Senate The 2nd Term of the Obama Administration: Facts, Opinions, and Discussions

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    On another note, Mitch McConnell stated that if he becomes majority leader after the 2014 midterms, he will reverse the rule change. Anybody here buy that?
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Good thing the rule changed! The founders intended the senate to work by majority for most things. Republicans have been obstructionist for the sake of opposing Obama. And the republicans should keep this rule change too, it was stupid that this ever existed to begin with.


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  3. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    I agree. Over the 180 or so filibusters in our entire history half of them have been just in this administration alone. So, if you abuse this system then you deserve to lose it.
  4. JediSmuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 1999
    star 5


    Be honest, and cut the bullcrap. You liberals are not offering compromise, you are demanding that the GOP surrender.
  5. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Uhh, okay.

    I'm actually a moderate, but whatever. I guess you've got me all figured out.

    On another note, I'm a little less worried about the GOP cruising to victory from post-nuclear option fallout after this today.

    Keep talking, Rush. All the way deeper into the minority.

    Peace,

    V-03
    Last edited by SuperWatto, Nov 22, 2013
  6. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    To paraphrase Jon Stewart, Smuggler, you seem to be conflating "surrender" with "we don't get everything we want."
  7. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I always thought a majority was 51. But I guess it's gotta be 60 if you're doing things "democratically".
  8. JediSmuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 1999
    star 5

    Problem is, voters elected over 230 Republicans to the House of Representatives. Reid and Obama demanded everything they wanted on this latest filibuster.

    These days, the general morality here seems to be Advancing Democratic causes = good, Republican causes = bad.


    Obama and Reid were all against the filibuster when it was Miguel Estrada and Peter Keisler being considered for the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, and they were desperate to stop that.

    One other thing to keep in mind: There is an old saying about nukes: When one flies, they all fly. The Tea Party will want revenge, and do you really think the GOP will listen to voices of restraint when it is obviously no sense of restraint from Harry Reid?

    And with the way the Obamacare rollout is going, there may well be a GOP President and Senate in 2017.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I don't think Obama's running for reelection.
  10. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Fixed.
  11. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    You're right Smuggler, there may be....and then what?

    They'll try and turn the clock back fifty years, after which there won't be a GOP president and Republican congress for a very long time. If the GOP truly tried to implement the full Tea Party agenda, they'd be sent packing in short order.

    We can debate the definition of "majority" all you like, but 30% is definitely not it.

    Peace,

    V-03
    Last edited by Vaderize03, Nov 22, 2013
  12. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    And Republican causes are...what, exactly? Rather than my airing a laundry list of what I think are shortcomings of the Republican Party, I'd like to hear from a Republican, what is the Republican agenda?

    Care to answer here, or in the "Future of the Republican Party" thread?
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  13. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Oh yeah, when you've got a party that is as morally bankrupt as the Republicans are today, then yes, advancing Democratic causes is good and advancing Republican causes is bad.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  14. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Merk, the answer is simple, to the point, and hasn't changed:

    G-d
    Guns
    Gays
    Abortion

    Followed by:

    Repeal Obamacare, but with no alternative
    Cut taxes for the rich
    Promote creationism in public school science class
    Promote Christian school prayer
    Start another foreign war, probably with Iran

    Did I miss anything?
    Last edited by Vaderize03, Nov 23, 2013
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  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    ^ While this is true, the Democrats now have us in Afghanistan for an additional 10 years, so they're not much better on the whole war thing right now.

    This despite both the American people and the Afghan people being against it. As if that even matters anymore.

    And of course the march to war in Syria was only stopped by Vladimir ******* Putin. [face_plain]
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Nov 23, 2013
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  16. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    True.

    And I forgot: find as many judges as possible who are still living in the 18th century and put them on the Supreme Court.
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  17. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Well, those are all what others might think are Republican causes. However, I'd like to hear from a Republican about what Republican causes entail.
  18. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Same things, just stated differently:

    Traditional values
    Protecting marriage
    Defending life
    Strict interpretation of the Constitution
    States' rights
    Limited (federal) government
    Free market solutions to economic problems
    Defending freedom around the world

    Same agenda, different point of view.

    Peace,

    V-03
    Last edited by Vaderize03, Nov 24, 2013
  19. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Best summed up as: making some form of Conservative Christianity into the state religion, having an overfunded military (and other security forces), having a really strict immigration policy, getting rid of everything else the government does, and paying for what government does do with some sort of flat tax.
    Last edited by Ghost, Nov 24, 2013
  20. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Smuggler: Yes, Obama and Reid reversed their positions. So did McConnell and the Republicans; nearly every Senator that was around in 2005 is guilty of hypocrisy after the 'nuclear option' vote. You don't get it both ways (and neither do we). And, I'd argue, that the only reason Reid and the others changed their opinions is because McConnell took the obstructionism to an entirely new level and abused it. It wasn't even close to the level of the Democrats under Bush.

    If taking away the filibuster option for Senate Republicans is such an abuse of power and a tyrannical act, would you support introducing one to the House? Boehner would now need 261 votes to do anything (I'm laughing as I type that) so Nancy Pelosi is no longer "bullied" - would you support that?
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  21. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    What does everything think President Obama still needs to push for?

    1. The Economy
    ===> a. Infrastructure (investing in: a national infrastructure bank, transportation, schools, housing, electric, water... such as the proposals included in the American Jobs Act... a one-time $100-200b package)
    ===> b. Minimum Wage Hike to at least $10.10/hour and index it to inflation (and possibly other labor laws, like mandatory paid leave time for vacations/sickness/parenthood and more for childcare services)
    ===> c. Tax Reform (eliminate unfair deductions/credits that only benefit the wealthy... eliminate tax breaks and subsidies for Big Oil, for unhealthy foods, and for U.S. companies that ship jobs overseas... cap the mortgage interest deduction and limit it to one residency... perhaps creating a 1% financial transaction tax rate and a minimum effective 30% tax rate for millionaires... maybe even have pre-filled-out tax forms)
    ===> d. Entitlement Reform (decrease the cost of Medicare by actually decreasing the cost of healthcare, by allowing imported drugs, allowing Medicare to negotiate for lower drug prices, prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs, medical malpractice reform... as well as eliminating the payroll tax cap so the wealthy pay more into Social Security

    2. Comprehensive Immigration Reform

    3. End the War in Afghanistan

    4. Close Guantanamo's prison, with fair trials or releases for all those imprisoned there

    5. Pass ENDA, perhaps extended to cover housing/medicine/adoption too

    6. Work with states to pass Universal Pre-School, and more STEM opportunities for high school students so they're better trained for the workforce

    7. At least a vote in the House & Senate on Expanded Background and Mental Health Checks for Gun Purchases



    I'd like to see more than this... especially with Syria, Iran, Cuba, Israel-Palestine, Mexico, drug legalization & lowering the drinking age, campaign financing transparency, nonpartisan congressional redistricting, further erode the filibuster, automatic voter registration/updating, mandate early voting and vote-by-mail, the Paycheck Fairness Act, AmeriCorps expansion, more transparency and disclosure on national security matters like secret surveillance courts, and expansions/tweaks with healthcare reform... but I understand that's not all possible with this administration and especially this Congress, and the ones above should be given priority and what the President should really push for in 2014 and beyond.
    Last edited by Ghost, Dec 31, 2013
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  22. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Funny, he tried to improve infrastructure with the 'shovel ready' thing…and got blasted by the Republicans…tried to promote high-speed rail…got blasted by the Republicans...

    I DO think the US military will be largely out of Afghanistan by the end of 2014…mainly because the American public has gotten 'war-weary' and doesn't seem to care anymore.

    I'd like to see an adjustment of the 'No Child Left Behind' policy. It was an okay start…but needs to be tweaked.
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  23. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    A little late, but I just came across this quote from John Cleese, who said something I've been trying to say for a while:



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  24. -Jedi Joe- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2013
    star 1
    Hmmm...

    - Stop killing people overseas
    - End the NSA spying and push a repeal of the PATRIOT act.
    - Veto NDAA 2015 (And don't lie about it this time)
    - Crack down on Congress and push them to pass a balanced budget

    If you do these things, Mr. President, I won't call you "George Bush the Third" anymore.
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  25. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Can't we just pass a budget? I mean...there's no legislation that says it needs to be balanced to succeed like in the states. In fact, at the federal level running a deficit isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know people like to compare it to a household, but it's...not. A household doesn't need to worry about a huge military or treasury notes or anything. With a household it makes sense to cut back, but with a government cutting back usually means less services for people. They operate on a different level entirely and the people shouting for a 'balanced budget' can't even agree on what one looks like.

    Not to mention the sacred cows (social security, defense, and medicare) that take up large portions of the budget and cannot be cut never ever. You're just in a lose-lose situation if you call for 'balance' that would be needed to fix things. Or as Grover Norquist says, 'A government that can be drowned in a bath tub,' but that's just as bad as no government at all. Big or small, just work on efficiency and don't worry about how big it is--worry about what it's doing. If it's not benefitting its constiuents then its completely failed in its mission and right now that's the situation we're in.

    We've been shoveled for over 34 years this BS line that, 'Government doesn't work,' and we elect these people to show us how badly the government doesn't work. It's just self-inflicted wounds at this point and we're too stupid or too blind to change it. That's why for all their faults I nominally support the Democratic party, because when I look at them they're at least in the same reality I'm in.
    Last edited by Fire_Ice_Death, Jan 13, 2014
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