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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Games The 25th SWC/EUC Starfighter Draft: Old Enough to Have Death Sticks (Congrats ma_petite!)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Point Given , Feb 15, 2017.

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  1. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Sorry this couldn't be longer, I certainly thought on this a lot, but if I had to type all that up it'd take til tomorrow, so here's my summary.

    Here's how I think the individuals shake up on paper, without context. >= means that it's a slight edge, multiple = signs means even slighter

    Jaina >==== Tycho
    Corran =< Saesee
    Saba >= Ooryl (already judged)
    Tesar =< Adi
    Lowbacca < Syal
    Bror >= Kell
    Snap < Alinn
    L'ulo =< Shara

    Cohesion

    Heels has a ****load of cohesion. Though DarkEagle has two very good pairs in the Jedi and the pre Vong Rogues, heels's top 5 are very familiar with each other. Even the slightly odd man out in Corran has still flown with Jaina and Bror. That being said, I certainly buy the argument that Saesee and Adi can disrupt and/or counter the mind meld, given their own experience, skills and having flown together in the past...but even without the mind meld, heels still has a significant advantage. And in terms of raw force power, Jaina and Saba bring more to the table than Tiin and Gallia.

    Experience

    DarkEagle has a bit more given Tycho and Kell's lifer statuses, but Jaina and Corran have a good amount as well, and they all went through the ringer in the Vong war so it's not a huge advantage

    So we have a weird thing where I think DE has better individual matchups, but heels has a better team. In the thick of battle, where cohesion and experience matter? That's when I look again at the Tesar and Lowie matchups and think they could go the other way.

    So, at the very end, I'm going with Mighty Wings Part Deux!
     
  2. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Pretty much what he said

    Great argument, though.
     
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  3. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Good match, DarkEagle.

    alright sey. lets rock and roll

    [​IMG]

    and by rock and roll i mean lets win with corran horn
     
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  4. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Winner gets Corran?
     
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  5. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    And now we have, the Championship! Sey is going for her 3rd title and back to back championships. Heels is going for his first.



    Championship Round


    #1 Seed. Mighty Wings! Part Deux! vs #1 Seed. Traitors and Double Agents: what team are we playing for?.





    heels1785
    ma_petite
     
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  6. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Excellent final, good luck to both.


    Sent from Parts Unknown
     
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  7. ma_petite

    ma_petite Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2006
    I just want Corran Horn :(


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Going for my first title, in any draft, in 14 years. I'm the board equivalent of the Buffalo Bills.

    That being said, sey's team appears to be brutally difficult. Good luck.
     
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  9. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Going to do the numbers two at a time for the championship. First up are #5 and #1!


    Championship Round


    #1 Seed. Mighty Wings! Part Deux! vs #1 Seed. Traitors and Double Agents: what team are we playing for?.


    #5. Snap Wexley TRUMPED with L'ulo vs Mara Jade Skywalker
    #1. Lowbacca TRUMPED with Tesar Sebatyne vs Lumiya TRUMPED with Alema Rar



    DarthIntegral
    Evil Incarnate
     
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  10. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Interesting on the first one. But I don't know that there's enough to sway me. agreed.
     
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  11. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Next up are #6 and #8!


    Championship Round


    #1 Seed. Mighty Wings! Part Deux! vs #1 Seed. Traitors and Double Agents: what team are we playing for?.


    #6. Tesar Sebatyne TRUMPED with Lowbacca (FORFEIT) vs Inyri Forge
    #8. Bror Jace vs Soontir Fel



    DarthIntegral
    Evil Incarnate
     
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  12. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Yup.
     
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  13. ma_petite

    ma_petite Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2006
    If Pash hits Corran I might die


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  14. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Next up are #4 and #3!


    Championship Round


    #1 Seed. Mighty Wings! Part Deux! (1) vs #1 Seed. Traitors and Double Agents: what team are we playing for? (3)


    #4. L'ulo TRUMPED with Snap Wexley (FORFEIT) vs Rookie One
    #3. Corran Horn vs Asajj Ventress



    DarthIntegral
    Evil Incarnate
     
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  15. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Sure hope there are some worth arguing in there, all somewhat lopsided so far.
     
  16. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    another easy one, agreed with pointy g
     
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  17. ma_petite

    ma_petite Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2006
    *big sigh of relief*


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. DarkEagle

    DarkEagle Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2009
    50-50 teams or horsey wins outright [face_nail_biting]
    I probably would have taken a shot at the Lowie/Tesar v Lumiya/Alema match, but yeah, fairly straightforward so far
     
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  19. KenKenobi

    KenKenobi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Is this best 2 of 3 or just one go?

    Also heels Inty is a judge and you went with Buffalo over Cleveland for reference of trying to end title droughts?!
     
  20. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    I was trying not to offend anyone! :p
     
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  21. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    And we end with #7 and #2!


    Championship Round


    #1 Seed. Mighty Wings! Part Deux! (2) vs #1 Seed. Traitors and Double Agents: what team are we playing for? (4)


    #7. Saba Sebatyne vs Pash Cracken - ARGUMENTS heels1785, ma_petite
    #2. Jaina Solo vs Alema Rar TRUMPED with Lumiya (FORFEIT)



    DarthIntegral
    Evil Incarnate
     
  22. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Vote Saba, it's the prudent choice.
     
  23. ma_petite

    ma_petite Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2006
    I will argue for sure. I am however currently coaching at a pony club rally so I can't tomorrow, but I can get an argument up on Friday.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    I'll try to have something up by tomorrow, as well.
     
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  25. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    They changed the schedule on me again so I thought I'd have time Friday morning and now I don't. So I snuck in some research this evening.

    This really isn't even a close match-up. In every single draft, Pash is chosen before Saba and usually an entire round before her. At least 7 pilots, but quite frequently more. PG himself even chose Pash over Saba in the 18th SFD.

    My argument for Pash over Phennir talked about his long piloting career and ability to out think his opponents and invent new maneuvers. The same stands in this match up. The only thing Saba has over Pash is the force and I just don't think she's a good enough natural pilot to have the force augmenting her abilities so much as to take out a talented pilot like Pash.
     
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  26. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    I would say that draft position isn't necessarily a surefire indicator of skill. It also does not have much, if any, bearing on specific matchups. Jacen Solo, taken 30-40 picks after Jaina, would have a better chance against her than, say, Hobbie, who is usually taken 10-15 picks after her.

    This one's a lot like the matchup with Ooryl, I believe, although Pash is a bit of a tougher matchup. Pash has flown more missions than Saba, and surely has quality feats - as part of a group. Where I believe Saba has the advantage is in the format of a one-on-one dogfight, where use of the force absolutely augments her abilities in the cockpit - Pash has no wingmates. Saba is an enormously powerful force user - this is a basic respect thread which shows numerous displayed abilities that absolutely come into play in this context.

    I cannot think of an instance in which Pash encountered a force user in a one-on-one dogfight, so there isn't much to suggest that he would even understand what he's up against. Saba hasn't flown as many missions, but she has flown a lot, and with the very best - I think the format, in which her use of the force can narrow any skill gap and lend insight into Pash's tendencies, give her the advantage.
     
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