Shado/Wolf? No. Nat? Nope. All of them together? Nope.

Damn. I really have to go. I'm not done, though. Lots more to say.

 

(Oh I know it's not horribly likely, but at this point, I have to argue best case scenario. Frankly, I don't expect to win anyway)

 

Peak Anakin Skywalker is a monster who outduels one of the greatest blademasters ever in Dooku in a matter of seconds when he decides to unleash himself.

If Ahsoka gets stuck vs. Anakin here it's like Kyrie switching onto LeBron-- an exploitable mistake the team should've avoided. Especially since Tim Duncan/Obi-Wan Kenobi is elsewhere on the court.

(Somewhere Horax is smiling that a PT Jedi just got a basketball analogy)

 

Wow, I love reading these arguments. I'm waiting on the judges' decisions with baited breath.

 

I'm going to make this fairly quick due to my lack of a proper computer. So my apologies for that in advance. I wish I could type a more thorough judgment.

Obi-Wan Kenobi- Peak level is Ben on Tatooine dueling Maul
Ahsoka Tano- Peak level is dueling Vader on Malachor
Saba Sebatyne- Peak level is dueling Kenth in the hanger
Leia Organa-Solo-Peak level is Crucible
Kit Fisto/Oppo Rancisis- Peak for Kit is likely Mon Cal. For Oppo its Salecumai before Sora literally backstabs him
Arca Jeth-
Ki-Adi Mundi/Aayla Secura- Ki-Adi would be Geonosis II or Mygeeto. For Aayla its her duel with Aurra Sing
Qui-Gon Jinn- Pre-TPM really is Qui-Gon's peak. He's more older and winded by the time he fights Maul
Tresina Lobi-Doesn't really have an established peak. Just a death
Fay- Same

@Skywalker_T-65

1. Anakin Skywalker- Peak for Anakin is defeating Dooku but not killing him.
2. Ulic Qel-Droma- Pre-losing his abilities
3. Cade Skywalker- Defeating Krayt would be Cade's peak
4. Ben Skywalker- Fighting the sith and Abeloth was as far as Ben got.
5. Aryn Leneer/Ven Zallow- Similar with Aryn. We've only just started to see her peak level and Ven's was his loss against Malgus
6. Wolf Sazen/Shado Vao-Wolf's would be right before his second death. Shado would be towards the end of Legacy
7. Nat Skywalker-Nat's is a tough one but I would place it before his death I guess
8. Gnost Dural
9. Celeste Morne-Hard with her since the Talisman made her more powerful but she pretty much died soon after it was removed
10. Zayne Carrick- Zayne's easily the end of the series.

So why all of that determination on peaks you may ask? Because when I judge a team, I judge what they can do at their best. Anakin at his peak is a master strategist. Ben can assist in this with his GAG training. Ulic is no slouch. Cade is the weak link. He's more emotion and no planning. Anakin's plans however are often risky and unpredictable.

I bring that up because he is going against the two people who knew him best in Obi-Wan and Ahsoka. And while Anakin might figure out what Obi-Wan might do, the aid of Oppo Rancisis for battle mediation allows for Obi-Wan's team to be more flexible as they get going- especially with Leia on the team. Also Leia is still General Leia-just not TFA or TLJ General Leia. But let us not forget the many novels where she led the military and resistance forces- particularly in New Jedi Order. Aside from Obi-Wan, you really may not find a better strategist then Leia. And that doesn't discount how powerful she is at the end of Crucible either. It's that power in fact that makes me feel as though Wang's top 4 just barely outclass Sywalker's top 4- especially when one considers the Master/Apprentice bonds of Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon and Saba/Leia.

The weakest members of Wang's team are definitely Fay and Tresina. And in comparison, I would say Skywalker's bottom are superior. So then, if the top half is almost equal and Skywalker has an advantage in the bottom, I have to look at how the middle stacks up. And that's where the prequel Jedi make a difference. The Battle Meditation makes a difference. The cohesion with Obi-Wan and Ahsoka make a difference. Ghost is a nice addition for Skywalker as are the other TOR Jedi, but its just not enough here.

The last thing I have to note is that Skywalker's team will be more guided by emotion than Wang's more emotionless team. This is particularly a problem when it comes to the top three of Anakin, Ulic and Cade. Even Ben to a far lesser degree got emotional. In comparison, peak Ahsoka controlled her emotions and Obi-Wan is the consummate professional as are the other Jedi generals around him. Saba and Leia are also solid. This really means that they won't get rattled. Skywalker's team definitely has the potential to be rattled.

There are other reasons I am voting for Wang's team, but this darn iPad is not cooperating. This is a close battle, but Wang's cohesion, strong top 4, and solid middle picks are why I vote for his team,

 

Playoffs Round 1

Final Results

Location: Shadowlands, Kashyyyk

Numbers 2, 3, 6, 10

@DarthIntegral (5) vs. @The Vanguard (4) 1 Double Forfeit

2. Luke Skywalker vs. 2. Kerra Holt
3. Jaden Korr vs. 3. Yoda
6. Tott Donetta/Cay Qel-Droma TRUMPED W/ Nomi Sunrider/Thon (FORFEIT) vs. 6. Quinlan Vos TRUMPED An'ya Kuro (FORFEIT)
10. Satele Shan vs. 10. Rahm Kota

@DarkEagle (6) vs. @cubman987 (4)

2. Sarasu Taalon trumped w/ Viun Gaalan (FORFEIT) vs. 2. Darth Malak
3. Darth Traya (prep) vs. 3. Exar Kun (PREP)
6. Vaylin vs. 6. Darth Nihilus TRUMPED Darth Sion (FORFEIT)
10. Sora Bulq vs. 10. Darth Stryfe TRUMPED Darth Azard/Darth Havok (FORFEIT)

@Wang Chi (5) vs. @Skywalker_T-65 (5) Wang Chi wins in Team Battle

2. Kit Fisto/Aayla Secura trumped with Ki-Adi Mundi/Oppo Rancisis (FORFEIT) vs. 2. Ben Skywalker
3. Fay vs. 3. Aryn Leneer/Ven Zallow
6. Qui-Gon Jinn trumped with Arca Jeth (FORFEIT) vs. 6. Anakin Skywalker
10. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. 10. Zayne Carrick TRUMPED with Celeste Morne (FORFEIT)

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Playoffs Round 2

Location: Caves under the Silent Desert, Tython INFO

Match 1 vs. 4
@Point Given vs. @Wang Chi

Match 2 vs. 3
@DarkEagle vs. @DarthIntegral

Numbers please.
_________________________________________________
@cubman987 @Skywalker_T-65 @The Vanguard

Thanks again for playing. As always, the players make the game.

 

#s in.
"Who's getting WILD tonight??" - R. Gronkowski

 

Should we tell him?

 

I think Furio should post fake matches for him every round. Like, call out Jabba the Hutt and Dark Helmet, and Jean val Jean, and Elizabeth Bennet and see how he argues.

 

But that's how you get people claiming random national championships

 

#s in DarkEagle - good luck, and may Luke draw Sidious.

 

How about Luke v forfeit?

 

Sids vs Shigar?

 

Jerec vs your whole team?