Games The 25th SWC/EUC Starfighter Draft: Old Enough to Have Death Sticks (Congrats ma_petite!)

Syal v Lulo + Snap

First, I will freely admit that I haven't followed much of the NuEU, leaving me relying on wookieepedia summaries which may contain inaccuracies.

Second, those summaries don't sell me on the idea of Snap being a particularly outstanding pilot- it seems he's more of a recon and airshow pilot? (Please let me know if I'm misreading that) Lulo, on the other hand, seems quite capable; a long career with some good battles (Endor).

However, I'll question the quality of the opposition they faced. In the NuCanon, the Empire was intended to and helped along into losing most, if not all, of the critical engagements post-Endor. By design. Which casts some doubt on how good/motivated the Imperial pilots they faced off against were- nothing I've seen indicates they faced any sort of elite squadrons or pilots. Again, that's me going off some summaries, so it very well may be wrong.

Syal has been trained to fly Starfighters from a young age- trained by some of the all-time best (Wedge and Tycho).

Let's not forget the time she hung with and impressed Han Solo (who's not all that easily impressed):

I think she's more than capable of giving these guys a run for their money.

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Ooryl v Saba

Major props to one @s65horsey for her contributions

For Ooryl v Kyp

Now, I disagree with some aspects of the argument (I have previously conceded Kyp > Ooryl, but I feel Kyp > Ooryl > Saba), but the gist is good: Ooryl has a ton of flight experience (against the forces of Isard, Thrawn, Zsinj, Palpatine Reborn) and has previously shown that he's difficult for Force-sensitive pilots to get a read on, limiting the advantage they have over him. I'll toss in Ooryl's service during the Zsinj hunt where Rogue/Wraith Squadron "executed mission after mission, one after another, sometimes two in a single day" (Solo Command), and included crazy battles at Levian2 (5 NewRep squadrons against 22 Imperial ones) and Selaggis (battles in which pilots like Tycho, Hobbie, Asyr are downed).

Saba has good experience, but maybe not as much. She has most of the YV war (some uncertainty about the early part and some missed due to hunting Sekot) and not much credible experience after that. Against a career pilot like Ooryl who has a ton of experience and shown capable of flying well against Jedi, I'm not sure if she can win.

 

*Two day extension. I'm gonna get him too drunk watching basketball tomorrow to judge.

 

Pash Cracken

One of my favorite things about him is the description that he is a career pilot. I am obsessed with career pilots for drafts like these. Experience is huge and being able to fly these ships and stay alive for multiple Star Wars eras alludes to just how good of a pilot Pash is.

According to the Databank, Pash as a young pilot he earned the title of Wing commander and led an entire wing of 72 starfighters to defect. The leadership and cunning required to do something like that is non-existent anywhere else in the Star Wars universe. We know that Pash is cunning and intelligent because he is the son of Airen Cracken who orchestrated so much of the Rebel Alliance during the early years. While at the Imperial Academy he graduated in the top 1% of his class and was said to have surpassed his instructors according to the book X-wing Wedge's Gamble.

Pash continued to strive to be better. He didn't just stay complacent as the legend his pilots made him out to be, but instead he moved on to join Rogue Squadron and study under one of the best pilots, Wedge Antilles. He is well skilled in fighter pilot tactics as well as large battle tactics (eventually commanding several large ships during the Bacta War and engagements with Grand Admiral Thrawn all the way up through the Vong war.)

He is a proficient flyer in TIEs, X-wings and A-wings. I adore Pash. The X-wing books really went over a lot of pilot and character development which was always so fun to read. Pash was one of the pilots that had character development, but he was always written as being so good in the cockpit from the beginning. That was something different from some of the other Rogues.

In the last 12 drafts Pash was chosen before Turr 9 times. I stopped going back because the conversations were similar in the drafting threads that Jello was insistent that Phennir was better, but everyone always thought Pash was because he got picked first. And it was never like right before, but there were multiple pilots between the two.

Also according to the 100 Greatest Things About Star Wars, Pash > Phennir

I wish I had more time like I did back when I was in school, that Ooryl argument is amazing. I need to reread my X-wing books and take notes again like I used to.

 

Agreed on all except Pash vs. Turr... Just can't see Pash taking him down in the end. Don't get me wrong, this battle could take hours.

Evil.

 

Pash, because he married David Beckham and because Jello is always wrong

 

Tycho has been super clutch lately

I'll get something up for Varth v Jace

 

Save it for a good teams argument. I agree with pointy g.

 

It'll be Wednesday or Thursday for me

 

He's lying, I said the Obi-Wan team should win in a landslide.

 

Fixed that for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Team Battle:
Takes One to Rogue One vs Mighty Wings Part Deux!

Going to have to strongly disagree on the amount of individual advantages you have (I know the crux of your arg is about how well your squad will function as a team, and I'll get to that)

Tycho = Jaina
Maybe a little controversial, but, imo, Jaina-Tycho is the closest matchup you can get between first-rounders

At this point, Tycho and Corran have been squadmates for quite a while, flying numerous missions together, and Corran has been training with the Force. And still can't anticipate him while Tycho still runs him through the wringer.

Tiin > Corran
Reread my stuff on Tiin from the previous page- there's some good stuff there. Of note:

Which was written around the end of NJO, so guys like Corran and Kyp have had their piloting skills well established.... and they're not close enough to challenge Tiin. Some of our judges have previously voted Tiin over the likes of Han Solo, Gavin Darklighter, and Jag Fel....

Ooryl < Saba
Established

Adi > Tesar

Syal > Lowie
Kell > Bror (significant experience advantage to Kell)
Varth > Snap
Still unimpressed with Snap; on page 22, Snap lost to Garven Dreis.... Previous args for Varth can be reread here
Shara < Lulo
Shara's pretty good, but I'll admit Lulo has her beat probably. Still, she's a great pilot. A bunch of missions against the Imps, Endor, and quite distinguished and well regarded by her fellow pilots.

Experience
Tycho has a ton, Ooryl has a ton, Kell has a ton. Syal and Varth have been flying since childhood. Tiin was "introduced to flying during his youngest years" and trains "diligently" for years to be the best in the OJO. Adi and Tiin both flew in the Stark Hyperspace War (44BBY) and were highly regarded for their flying capabilities, and are still considered two of the best Jedi pilots some 25 years later during the Clone Wars.

Force
Edge Heels

Cohesion
The big point Heels has going for his squadron is their cohesion, which I agree is pretty good. However, I'm not sure it'll be enough to save them. The main focus is the Jedi Meld capability, but that can be not as advantageous against other Jedi or top-tier pilots (Caedus demonstrates this in Fury for example).

Two High Jedi Council members that are long regarded as top-notch and include one of the best Jedi pilots of all time perhaps? Tiin also has his telepathy which he has shown gives him an advantage over other Jedi , and the meld should give him a nice amount of material to work with.

Some of Heel's starfigher cohesion is also based on assumption rather than example; Jaina-Corran-Saba don't have that much on-screen flying together.

My squad's cohesion is also not so bad itself (though not quite as good as Heels'): Tycho and Ooryl have flown together for ages, Kell has good experience with them both (Zsinj hunt), Tycho was Syal's flight instructor for a while. Varth's a Rogue through and through and will follow Tycho. Tiin and Adi have flown and trained together. Tycho and the Rogues have great respect for Jedi and won't have problems with them. Shara is practically Tycho 2.0, so they get a bonus for being pretty much the same person


All-in-all, Heel's has a pretty good team with some great cohesion, Force, skill, and experience. But, I think my team edges him out in talent and experience and I don't think his advantages in Force+cohesion are enough to secure his pilots the win.

 

Opens boards, sees notifications
sees "PointGiven posted in 25th SFD"
"Yay! He voted!"
"Wait. Maybe he voted for Heels"
"Uh-oh- can I still win if he did vote for Heels?"
"Please have voted for me"
Opens thread.....