Senate The 2nd Term of the Obama Administration: Facts, Opinions, and Discussions

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    God help me, I know this is gonna sound like I am a citizen of Glennbeckistan, but I say this unbiasedly. Bush was justifiably crucified by celebrities, the press, the citizenry, and Kanye West for taking 10 days to move his dragging behind to do anything for the people affected by Katrina. The northeastern seaboard of the country is still waiting for Sandy relief and it has ceased even being a relevant by-line. I know the President is busy, but Kanye should be hatin' on him by now. Or Jay-Z, since Sandy directly affected his Empire State of mind.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jan 7, 2013
  2. Ghost Chosen One

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    I agree but don't see how he can refuse to negotiate. He doesn't have nearly the same amount of leverage on this. I think we should expect some reasonable spending cuts, tax reform, and entitlement reform. He'll only mint a coin or use the constitutional option if they GOP goes overboard in whatever they demand.

    And yeah, especially funny now that Ryan has voted to raise rates.

    Obama and the federal government were acting in response to Sandy before it even made landfall, and were there when Sandy hit, and were there in the aftermath. It's Congress that waited a couple months to pass aid. But Obama was responding with all he could long before the aid bill ever passed through Congress. Remember Obama in New Jersey? I think you have some of your facts mixed up.
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  3. Juliet316 Chosen One

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    [quote="Summer Dreamer, post: 50318279, member: 982734]It's Congress that waited a couple months to pass aid. But Obama was responding with all he could long before the aid bill ever passed through Congress.[/quote]

    And only passed a small aide package and is still waiting another week and a half to pass a bigger package, all the way beating on the usual themes like "We'll let the Government go into shutdown" and "Repeal Obamacare!" to spite everybody.
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    I remember him hugging Chris Christie and how that hug did not rebuild anything.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jan 7, 2013
  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Well that probably speaks more to China's silly and counter-productive chest-thumping than to anything we did ourselves.[/quote]

    This. When your "defense plan" involves a maritime blockade of anything that isn't India you're not going to be exactly winning friends.
  6. Ghost Chosen One

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    The Obama administration did a lot more than have the President visit.

    Remember when everyone was praising the administration for how well they responded to Hurricane Sandy, around Election Day?

    Also, the executive branch is very limited in what it can do on its own with disasters. It can't rebuild anything without the money, and it's Congress that gives them the money.
  7. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Yes, I remember when they politicized Obama's verbal response to the hurricane during the election and then how there are nothing but excuses which nobody would have been gracious enough to afford to his predecessor when both failed to actually respond well. I understand that you cannot help yourself but to fawn over Obama, but this is not an idictment of Obama as much as an indictment of how people glorify him when our reaction is vastly different than how we refused to show Bush any quarter in his failures.
  8. Juliet316 Chosen One

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    It's not 'fawning' over Obama, if Congress won't even put aide packages up for a vote (which is precisely what they wouldn't do last week after the fiscal cliff. Bohner had to pretty much be shamed into coming up with the 9 billion dollar package and letting it go to a vote)
  9. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    So... Bush had all the ability and did nothing while the current president has his hands tied by a policy that didn't affect his predecessor, somehow. Gotcha.
  10. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    i bet it was really soft and cushy tho
  11. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    From now on, when I have a bad day, I want to be held in the cuddly embrace of Chris Christie. It's worth crossing the bridge to experience such comfort.
  12. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    W had a Republican House and a Republican Senate in 2005.
    Last edited by KnightWriter, Jan 7, 2013
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  13. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Yes, I am aware. Which is why my question was solely about why Bush's monumental 10 day delay was the biggest fail in modern Presidency, while Obama saying some wonderful, polyana soundbytes weeks (months) ago during the election - and then settling for a non-response to his 'attempts' - is met with praise and justifications. I fully understand the vast difference between each President and their respective roadblocks. It's the "Oh, that wonderful man tried his best. Too bad, Northeastern seaboard!" while we move on to other news with no outcry because, you know... one was W and the other is Obama...
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jan 7, 2013
  14. Ghost Chosen One

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    You're still not posting any facts.

    Bush, the state government of Louisiana, and the local government of New Orleans all failed horribly.


    When a major hurricane hits, 2 things need to happen
    * FEMA responds effectively for immediate relief, and to coordinate with state/local governments to help prevent and immediately respond to immediate dangers
    * Congress responds by funding reconstruction


    KATRINA... Bush failed with the first (heck of a job, Brownie), but at least Congress did pass something for reconstruction I believe.

    SANDY... Obama excelled with the first (even Christie was praising him), but Congress put off funding a bill for reconstruction until last week. And that's still only for the temporary reconstruction, they still haven't voted to fund an infrastructure upgrade that would leave the East Coast better prepared to withstand the next major storm.


    See above.



    Also, remember this??

    Bush’s FEMA Director During Katrina Criticizes Obama For Responding To Sandy Too Quickly


    And what's one of the things Obama did that made Christie so happy?


    Wait, there's more!


    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Jan 7, 2013
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  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Forgetting Iraq?
  16. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    u 4got polend
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Jan 7, 2013
  17. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Oh, you poor thing... you think I care... [face_tee_hee]

    I fully admit that the fault of what went wrong in this discussion lies with me. I knew full well the odds of recieving an unpartisan, unbiased response to my question in a thread started/hosted by the head of our local chapter of the Obama Fanclub were never going to be favorable. You cannot say I didn't concede, several times, that I fully understood the jurisprudence/policy bindings involved - and was solely interested in the measurements of public outcry over similarly (poorly) handled crises being different based on the endless grace extended to our current president by his fanbase versus the histrionic venom justifiably spewed at his predecessor. Sandy was election season political kindling and then it was a non-issue. And the only reason that the previous chorus is not hurling vitriol at the White House over this situation is that it would reflect poorly on Barackstar, even if the actual failure is the fruit of our current circus ringmasters on Capital Hill. I like Obama. I voted for him once. Sorry for disrupting your little bath house, here. Your appreciation thread will be free of further socialist frustration. Unless the other Mike posts in here. You didn't shoo me away. If I still bothered to discuss our current figurehead with you even after you seriously wanted me to believe he doesn't have the economic skills of a blind, armless kid with an abacus, you have to know I am down for a good row on politics, anytime. [face_flag]
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jan 7, 2013
  18. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Reminder to make sure posts are contributing to the discussion.
  19. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
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    o_O

    If you don't care, then why were you asking the question? And in a Senate thread? You can drop the condescending attitude, too.

    I did you give you a nonpartisan, unbiased response. I posted facts. Which facts did you post?

    I'm by no means the head of the "Obama fanclub"... I agree with the President on many things because we seem share the same positions and views on many things. I think his negotiation tactics can suck sometimes (though he's gotten better). I wish he had done more on Infrastructure in 2009. I wish he was a lot better on the Civil Liberties issues, and was more libertarian on the social issues. I wish he was doing more to restructure and streamline the government.

    And this thread isn't anything about being part of an "Obama fanclub," it's about commenting on and analyzing his presidency, on predicting and analyzing their goals and their record. Divergent views are welcome. It was fine to ask the question you asked, about Hurricane Sandy. But, now, it seems like you weren't really trying to have a discussion or learn more. This is not an appreciation thread, or a complaint thread. It's a discussion thread.

    And no, you didn't make a distinction clear, that's why I kept responding to you. I gave you the facts... the Obama administration responded quickly and effectively. The Bush administration didn't, Yet you wonder why there was public outcry over Bush but not over Obama? The facts I posted explain why.

    Again, you blame Obama over this situation. Hello? What did the administration do wrong? The reason why people aren't attacking Obama over that is because what you're complaining about is Congress's job. You say you get it, but you're not acting like you do. With Katrina, I believe that Congress did in fact act and not play politics with the reconstruction aid, and it was the Bush administration that messed up with the disaster preparation and immediate aftermath. That's why. The American people aren't that stupid.

    You did not interrupt anything, I welcome more posts like your initial question. But it's posts like this one that don't really belong here. Or did you expect you could just drop off a comment, and not think it would be responded to? If you did, well, that's not what the Senate is for.

    And I have no idea what the end of that little rant is supposed to be about. If you respond to this, keep it constructive, ok?



    ...




    Anyways... what does everyone think about the nominations of...

    *John Kerry for Secretary of State (to replace Hillary Clinton)

    *Chuck Hagel for Secretary of Defense (to replace Leon Panetta)

    *John Brennan for CIA Director (to replace the acting director, after Petraeus left)

    [IMG][IMG][IMG]


    It's interesting that we're getting two former Vietnam War veterans and who both became major Iraq War critics, who are both very cautious now to any new wars. Looks like Obama is determined to keep us out of any war with Iran, unless it really does turn out to be our only option. Brennan doesn't mesh as well with the other two, since he's apparently been one of the people who's advised Obama to use drone strikes as many times as he has (though, personally, I don't think Drone Strikes are nearly that big of an issue as some of my fellow liberals make it out to be, what it be as big of a deal if they were manned planes? There's mich bigger Civil Liberty issues out there, and drone strikes just isn't really even one of them),
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Jan 8, 2013
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  20. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Why did you bring me back into this? I think you're wonderful. We'll hang out later.
  21. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    I was going to respond to your pity party post Myke, but Ghost said it all really. Katrina was never about Federal aid but rather bad preparation by Louisiana and bad response by FEMA in the immediate aftermath which reflected badly on Bush because of his crony appointment of Michael Brown. New York, New Jersey and FEMA were mostly well prepared in the immediate aftermath . The only groups that did badly were Con Ed and LIPA. However Congress decided to play politics with Sandy relief which is what we're facing now.
  22. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Correct. I blame Boehner more than anyone for the lack of action. I blame Obama for not being vocal about it. And the public for not criticizing his lack of care. NOW... Not when there was an election a week away.

    I like Hagel (although Vanguard cellular is rubbish) and Brennan. Not sure how I feel about Kerry at this point for such a position. Not due to anything preceding the nomination, but simply due to several current statement he has made regarding foreign policy in contrast to the current state of certain countries.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jan 8, 2013
  23. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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    Remember the Powell Doctrine? A "cautious" approach to war is exactly what we should have had from 1991 to the present day, it shouldn't even be newsworthy. And if it hadn't been for George W. Bush and his band of revisionist neocons, it wouldn't be newsworthy.
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, Jan 8, 2013
  24. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

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    star 4
    what i wanna know is what happened to kerry's face? and is that face best suited to be the one representing the department of state?
    Last edited by AAAAAH, Jan 8, 2013
  25. Juliet316 Chosen One

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    Brennan was originally considered for the post in Obama's first term, but withdrew his name because of his statements indicating support of torture during the Bush administration. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

    Kerry's going to be the easiest to push through despite some of his own past (especially after Susan Rice withdrew her name for the post). The GOP desperately want Scott Brown back as a Mass. Senator, and with Kerry bumped up to Sect. of State, they have a shot at it in a special election (I don't think the Democrats can find another Elizabeth Warren to run up against him). I would imagine they won't question Kerry too terribly hard and pretty much sail him on through the confirmation process, which I expect to begin almost immediately after Hilary Clinton finally testifies before the Benghazi Senate committee.

    Hagel's the one Obama's saving the fight for. It's pretty damn clear that Obama wants him as Defense Sect. Just based on reactions from not just the GOP, but from people in Obama's own party, I would expect serious fireworks during the confirmation hearings.