The Advisory Council

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Kadue, Sep 23, 2002.

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  1. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    Bane, farraday: I did mean category rather than forum - don't ask me why I didn't say it that way. Blame it on the cold medication. ;) Anyway, can I take it that's more palatable?

    Mel

    EDIT: Yes, the movie forums probably need two representatives, and the JCC/Senate/Amphitheatre could probably use three, just because that group is so massive. The equal representation was just an idea.
  2. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I think if we say three(maybe four on the outside) from the entire JCC Grouping that would work well.

    The movie forums might require different AC members for each one, considering how different the membership for each of those forums is.
  3. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Yes, the movie forums probably need two representatives, and the JCC/Senate/Amphitheatre could probably use three, just because that group is so massive. The equal representation was just an idea.

    Umm, that's not going to work very well.

    Of the four major non FF groups, Community is the second smallest at about 680 thousand posts.

    The movie forum group is the largest at about 750k, the fan activity group is second at about 710k, and the Expanded Universe has just over 500 thousand posts.

    I think a lot of non-Community posters would be angry that they'd be under-represented.

    GO 'CLONES!
  4. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    Okay, so maybe massive isn't the word I was looking for... I tell ya, words have been conspiring against me all day. :p ;)

    Anyway, I think what I should have said was because that grouping seems to have the most trouble - the majority of the problems I see in here are about one of those three. Fan activities, which is extremely active, doesn't need nearly as much moderation as the JCC group. So I suppose it doesn't need as much representation in the AC - there aren't as many problems (though in the rare cases when we have problems, they're huge). And since all the Ep II excitement calmed down, I haven't seen nearly as many threads about the movie forums either.

    Perhaps we could do this instead: three reps for the JCC, three for the movies (since there are several forums, and not all members are necessarily active in all of them), one for the EU, one for fan activities, and (quick, someone involved in FF feed me a number) for the fan force forums? Or would this not include fan force stuff, since they have a slightly different way of doing things?

    Mel (who's currently doubting her ability to make sense) :p
  5. Dan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 6
    One person to represent, Lit, Games, and EUC? Not gonna work out. And FF really doesn't need representation as far as I can see. That's a whole different set of, uh, stuff, and they have their own methods of working problems out. As far as I know, anyway.
  6. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    Dan: I think you're right on both counts - I'm just trying to get my own thoughts on this organized enough to get other people's opinions on things. It's been a loooooong time since I was in the EU forums - would two be enough?

    (Though if you have two or three for everyone but fan activities, you're probably going to end up with the fan activities people complaining about not having equal representation even though I don't think it needs it. But maybe pull one or two from fan fic, and then another one or two from one of the smaller groups?)

    Mel
  7. Darth_Spiegal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 1
    I agree with Dan, each of those should get their own representation. I think EUC could probably get 2, the rest 1 each.
  8. legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2012
    I think a lot of non-Community posters would be angry that they'd be under-represented.

    i'm going to have to disagree there... i think most non-community posters wouldn't really care... they're here for the star wars, and as long as this doesn't turn into a boyband forum, they'll be happy. not all of them, of course, but i'd guess that a large portion of them don't know that this forum exists, and may not even really care much. i know that when i first came here, i didn't.
  9. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    I disagree with the idea of putting FanForce representatives on the AC to represent FanForce. I think that the FanForce City Rep system is ultimate realization of an AC system. The City Reps are more than capable of representing their constitutes to the RSA?s, and theirs is the model that I think should be emulated. We don?t have to bring FanForce representatives into the AC to represent FanForce because they already have the appropriate kind of representation.

    My proposal is that the following forums send a representative to the AC:
    Your Jedi Council Community (2 representatives)
    The Senate / The Amphitheatre
    The Phantom Menace
    Classic Trilogy
    Attack of the Clones
    Episode III: Spoilers
    Episode III: No Spoilers
    Literature
    EU Community
    Games
    Fan Fiction
    Other Fan Activates

    That?d give us 13 members to start off with who would represent just about every major forum the JC has. Throw in a token former moderator (like farraday or Dark Lady Mara) to add that perspective, and a token FanForce city rep to add that perspective. That?d be fifteen members in all, from across the forums. A small enough group that things wouldn?t just be Communications writ small, but large enough that we should get some diversity of opinion and we shouldn?t encounter periods where no one in the AC is around.

    Try the scheme outlined in this forum for voting in moderators to vote in the AC members. That?ll provide a ?test run? for the public system to determine whether or not it?s practical, and would help us sort out the possible flaws. Nominations would still be run through the current AC.
  10. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Uhhh, so long as we dont have more than, say, 15 members in the AC, it shouldnt be a problem. More than that, and I dont know if it will be effective.

    But for posting to different forums...I know that I nominated members that posted in different forums. They didnt all get in, but we did get a few forums represented. Amongst others, Genghis12 posts in the EU areas, Cigam (before he left) posted in the JC and in FF, Humble Extra posted in the Senate and JCC and FF, AYBABTU posts in the JCC, Comms, Senate. They could post to more places )I havent been to their recent posts). It seems to me that there is representation from these other forums. Just not forum specific representation.

    For FF specific reps in the AC....well, not necessary, if you ask me. Why? Well, many members post in both the JC and FF. I know I have for quite a while. These members could easily discuss FF problems.
    And besides, sperate members is sorta like saying FFers are different sorts of people to the JCers. No they arent, they just post to different areas. Intelligent JC members should be able to evaluate and discuss FF issues, and vice-versa.
  11. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    well for the record we have had more than one AC update, possible 2 or 3.

    I don't think the whole idea of reps for specific forums is workable to be honest, seems like that is going against what the AC is about, which to me is non moderator advice and discussion of confidential issues, not forum representation.

    In terms of reforming the AC, i have advocated from day one removing all permanent reps, and expanding the number of AC members. LEts try this first, rather than turning the AC into some sorta model parliament.
  12. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I kind of agree with Humble, I think we can get a wider range of forums without resorting to a parliment...
  13. QueenDorme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 3
    This is SOOO funny.

    I remember when Ternian(I think) originally brought up the concept of an 'advisory' council because PreacherBoy was locking threads he deemed resolved, when in fact they weren't.

    Let's face it, the Communications Forum is the place to discuss these ideas. All this hullaballoo about an AC is simply a farce. All the admins have to do is reopen the Communications Forum as a Communications Forum.

    Simple as.
  14. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4
    Hmmm.. I'm not sure a form of the proportional representation system is quite what we need in the AC. Though to be fair, I haven't got an alternative to offer.

    And I think we may all be getting caught up in the semantics and details of setting up a AC Version II, without answering the core questions about it's role and motive. Having a diverse membership won't necessarily help it find its place in the present system.

    Having said that, I bagsy the position of Representive of the Radioland Murders, Howard the Duck and The Holiday Special Forum

    It's just below Sci-Fi3Dthingy... you must remember it?


    UKS
  15. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7

    What the AC was meant to be:

    The AC was created as a way for the wider membership to have a larger input into the running of the boards through members that would have a direct line to the admin team, and would be able to have input into policy decisions before implimentation. The members of the AC were also able to act as anonymous messengers, bringing up issues that people felt needed to be discussed, but for various reasons did not wish to do so publicly.

    -Kadue



    As I remember it, the AC had a number of reasons for existing. The AC was supposed to be a place where mods could bring policies to a small group of members so that public reaction could be gauged. The AC was supposed to give the administration insight into new and novel ways to deal with problems with the boards (be it problem members or whatever). The AC was supposed to be part of a feedback loop for the administration, one where AC members could pull up mods and let them know if they see something wrong happening.

    -Dagsy



    To me, all these things can be effectively handled with the Communications forum. The only 2 differences is the fact Comms isn't private, and thus anything brought up in this forum is viewable by everyone (something that isn't a problem, in my eyes) and the fact the AC is made up of a small cross section of users, as compared to the large amount of voices in the Comms forum. (And what's better -- getting opinions from a small selection of users or a large one?)

    Having an AC with more members, representing specific forums and categories or whatever, is all fine and good -- but is it really necessary? And is it going to solve many, if any, of the AC's current problems?

    Another problem with the AC is the lack of Mod participation (in general) -- personally speaking, checking Mod Squad and Communications is usually all I check (when I'm in "Mod" mode) -- having to participate in a third forum, where the Mod Squad and Comms should really suffice, is just more time consuming and unnecessary.


    Basically, I agree with this statement from Kadue's opening post:

    You know, if we could use the Communications forum more effectively, the AC would become a moot point. [We could] encourage the use of the Communications forum. That would also mean all of us in here making a concerted effort to post in there regularly. That's the way to go. Essentially, all the AC members post in Communications as it is. If we could just encourage more members to do the same, you've negated the need for the AC.


    To me, every user on the board has the capability to "advise" the Mod Squad on certain policies, ideas, or anything else we've used the AC for in its time.
  16. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    If you did use Comm effectively then there wouldn't be a problem.

    Now were you planning on using Comm effectively or not?
  17. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    I suppose the point of parliamentary style is pretty simple. I spend most of my time on the boards in fan activities, and rarely have I seen someone I recognized as an AC member in fan activities. So if something comes up before the AC that specifically affects the fan activities section, they're not going to have a clue, and even stopping in there for a while isn't going to help. The AC needs to be a good cross-section of the community if it's going to serve its purpose, and I don't think we have that right now. (Personally, I like Gandolf's suggested distribution.)

    As for mod participation, I think that may be one of the biggest problems with the system currently. Yeah, it takes up time to discuss things in three places, but isn't it part of the job to contribute to discussions about problems? And if one of the primary reasons for the AC is to discuss new policy proposals with select members before they're made public (correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I've understood it to be), that only puts it in two places.

    AC updates - it's been weeks since I noticed one. If there really isn't anything being discussed in the AC, why is that? Obviously there have been things going on in the Mod Squad, because we're getting updates from them. If the mods haven't brought anything to your attention, you could ask a mod what's going on. (Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that in the last few weeks there hasn't been anything going on that shouldn't be discussed with the AC.) And if the mods beat you to the update, oh well. Update us anyway and tell us why you supported something or didn't support something - let us know that you're actually discussing things.

    Mel
  18. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    The lack of mod participation is not a system problem. It is the individual's problem. Every mod should be posting in here regularly.
  19. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    The lack of mod participation is not a system problem. It is the individual's problem. Every mod should be posting in here regularly.

    True, and most Moderators are :)

    So, I expect we will only be seeing 1 member from each forum then ?[face_plain]
  20. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I don't think we've decided on the number of members from each forum yet.

    And man I love your icon. ;)
  21. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    I love yours too Sapient :p

    Because, if each forum gets one, I personally think 3SA and YJCC need more than that :p
  22. Darth_Spiegal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 1
    3SA might need as many as four by April 2005 ;).
  23. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    I have to agree with Epic. The AC has really turned out to be a paper Nexu anyway, in my opinion.
  24. B'omarr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2000
    star 6
    So we'd like to see at least two users from every forum represented in the AC, while still keeping the personal interactions between the mods/admins and members? It won't happen.

    The AC just won't work, the forum is too big now, and to accurately get a good representation across all forums, you have to let the members have a voice from each forum. And if one said member has a problem from a small forum, how will he/she get support and keep the admins/mods from just brushing their ideals aside? They'd be better off just posting in Communications.

    Just look how my suggestion from April/May in the AC for more moderation in Collecting took off. One reply! Yay. I had absolutely no support in this. This wasn't an isolated incident, several times I think my suggestions were brushed aside, whereas if I would have made the same suggestion here it would have rallied more support from the general populace.

    It didn't work.
  25. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    So we'd like to see at least two users from every forum represented in the AC, while still keeping the personal interactions between the mods/admins and members? It won't happen.

    I personally don't think every forum should have 2 Members Selected.

    I think it should be decided between the Moderators on how many for each. Personally, most only need one, and then theres exceptions to maybe around 2-4 that need 2 Members selected.

    I think it would be overdoing it, or going out of the way for more than 1 on some of the Forums selected.
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