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Spoilers The Ahsoka Tano Mega Thread Power Hour

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Todd the Jedi, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV

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    Okay, here it goes. This thread is an attempt to consolidate everyone's favorite two topics into one thread.*
    1. Ahsoka Tano is the best thing ever and you're wrong if you think otherwise!!!
    2. Ahsoka Tano is the worst thing ever and you're wrong if you think otherwise!!!
    Arguments between the proponents of these two topics are spilling into way too many threads, so here's a place for all y'all to have at it (keeping things within the TOS, as always).

    I'll be along to guide discussions, so to kick off the smorgasbord, allow me to provide my own WOT feelings on this topic.



    SO. Food for thought- Ever since 2008 there's been nothing more divisive than two things, The Force Unleashed, and The Clone Wars. But TFU is awesome, so nothing to argue there. ;)

    However, TCW remains one of this fandom's greatest dividers, and I believe a lot of that boils down to its lead heroine- Ahsoka "Snips" Tano. Setting aside how an awful nickname like Snips is actually fully in character for Anakin "that's so wizard" Skywalker to say, Ahsoka's position within the fanbase has been a topsy-turvy ride ranging from one extreme to the other, plus a few extremes we won't go into here *coughdeviantartcoughtumblrcough*.

    Bottom line- she's divisive. But why? After all, is TCW nothing more than a Saturday morning-type kids program, all ****s and giggles? "But TtJ, TCW is for adults too!", you might say. Well, I mean, in a day and age where tons of grown men and women alike are into a show called My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, then I think the "it's for adults too" argument loses some steam.

    Of course adults can enjoy kids shows. They're created and written by adults, after all. But the fact remains that the target audience is children. And that, my friends, is why we have Ahsoka Tano. She's there for the target audience of children to relate to. Can they relate to war, the plight of indentured warriors, the plight of ever-doomed battle droids? Perhaps, but they sure as hell can relate to a snarky girl who's super eager to help those around here, and often feel left behind by her older, wiser compatriots. It's the exact same reason Peter Paker was created as a high school student, while all his enemies were evil adults. What sells? Or, who leads to the highest sales? Kids.

    "So okay, Ahsoka is there for the kids. Big deal. Aang from the Avatar franchise is there for the kids as well. Isn't he the exact same?" Well, not exactly. Where Ahsoka creates division, I believe, stems from the execution of her character. There's cute kid character who is one of the bros (Aang), and then there's annoying kid character who's way in over her head (Ani Ahsoka). From the beginning it just seemed like Ahsoka was in the show to provide a contrast to her much more experienced fellow Jedi, and sometimes it worked, while others it just made me want to punch my television.

    But that was just season 1. Once things got going, Ahsoka's character took on a new role- showing how awesome she was to the detriment of every other character. Sure, maybe she still lost her lightsaber to some low life thieves in the city, and sure, maybe she was still shown up by Separatists who had more to them than met the eye (but still looked too much like Justin Bieber ;) ), but episode after episode in the later seasons showed us that Ahsoka was an infallible Jedi who made even Anakin look silly and mundane in comparison.

    NOW, I know these are just my feelings and impressions, and I know how beloved Ahsoka is by many fans. Honestly I can't wholly dislike her character when I know she's directly responsible for a whole slew of new Star Wars fans, young and old alike. Plus, she indirectly led to the Her Universe movement, and directly led to a general increased appreciation for women in Star Wars, so I simply cannot hate her altogether. And now that she's on Rebels, we have a whole new chapter to take with her, whether it's to hate her for stealing time away from the Rebels cast, or to love that she's still kicking ass and taking names years after her initial introduction as that wide-eyed idealist.

    Oh and I said no deviantArt, but I think this sums up the two factions' feelings in a nutshell-
    Show Spoiler

    [IMG]


    *Addendum: While the OP is still relevant and valid, this thread is also now more of an all-purpose Ahsoka thread.
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Mar 28, 2017
  2. SilentGuy66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2014
    star 4
    Next thread after this "60 Minutes With The Ghost Crew"
    sarlaccsaurs-rex likes this.
  3. Davak24 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2015
    star 5
    It's funny you mention the Avatar franchise. Because Filoni actually came from that before he came to Star Wars.

    I say this, because I wish he'd just had stayed there. And not to mention I bet he learned his trolling tactics from Mike and Byran.

    Edit: Lol. But yeah. I do wish we had the receipt.
    Last edited by Davak24, Aug 16, 2015
  4. TheSilentInfluence Silent and Friendly Mod of SWTV and SWC.

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    Well, I really like Ahsoka as a character because she was relatable to me as a teenager and I grew up with her character in a way as the show progressed. I mean, I get why some people don't like her. But to me she's an awesome, brave character who made mistakes and learned from them. I was really happy when Ahsoka appeared on Rebels. I started tearing up to be honest because she was such a great role model (along with Leia) to me.

    I also feel like Ahsoka might meet her end on Rebels and I'm perfectly fine with that as long as her death is done right.
  5. Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2015
    star 3
    [face_skull]2:ahsoka:



    where's my sinister laugh when I need it. JK
  6. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    I don't hate Filoni; I appreciate his skills as an animator and his enthusiasm as a Star Wars fanboy.

    I also think that Ahsoka could be given the exact same personality but handled differently in reference to the overall story, and might not have been so divisive.

    Disclaimer: before anyone starts with the "off these boards/in the general fandom/etc. she's popular and you people are in the minority for not liking her!"--here's a few credits, call someone who cares. Caring about what opinion is "popular" is for high school, and my 25th reunion was last year. Now, let's proceed.

    I thoroughly enjoyed her good, sarcastic wit that led Anakin to give her the nickname, and I enjoyed her relationship with him even after I stopped liking her at all. I appreciated that HE cared about her like a little sister, and that was the gut-punch in The Wrong Jedi.

    What I did not appreciate was her being Filoni's mouthpiece for everything that Filoni thought was wrong with the Jedi.

    She gets a lot of praise for "maturing" over the last few seasons. Setting aside the fact that I found her "mature" personality boring as hell and thus to her detriment, she seemed to be the only character that got much development at all. Unless we count Luminara's obedient Padawan turning into Bombiss, but is that "development"?

    I do appreciate that some people have become Star Wars fans because of the show and her in particular, despite the fact that I consider not showing the OT to children to be a parenting fail. I welcome new Star Wars fans any way they come in.

    One argument I have heard on Ahsoka is similar to one I have heard about Mara Jade: if you don't like her, you just don't like strong female characters. Let's just dry that one out and make enough fertilizer to Vong-form Coruscant right away.

    The argument does demonstrate that we grossly need more female Jedi, and strong female characters in general, in future Star Wars productions. Nobody accuses people who dislike Luke of hating all Force-sensitive white dudes with bad haircuts, right? Right. So, again, let's proceed, starting by not feeding any more Ex-Lax to that particular herd of banthas.

    There's a decent chance I'm going to appreciate her in Rebels, provided of course that she does not, again, become Filoni's mouthpiece for what is wrong with the rebellion, the Ghost crew, Kanan training Ezra, etc.

    ...OK, she can be the mouthpiece for what's wrong with Ezra. If done well I might just have a "preach it Mad Skillz Snips" for her in the end.
  7. thatotherjedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2015
    star 2
    Very nice summation and analysis although I do come down on the other side of the fence...

    Every episode eh... :rolleyes: :p
  8. SilentGuy66 Jedi Master

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    Dec 1, 2014
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    The only thing I don't like about Ahsoka was how she was rushed into rebels. I mean not even 20 episodes in and she's now a recurring character
  9. Davak24 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2015
    star 5
    I agree with most of that. Well done.
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  10. Saga Explorer Jedi Knight

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    Mar 14, 2015
    star 3
  11. Ahsoka's Tano Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2014
    star 5
    In one ear and out the other. Thanks.
  12. thatotherjedi Jedi Knight

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    Jun 6, 2015
    star 2
    Agreed. :)

    Well she was the "protagonist" of the series, but I would disagree with that statement. I feel like 5's had a character development arc that was epic...

    Actually, I think Sabine would take the crown for vocalizing "everything that was wrong with the Jedi".

    I think to deny that sexism and racism exist in some people's reactions to characters is dangerous as it does clearly exist.
    Ahsoka's Tano likes this.
  13. Ahsoka's Tano Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2014
    star 5
    And about Ahsoka's character "being there for kids", please remind us all what the TV rating was for TCW's episodes on Carton Network's Adult Swim compared to Rebels on DISNEY XD.

    Child's play
    Last edited by Ahsoka's Tano, Aug 16, 2015
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  14. hairymuggle Jedi Knight

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    Apr 28, 2014
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    Oh? And how exactly would that apply to Ahsoka? Mind you, the only 'sexist' reactions I've seen toward her is assuming that all female fans HAVE TO like her or that she is the only female character in Star Wars (conveniently ignoring both Padme and Leia, as well as the other female characters in the EU). Ahsoka fans are guilty of all of those. And as far as sexism in Star Wars goes, perhaps you can ask Filoni how come all the existing female characters who had prominent, complete storylines in the EU (Aayla, Ventress, Barriss, Luminara, Adi Gallia, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, The Dark Woman, Aurra Sing...) were all killed off or received only cameos in seven seasons and two shows, just so his one favourite can look better. You can also ask him why he felt the need to put an under aged female Jedi in a tank top bikini.

    It's also dangerous to dismiss other opinions as 'sexist' or 'racist' without listening first. Ahsoka haters have pointed out many valid reasons for why she is the most disgusting creation in Star Wars (continuity is a mess, she doesn't progress the story, she hogs up too much time and spotlight, she's a fanboy fantasy, she's unnecessary, she detracts from other female characters, she's brainless, she murders and manipulates, her prominence came as a cost to other characters....), but time and time again these viewpoints are labelled as "sexist" by Ahsoka worshippers who cannot imagine anything wrong with her.

    Ironically, all the female Star Wars fans I've known hate her (me included), and all the fans who like her are males who only "warmed up" to her after her design change after S3 (where she "suddenly" had two lightsabers and became a svelte figure in a tank top).

    The EU showcases a lot of minority and female characters to great effect - can I accuse haters of sexism and racism too? What about Mace Windu haters?
  15. moonjump05 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2013
    star 4
    Really? All the fans who like her are males looking for PANTS material? ....really? You may want to consider rephrasing that, or you know, not inventing gross generalizations if you want anyone to take your post seriously.
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Aug 16, 2015
  16. Darth Valkyrus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    They kinda eased her into it.

    At first when she appeared in the show as a 14 year old, she only ever trashed droids. Droids droids and more droids. This is how it went on for the first two and a half seasons.

    Then after she was up-aged by the S3 timeskip, it wasn't long before she got her first actual kill, Osi Sobeck, saving Tarkin's life and ironically dooming Alderaan in the process.

    After that she started killing people on a more regular basis. She really amped it up in A Friend in Need, when the Death Watch massacred a village of innocent people to prove a point, and Ahsoka got furious. She attacked first with a wooden pole she had to hand and didn't do too well, but she soon got her lightsabers back and then suddenly OFF WITH THEIR HEADS. She slaughtered a whole bunch of them.

    She wasted a couple of the Trandoshans in the the duology where the Trandoshans were hunting Jedi.
  17. Ahsoka's Tano Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2014
    star 5
    Like I said, the Ahsoka hate thread continues. Thanks Todd.

    And these haters still can't come up with legitimate reasons as to why her character is irrelevant (all the while it's OK for other characters like the Inquisitors and Rex the clone carryover to add new canon material to the franchise.

    Hypocrisy 101.
    Last edited by Ahsoka's Tano, Aug 16, 2015
  18. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    How in the hell did a statement that people who dislike Ahsoka are not always operating on "dislike of female characters" become "denial that racism and sexism exists in the fandom"?

    I've been accused on these boards of reading sexism where it didn't exist and now I'm being accused of denying that sexism exists. LMAO.

    @hairymuggle is right. What is really sexist is assuming that anyone who does not love ALL female characters must be sexist. Hence my question about Luke. And I'll expand on that: is a fan allowed to hate Lando's portrayal in Idiot's Array--or just hate Lando, period--without being accused of racism? What about Mace? I've seen a lot of comments about him being cold, insensitive, an ***hole, etc. Do these fans just hate black people, or is it possible that they might like a black character with a personality they find more appealing? I'm going with the latter. And I love me some Mace. And ESB/ROTJ Lando. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Hera kick Lando in the crotch in Idiot's Array though.

    Come to think of it, there's no winning in that scene. Loving it probably makes the viewer racist, hating it makes the viewer sexist. Pick your poison I suppose.

    As far as character development, if the only other example is Nightmares-Are-Over Fives, the show has a problem.

    I'd be fine with taking the Sabine discussion over to that thread, if it is a discussion and not "hey look over there!", but the difference is that Sabine is a Mando and in the EU, they hate Jedi, which is fine. And very different from a teenage Jedi as an intentional mouthpiece for all that Filoni thinks is wrong with the Jedi Council.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Aug 16, 2015
  19. hairymuggle Jedi Knight

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    As I've said: All the fans I've known. I'll revise my opinion when I meet people who say something other than "but she's so hot!" when asked.

    As far as "PANTS material" goes...well, I only said they became fans after her total redesign (and goodness knows I don't like Ewan McGregor only for his acting ability), but it's funny how you drew that inference for yourself.
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Aug 16, 2015
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  20. Ahsoka's Tano Jedi Master

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    Oct 28, 2014
    star 5
    I'll revise my opinion on the reason why AHSOKA REMAINS POPULAR when I can read something coming from a legitimate source other than the minority opinion that's been prevalent in this forum that she's essentially been shoved down fan's throats courtesy of Filoni.
  21. thatotherjedi Jedi Knight

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    Jun 6, 2015
    star 2
    I wasn't labelling anybody or anakinfansince1983's opinion as sexist. What I was saying is that there are individuals who will dislike a character based on their gender and their race. That is a fact. What I was saying is that you can't equate the negative reaction of some people to john boyega as a stormtrooper and dislike of Luke Skywalker.


    Who suggested that? It seems you are making a straw-man argument...

    So many things wrong with that statement....

    Not even tied with Jar-Jar?

    Again, nobody was labelling anybody anything...
  22. Davak24 Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 15, 2015
    star 5
    ^^And I'd like to know where your source is on how people like myself are in the "minority"?
    Last edited by Davak24, Aug 16, 2015
  23. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal and I'm not arguing with you, just adding a few anecdotes from the other side. The males that I have become friends with here almost all hate her (with a few exceptions) and think her outfit is wrong and creepy because she's so young. This is just my understanding and I don't want to speak for any of them. There was a guy who posted here a few years ago who was creepily obsessed with her; I don't remember if we got "She's so hot" even from him. But then again, that's this forum and such comments have always been generally frowned upon even prior to the sexism policy.

    This thread is going to devolve really quickly if it goes into "You only like her because you think she's hot" or "You only hate her because you're sexist."

    I think it is possible to discuss all of our good and bad impressions of the character without the thread devolving. The key to that is nobody taking differences of opinion seriously or personally or getting emotional. And yes, TV Forum, that can happen. We are all old enough to post here and we can do this.

    @Davak24 : The whole "minority opinion" thing doesn't matter, as I said in my first post here. Without knowing how old you are, I am going to assume "old enough not to care what other people think, much less change your opinion based on what's 'popular'." (Seriously, who are the spineless wusses who still do that?)
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Aug 16, 2015
  24. Sandtrooper956 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2015
    star 4
    Lol, just reading what has already been posted in this thread makes me laugh. My opinion: Ahsoka is just a character. She isn't something that needs to start a whole fight over about sexism and stuff. Either you like her or you don't. But no matter what I say, the pointless fights will always continue. :/ At least these fights are here now instead of hogging up the other threads. Thanks Todd!
  25. moonjump05 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2013
    star 4

    Please, there are fans all over that you may not have personally met who do not hold that view. There are fans on this board who do not hold that view. So you have 'met' fans who do not hold that view. I have seen plenty of posts about why Ahsoka is liked, I've made a few myself, that do not include "she's hot". Or only male fans like her as you generalized.

    And it sure is 'funny' I made that PANTS inference, with such wholly innocent wording as "svelte figure in a tank top" or "tank top bikini" or male fans only "warming up" to her after a costume change. Sure is funny, with the OP referrencing the deviant art extremes. LOL, so funny.
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Aug 16, 2015