" The Ability To Destroy A Planet Is Insignificant To The Power Of The Force "

I know we have like two or three threads in this forum alone with this title but I got a theory I want to bounce off you guys. I always contended that THIS was the most important line in the entire Saga, and not " I Am Your Father ". I think I have more evidence to that end. If Lukes' black and white perceptions of good and evil and the dark side of the force are blown out of the water with the ESB line, doesnt this ANH line, in light of the PT, actually blow that perception out of the water first( which would be our perception as viewers if watching the Saga in its released order )? Doesnt this line suggest that Vader has an understanding of the force in general that is uncorrupted as opposed to The Emporers completely corrupted view on the force in lieu of the fact that hes very spirtually powerful and yet wants mechanized doomsday machines that are the very antithesis of the force, light or dark, and ironic to boot in that the Deathstars are celestial shaped objects commisioned by a man with tremendous spirtual, god-like powers and yet adheres to technology instead, whereas Vader isnt disallusioned at all about the true power of the force being insignificant to the power of the Deathstar? Doesnt Vaders' clarity on his belief that the force is and always will be more powerful then the ability to destroy a planet via a weapon illustrate the evidence first that Vader is not completely evil, even before his son senses it even if his father might not realize it? And finally doesnt this insight by Vader lend STRONG evidence that the teachings of Kenobi and Yoda are still instilled to a degree in Anakins mind? If you watch the Saga in order isnt the ANH line the first real evidence that there is a thin ray of hope that he can be redeemed, however a longshot it may have seemed?

 

Interesting idea. That sounds very plausible, actually. I always saw Palpatine as guy who only uses the darkside for gain: he doesn't actually care about the force, just the power.

 

The force/destiny/fate is more powerful. Look what happens at the end. The DS is destroyed. Why? Luke used the Force.

 

Yes, thats true, but what Im getting is that isnt it true with the ANH line that Vader always knew that a deathstar was no match for a powerful force user and isnt that knowledge tangential evidence that Anakin and his Jedi teachings are still somwhere in a dark ( light actually ) corners of Vaders' mind? And furthurmore doesnt it also show because of this enlightened p.o.v. that Vader has that he is indeed wiser and eventually more powerul than Palpatine because it would seem that in the long run the light side of the force isnt only stronger then the darkside but infinetely stronger.

 

Yes, I always thought that was curious. Its one of the things that make me think Lucas always planned for Vader to be redeemed in the end.

 

Or that because he does redeem him Lucas wisely decides to make the PT in a way that caters exclusively to that line in ANH and makes it resonate more powerfully when watching the films in order, especially with Padme uttering in her dying breath that " theres still good in him ", something she feels because obviously as Anakin is being mechanized himself his love for her spans the cosmos and reaches her. A most powerful force user indeed.

 

Yeah, that line is just another reason why the Death Star should not have showed up in AOTC and ROTS. It's simply not important in the grand scheme of things.

 

I strongly disagree with that. The Deathstar is the physical manifestation of the irony of The Emporer and his Empire. There is a Man Vs. Machine theme going on in the entire Saga and the Deathstar needed to be established as a concept to that end early on.

 

Something else to consider coming from Vader's perspective is that it was through use of the force (dark side energy) that the minds capable of engineering and authorising the Death Star were convinced to create it in the first place. The Dark Side was the greater destructive force because it put the ideal into motion. The Death Star was simply one of many tools. Ofcourse we don't really understand this until the prequels reveal the backstory and how everything came to be.

 

Although in the context of the greater Saga I believe the first poster is correct and does show Anakin's unwavering faith in the Force over machinery, this wasn't Lucas' plan I dont think.

When ANH was created I dont think Lucas thought of the Emporer as being a Force user but just a corrupt politician.

 

Oh, I think Lucas thought at least that ( that the Emporer was a Sith or whatever the moniker was in 1977 ). Even though Tarkin does dictate to him in ANH I never, ever, felt that he was in complete control of him.

 

Vader was just telling the Admirals that the Force is stronger than any weapon they can produce. He made no mention of light or dark just the power of the Force.

 

the Force will outlast any weapon created, I think is what he was saying. Regardless of how many planets are blown to smithereens, the Force is omnipresent. Basically, no matter how powerful people think they are, the Force is bigger than they are. I don't think its about a physical showing of the force, such as Luke or anything, but rather a philosophical view. The Force was, the Force is, the Force always will be.

 

Really like your point, severian28.

If Lucas is going to continue to tweak the original trilogy (*cough* 30-year anniversary DVD release *cough*), perhaps he could make more of this. I don't know of a change in dialogue to the original films yet that has been an improvement, but directly comparing and contrasting suited Vader's and Sid's philosophical points of view could be interesting.

 

I also happen to think that the Death Star was not symbolic of the Empire. For all the planet-killing power it has, I think that the fleet of Star Destroyers in ESB still outmatches it for sheer intimidation.

And then of course, you have Darth Vader being philosophical....

 

I agree that there is a man vs machine theme. I do believe there are plenty of machines in the prequils however!

I thank you for the thought though - when Vader is saying the power to destroy a planet is insignifigent next to the power of the force and when Obi Wan says that blasters are inferior to light sabers - I think they are both saying that machines are only tools and are, in the end, powerless next to the the power of free will. By that reckoning I believe it is clear that Vader laments being in the suit and havin to rely on machinery for so many things - he has lost a great deal of free will and "power" by being in that machine.. And in the end, he only makes himself fully free by letting the machine part of him be destroyed... Very fun to ponder.

 

That line reminds me of when I was younger and had star wars battles with a friend with our star wars micro machines. Because of that line, he always thought yoda could destroy the death star just by using the force. I always argued that wasn't true because if he could, he would have, but my friend thought he didn't to allow luke to do it and grow in the force.

 

I would say this is Darth Vader admitting he's fully mastered the force. He knows of its power and how great it can be when applied right. Blasting a single planet is a waste of life and a waste of energy, the force can enslave those lives by either mental probing or physical intimidation. It can perform more tasks then just killing a bunch of innocent people at once, it is the ultimate power in the universe; because it is the universe.

 

Very interesting.