ST The Aesthetic of the Sequel Trilogy

Well that is what they were going for. They want us to have no confusion whatsoever that if they were allowed to remake episodes 4-6 they would. Instead they have to make minor changes to it overall under the guise of being new. I mean, Rogue One and by the looks of it Solo are introducing new designs that are totally in keeping with the series, are instantly recognizable as belonging to Star Wars, but enough to show some creativity and daring. The Resistance X Wing is just the McQuarrie sketch from ANH. They didn't even have to put any actual thinking into it. I'm sorry, but Star Wars makes me want to collect ships and figures. I didn't have to buy any because I already had several x wings and Tie fighters in my collection and wasn't enticed to add a couple repaints to the mix. There is something inherently wrong with that.

 

Only

Only if the main purpose of Star Wars is to make people buy a diverse range of toys.

 

I saw a new film about the Old West the other day. The horses have barely changed, the heroes were wearing stetsons which is so unimaginative, there was even a scene in a saloon.

 

Yeah we don't want any newfangled fancy crap with our horses pardner.

And there is nothing wrong with them making these films the way they are doing as long as it works for those it works for. But for me, I want to see new designs, new unfathomable locations and stories that get me so incredibly hooked I will spend the next 40 years studying and memorizing the sequences, the dialogue and the theme music. I don't want them to just do passable, or play it safe so the OT only crowd won't be upset too much. And more over, I really want them to worry more about how good the films are as opposed to how strong they will perform in the box office.

 

Did you think that TLJ with its divisive and c0ntroversial story choices for Luke was the result of making decisions based on box office as opposed to attempting to do something challenging, interesting and creative?

 

Let me rephrase: I was 7 when ANH came out and the toys were a main component of the experience for me. Now that I'm much older I grab a few starfighters and figures for old time sake. I like to look upon them and feel all glowy. I do realize this is not everyone's thing or even a noteworthy consideration. But when we speak of honoring SW and it's roots, the toys were a main component of it originally. Before video games and visual encyclopedias and bonus content blu ray box sets the toys were the only way to own a piece of the action to tide you over until the next installment

 

I suspect there are seven year olds now who have similar feelings about toys and games. Do you not think it possible that the difference is in that you are now not a child? I collect Star Wars figures as a grown up, and I love doing so, but they’re not magical in the same way toys were when I was 7

 

No I loved all of that. I actually liked both movies individually but with a few reservations. Abrams bothered me a bit with his position that he was using more practical effects and building more sets than the prequels, which wasn't true. Stripped down, basic sets were ok for ANH but were never enough for any of the other episodes.

Johnson was daring and made a film distinct from the others, but at the expense of a cohesive storyline going into IX. His film diverted from the seemingly obvious trajectory Abrams was aiming at in my opinion, and now I feel the next film will have a hard time reaching a conclusion that feels natural and planned. This, in my opinion, was what went wrong with the cycle of EU novels before it. With the writers tagging in and out between books, the plotlines all felt superfluous and the main storyline always took a backseat to the individual writers interests. This is how I feel this trilogy is shaping up.

ANH introduced us to Luke Skywalker and his adventures with the rebellion, his discovery and confrontation with his parentage and path to becoming a Jedi against a backdrop of war against the oppression of the Dark side, ending with the redemption of his father, a once heroic jedi knight.

TPM introduced us to said father on his quest to become a Jedi against a backdrop of war orchestrated by the Dark lord of the Sith at its center, culminating in the fall of Anakin Skywalker, the republic and the Jedi, bringing us full circle with where ANH begins.

TFA introduces us to an overgrown remnant of the Empire headed by a dark side user from where who corrupted Luke Skywalkers nephew how leading to Luke giving up the will to live (yet left a hidden map to his location why) delivered by a young girl who is the chosen one (at least where Anakins old, lost lightsaber is concerned) who is really pining away for her parents (who don't really matter anymore at this point in the narrative), all leading to a show down with the vague dark side leader ending in his swift death against a backdrop of Finn and Rosie going on safari to accomplish something no one needed them to attempt, all culminating in a ground assault against walkers on a snow, I mean salt, covered world. Another original cast member dies on cue at the end (this was really cool, really the best part). In closing, we have essentially a bad restaurant under new management (the first order), a galaxy that really is unenthused by the whole affair, with pretty much the entire rebellion seated in the back of the millennium falcon.

Does any of this strike you as coherent, well thought out and epic enough to have based a trilogy on? But what we can be thankful for is that it performed well at the box office.

 

Disagreewith yiur reductive take on the ST, but fair enough, we’re just in disagreement about quality I guess, which we probably won’t convince the other of. No worries

 

I was just saying they are x wings, tie fighters, the millennium falcon and a wings, pretty much the same design as ROTJ. We get a new car design every year or so. 30 year old cars look it man. You mean to tell me Sienar and Kuat Drive Systems got stuck with the same design for 30 years? No, horses don't change because they are horses. In the ST, the horses are just overgrown caricatures of themselves. Doesn't take much to avoid them either, apparently you can't just stay a little ahead and they can't catch you, just make you run out of Tibanna gas instead.

 

Thank You! Just debating the ups and downs of it all. I don't want to take away from the appreciation of it for anyone. I love the characters and of course I'll be at opening night like always to see what happens next to them. I know Lucasfilm doesn't read these forums or anything. They have to rely on critics and box office performance to tell them if they are doing it right or not. This is the only place where I can voice my concerns, and my only one overall point of contention is that it shows more and more why SW became the cultural phenomenon that it did: It was conceived and written by one creator with a specific story to tell, who just did it because he loved it. There isn't a formula to follow save for the one in George's head. That was the first mistake was for Disney to try and intuit one. It's more than the sum of its parts and it's more than the terms they throw around: Franchise. Property. Success. Modern day mythology. Hero's journey. Not one of these concepts encompasses the riches of what's within. It kinda hard to classify

 

Visually, this was the least compelling film of the Disney era thus far, IMO, which surprised me. Rian seems to have been hampered by adhering too closely to the cinematographic style of TFA. He has a much more subtle approach in his other films than he shows here, and I hope he brings that aesthetic to his new trilogy.

 

I'll say this for TLJ's aesthetics: one area it hearkened back to at least the design choices of George Lucas as opposed to JJ Abrams was that (nearly) every location was distinguishable at a glance.

That was one of my biggest complaints about TFA: Jakku was of course very reminiscent of Tatooine (with in-universe reasoning, which is fine); Starkiller Base reminded me of Hoth But With Trees And Buildings, Maz Kanata's castle could've fooled me into thinking it was one of Yavin's Massassi temples, and I actually didn't get on my first viewing that D'Qar and Takodana were different planets. Ach-To was distinct, of course, but that was one planet.

But you wouldn't mistake Crait for anywhere else, or Canto Bight (which I liked, but I totally get the criticism). The Supremacy was basically a giant OT Star Destroyer w/ the FO's Apple-sleekness added, admittedly, but the red screens in the Throne Room at least made that part of the ship instantly distinguishable from the Emperor's throne room from RotJ.

I understand that in the Lucas days, that was a major factor in designing locations—making every one distinct at a glance. Come to think of it, Rogue One also managed to do that quite well.

Also, as has been said by many, and bear in mind I am a huge fan of the ST, I desperately want to see in IX an original vehicle design that doesn't look kind of like the Star Tours Starspeeder.

 

Maybe ever so slightly off-topic...

As regards planets, I get the reason for this, but it is funny how planets, in the SW universe (and some other SW universes) tend to be of a single environment, or, at least, it gets suggested they are that way. At the same time, I "get" that in most cases, we tend to spend all our time in one region of a planet, so maybe we simply aren't traveling to other environments. However, we tend to think of Hoth as a snowy planet, the moon of Endor as a forest-moon, Tatooine and Jakku are desert planets, Dagobah is covered in jungle, etc. It's as if they take the many diverse environments found on Earth, and most planets tend to highlight one of them.

And while I understand the desire to see new designs when it comes to ships, weapons, etc, and I share that to some extent, I can see where that is tricky, as fans do develop affections for a certain look, a certain style, and even for certain vessels/weapons. I've enjoyed some of the attempts to split the difference, so to speak - the slightly different design of the "Imperial Walkers" for example, in LAST JEDI...

 

True, all of those worlds you mentioned are well-distanced from Earth like environments -- but they were all shot on sound stages in front of green screens, with extensive digital set extensions (and some miniatures) added in post production.

I loved the design of those worlds, and I don't have an issue with artificially created environments such as these. But some very vocal fans did; I recall some very negative reactions when word got out that Revenge of the Sith would not have any location shoots. And there was a lot of griping about "fakey" backgrounds in the PT in general and over-reliance on sound stages and blue/green screens.

Not saying that they should base those decisions on what fans complain about... Seriously, the only thing that would have made some of them happy would have been for Lucas to shoot all of the Geonosis scenes on Mars.

 

Yes I have to concur. I liked the feel of Rogue One and the blend of known and new vehicles in that time period.

30 years later, and we don't have a galaxy of diverse aesthetics, but almost a new "patch" for the OT aesthetics.

Something's not right. I'm not aesthetically what I should be. I want more. But I know I shouldn't...

I feel like maybe had you had slightly different star fighters that would certainly have helped. Especially for Jedi like we had in the PT. Even in the OT, you have a variety of star fighters deployed by both factions. And multiple worlds with varying scenery.

For instance, if we had a few different styles of attire, species etc then it gives off more of a Galactic feel. E.g. take the elaborate dress style of the PT era. The Naboo, Pandorans, Twileks etc. The grandeur and might of the Imperials in the OT. Padme's outfits, the variation on Wobani and Jedha, Princess Leia's hairstyles. The variation between Tatooine and Bespin's Cloud City.

It would be nice to see more worlds and different aesthetics with 2018 visual technology versus trying to simply replicate set scenes from previous films. Then you get a more galactic feel than "this is all happening in one corner of the galaxy" type feeling.

I think that's one thing you notice about the PT, the sheer world building. It's a shame the capital world or indeed other key worlds are not showcased in the ST. One thing that Star Trek seems to have done right is showing off myriad cultures and dress styles.

 

Judging what we've seen of Solo so far, and Rogue One, I think the design, production teams and DPs on the Anthology films are so far doing a better job of capturing the deep-world Star Wars aesthetic than the ST. That may all be down to stylistic differences in terms of storytelling, but the Anthologies just...look more authentic. There's so much beyond the frame.

 

I must say I feel the same. I mean I haven't seen Solo fully, but I think Rogue One just had that Star Wars feel. It blew my mind away. It felt like it just fit into the universe and storyline so well. A blend of the timeline whilst introducing appropriate new costumes, troopers, vehicles, worlds etc. The aesthetics felt spot on.

With the ST set 30 years later, it needs to feel like 30 years later. And more galactic than backwater corner of a galaxy. If anything more PT like.

 

I really agree with this and I think for me it boils down to two things: scale and world building. The gffa needs to feel enormous, but to be fair, that is a product of script as much as visuals. Visuals help, though, by combining a complex array of familiar with alien in each world. In a scene that takes place planet-side, we need to feel like we are visiting one of countless individual worlds of this giant gffa with realism and depth.

 

Agreed, though I think visuals can do more (with less) to suggest a larger and deeper galaxy than a script. You can have a really small story, set on one planet and focusing on one nobody character, and through the set design, costume designs, lighting, blocking, framing, etc, can give the impression of a real and expansive world. One thing that bothers me about the ST, for example, is how it seems all the actors act in a bubble when they interact, with background characters not able to infiltrate their space. And characters seem to visibly step to their marks and deliver dialogue. It's not naturalistic. Add to that a cinematographic and lighting style that's a little less realistic than that of the OT, RO and Solo (which have a cinema verite egde), and it's not quite the immersive world I remember from the OT. With the exception of Jakku, which I thought felt very authentic, and some moments on Ahch-to. But this is mostly a matter of very personal taste, of course.

 

I agree with almost everything here. I also think Jakku is the best of the ST, but I still think it’s not as good as the rest of SW world building, including the PT. It’s good and the best effort, but to me it just never felt like a believable place that settlement, with what it had, could survive the way it was presented. It felt kind of unfinished, although I really love the idea of it and almost all of the visuals there.

I have to disagree about Ahch-to, unless you count the deleted scene with the party. That scene was the best world building in TLJ, but it didn’t make it to the final product. With what was in TLJ, I thought the nuns and the space cow and the Ahch-to sets were terrible and not immersive with our characters’ bubbles. None of it felt real. Everything was there for Rey and Luke’s benefit. It’s one of my (admittedly many) peeves about TLJ.

 

Re: Ahch-to, it was just a few moments. Mostly Luke's trek along the coastline, which simply felt like a real place. And though many dislike the sea cow, I though the design of it was perfect for the landscape. Super-believable.

 

A couple simple changes and I would have loved the space cow. As is, I have always felt it was like Adult Swim humor and not SW realism. First, the “udders” looking less like exact replicas of human breasts would have been better. As is, their presence felt like 12 year old boy humor. Second, the way the animal reacted and then made eye contact with Rey was just a joke. Not even a hint of realism in that. Then Luke’s messy swig right from the bottle like it’s a pint at a pub and he’s already drunk. He wasn’t milking it to carry a jug back to his hut for purposes of using and/or refining in the coming days or weeks. It came off like he was trying to gross out Rey. Ugh I guess I could write a lot about why that scene rubbed me wrong, because I have more lol, but I’ll jut say it felt like a joke, not like realism. The cow was there to be milked by Luke (why does it even have milk? Where are the babies then? It seemed pretty used to Luke like it produces milk just for him) and then moan and then look at Rey. It’s too bad because minus the udders, I do think the look was great and very SW. I love the practical effect of the monster as well.

Luke’s trek along the coastline was very beautiful though.

 

I enjoyed Ach To a lot, especially the cut village party scene. The temple just needed something additional to make it feel SW rather than an LOTR set. If you want to do KOTOR era ruins then refer to the comics for advice about how they made it look ancient yet futuristic simultaneously. Don't use an earth set unaltered in a SW movie, that's just lazy.