The All New United States 2004 National Elections COUNTDOWN!

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Mar 7, 2003.

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  1. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Welcome all, to continue the debate/discussion about the upcoming national elections. We only have one year and eigth months before the major parties square off again, this time even the Presidency is up for grabs. The following information regarding the various races has been provided curtesy of TripleB and Yahoo.

    ============================================================
    The following political offices will be up between November 2003 and November 2004. All have been verified based on POlitics1.com and Yahoo Elections search.


    During the course of any discussion, the following terms should be used in descriptions of political campaigns.

    LOCK A Lock means that the incumbent and/or challenger, short of some sort of biblical disaster, is virtually assured of re-election to the point that it will be a no-contest, slam dunk affair.

    Favored A Favored rating means the candidate seems to have certain things in their factor and is in all likely hood heading to re-election, but is by no means assured of re-election on the same vice. Bad misteps, the opposition putting out a good candidate, but for this person to lose would be an upset at the time I write this.

    TossUp Depending on whom is sent up against him, a FAVORED or LOCk can become a TOSS UP, if the conditions are right; also for states which have a tradition of one thing but a senator who stands for something else. This really is just what it means, that it could go either way, and at the time of this writing, regardless of mis-steps or disasters, or what the opposition does.

    Vulnerable Candidates who are vulnerable are candidates, for example, who have been caught up in a major scandal; who are running states which in all likelyhood won't re-elect that person. A candidate has to be in major trouble to be VULNERABLE.


    OPEN - If a candidate has chosen not to run for Re-Election, or is being Term LImited out in certain governors races, then the seat is OPEN, with no incumbent holding the seat.
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    Candidates for the office of PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

    George W Bush, Incumbent

    Senator John F Kerry

    Senator Joeseph Lieberman

    Senator Bob Graham

    Senator John Edwards

    former Vermont Governor Howard Dean

    Rep. Richard Gephardt

    Rep Dennis Kucinich

    former US Senator Carol Mosely-Braun

    Reverand Al Sharpton


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES]



    ***All 438 US House Seats will be up for Re-Election/Election in November 2nd, 2002. Vacancies could occur between now and then, for example, if a person dies while in office, steps down to run for a different office, and such. There could be more re-districting in several states.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    United States Senators up for Re-Election in 2004

    Senators whose Terms of Service Expire in 2005
    DEMOCRATS

    ***Bayh, Evan Indianna-
    ***Boxer, Barbara-CA.
    ***Breaux, John-LA.
    ***Dodd,Christophter-CT .
    ***Daschle, Tom-SD-
    ***Dorgan,BYron-ND .
    ***Edwards,John-NC
    ***Feingold,Russel-WI
    ***Graham,Bob-FL
    ***Hollings,Ernest-SC
    ***Inyonee,Daniel-HA
    ***Leahy,Patrick-VT
    ***Lincoln, Blanche-ARK
    ***Mikulski,Barbara-MD
    ***Miller, Zell- GA - Senator Zell Miller has announced he will not run for Re-Election in 2004, making this an open seat.
    ***Murray,Patty- WA.
    ***Reid, Harry- NV
    ***Schumer, Charles- NY
    ***Wyden, Ron- OR .


    Republicans

    ***Bennett, Robert-Utah
    ***Bond, Christopher-MO
    ***Brownback, Sam- KS
    ***Bunning, Jim-KY
    ***Campbell, Nighthorse-CO
    ***Crapo, Mike-ID
    ***Fiztgerald, Peter-IL
    ***Grassley, Chuck-IA
    ***Gregg, Judd-NH.
    ***McCain, John- AZ I
    ***Murkowski, Lisa-ALaska
    ***Nickels, Don- OK
    ***Shelby, Richard- AL
    ***Specter, Arlen- PA-
    ***Voinovich, George- OH


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  2. TripleB Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    I will get to the other races later, but for now, here is my take on the 4 questions you have submitted.

    1. Who will win the Democratic Primary?

    I find it amusing, that the Democratic Party, the party which used Welfare, PUblic Housing, Food Stamps, Social Engineering, and the other cabootle stuff they offer; how they have used the above to enslave the Black population of the United State's to them under the promise of how they must always vote Demcorat in order to improve their lives, which never.

    Ironic how now, the Democrat Party leadership are going to go below the belt and such to ensure that Al Sharpton is politically assasinated as a candidate. Sad and pathetic, but neccesary if they want to mount any sort of a credible challenge to Bush. But beleive me, I would LOVE to see AL Sharpton get the Democrat nomination....it gaurantee's Bush will win a 50 state landslide.

    Realistically, though, I believe John F Kerrey will be the Demcorat's sacrificial lamb to lose against President Bush in 2004.


    2. How is the composition of the Senate and House of Representives going to change as a result of this election?

    It has been reported that 87% of the US House seat's are in non-competitive districts, done to protect the incumbents and such. So there are 4o something seats that will be critical; also any Gary Condit like scandals will also bring down many a Congressperson if it should happen.

    As far as the Senate goes, I believe that with the Miguel Estrada nomination going the way it has, that I will up my previous prediction of the Republicans picking up 3 Senate seats; I revamp that: Republicans pick up 4 Seats now.

    3. Who will win the Presidential Election?

    George W Bush will win in a landslide no matter who he runs up against.

    4. How will the outcome of the election affect the various parts of the Judiciary and Executive branch? (In terms of appointments, confirmations, etc.)

    Under Team Dachle leadership, I believe there will be many a fillibuster now. However, should for example, one of the Liberal's on the Supreme Court pass awaym, Bush would probably lean on a conservitive to retire and then say "I will nominate a liberal to take that seat after a conservitive has been nominated".

    Conspiracy Theory ALert I firmly believe the problem the Democrat's face right now, is they don't realize that their message has failed, that they have not hit "Rock Bottom" yet, and as such can't begin to rebuild politically untill the face the facts that they need to change. I also beleive that HIllary Clinton's ambitions are great but cannot just leap past so many people in line ahead of her and push out long serving Democrat Senators.

    HOWEVER.....should these long serving Democrat Senate leaders be voted out of office in 2004, and Minority Leader Dachle, Minority Whip Harry Reid, and #3 Senate Democrat Leader Patty Murray all are up for Re-Election. HIllary can't just elbow them out of the way to take power.....but if they were voted out of office and thus leaving a power vaccumn, that would be totally different now, would'nt it?

    As such, I think there will be an effort on Team Clinton's part to try to undermine the above three, even if it costs the Democrat's even more seats in the Senate. Team Clinton will be able to say how the Democrat Party have hit Rock Bottom, and now must accept Team Clinton Leadership to "lead the way back".


    ATTN CALIFORNIANS we could even be having a Recall vote in 2004, if the effort to oust Governor Gray Davis goes thru....
    />
  3. Abner_Doon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 4
    "George W Bush will win in a landslide no matter who he runs up against."

    Provided Martin Sheen doesn't run...yes [face_mischief]
  4. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I am here to say, that despite BBB's blind adherence to Bush, he will NOT win 46 states, even if he manages to steal another election.
  5. JediBeowulf Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2001
    star 3
    "...if he manages to steal another election".

    Hey Obi, not to be disrespectful (I was taught to respect my elders ;)) but give it up already! I mean, do you Democrats honestly think that if you say it a certain amount of times, that it must be true?

    Gore lost legitimately...you all have denied the truth for the past 2 years, all the while demonizing Bush and his administration for your misconception...but its time to get over it and accept it. To quote Henry Jones Sr, "Let it go...". If you have to, enroll yourself in a support-group. :)

    As for the topic, I have a prediction about the Democratic party in general. I predict the Party will keep on sliding further and further left on the political spectrum. If this will help or hurt Democrats is yet to be seen.
  6. Epicauthor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2002
    star 4
    George W Bush will win in a landslide no matter who he runs up against.

    That is the one of the funniest comments I've heard.

    American's tend to vote with their wallets. It doesn't matter what else is going on (unless there is a major World War II type event, and let me tell you this war ain't it) any sitting president is vulnerable. If the economy stays bad AND the Democrats can unite behind a leader, GW will not get re-elected. If just one of those things happen, the Democrats still have a chance.

    Basically, short of a miracle, this is anyone's election.

    I find it amusing, that the Democratic Party, the party which used Welfare, PUblic Housing, Food Stamps, Social Engineering, and the other cabootle stuff they offer; how they have used the above to enslave the Black population of the United State's to them under the promise of how they must always vote Demcorat in order to improve their lives, which never.

    Pure rhetoric, PPOR.
  7. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    I seriously doubt Bush could win this thing. He is too unpopular. (Mind you, I am a Republican, I voted for him)

    Is there a way/chance the GOP might NOT nominate him for re-election? I honestly think that might improve their chances.

    (Of course I was also hoping they'd nominate McCain instead of Bush for 2000, and that didn't happen, did it?)



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  8. Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    Are you kidding that you don't think the GOP should or will re-nominate GWB in '04? LOL

    I'll tell you what I think will happen:

    1. The war will begin in earnest in ten days to two weeks.

    2. We will achieve quick victory with more casualties than in Gulf War I.

    3. After the war, gas prices will significantly drop.

    4. The markets will rebound significantly as the war jitters are over.

    5. The economy will start to come out of the recession that began in mid-2000.

    6. GWB will win re-election in 2004, not by a landslide, but he will win nonetheless.

    7. The Dems will lose seats in the US Senate again.
  9. AdmiralOzzal Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 1
    Whoa, eighteen months before the election and we are trying to predict the results . . . count me in . . . 8-}

    PRESIDENTIAL

    Republican: President Bush
    Democrats: John Kerry or Howard Dean

    Result: Bush wins (53% to 45%; 2% other)

    GUBERNATORIAL

    2003

    Kentucky: . . . . . held by (D); (R) pickup
    Louisiana:. . . . . held by (R); tossup
    Mississippi:. . . . held by (D); (R) pickup

    . . . . Result: +1 (R)

    2004

    Delaware: . . . . . held by (D); remains (D)
    Indianan: . . . . . held by (D); remains (D)
    Missouri: . . . . . held by (D); remains (D)
    Montana: . . . . . held by (R); remains (R)
    NH: . . . . . held by (D); remains (D)
    NC: . . . . . held by (D); (R) pickup
    ND: . . . . . held by (R); remains (R)
    Utah: . . . . . held by (R); remains (R)
    Vermont: . . . . . held by (D); remains (D)
    Wash: . . . . . held by (D); remains (D)
    WV: . . . . . held by (D); remains (D)

    . . . . . Result: +1 (R)

    SENATORIAL

    Robert Bennett (R) . . . UT . remains (R)
    Christopher Bond (R) . . MO . remains (R)
    Sam Brownback (R) . . KS . remains (R)
    Jim Bunning (R) . . KY . remains (R)
    Ben Campbell (R) . . CO . remains (R)
    Mike Crapo (R) . . ID . remains (R)
    Peter Fitzgerald (R) . . IL . (D) pickup
    Judd Gregg (R) . . . . . NH . remains (R)
    John McCain (R). . . . . AZ . remains (R)
    Murkowski (R) . . . . . AK . remains (R)
    Don Nickles (R) . . . . OK . remains (R)
    Richard Shelby (R) . . . AL . remains (R)
    Arlen Specter (R) . . . PA . remains (R)

    Evan Bayh (D). . . . . . IN . remains (D)
    Barbara Boxer (D). . . . CA . toss-up
    John Breauxs (D) . . . . LA . remains (D)
    Thomas Daschle (D) . . . ND . remains (D)
    Christopher Dood (D) . . CT . remains (D)
    Byron Dorgan (D) . . . . ND . remains (D)
    John Edwards (D) . . . . NC . (R) pickup
    Russel Feingold (D). . . WI . remains (D)
    Bob Graham (D) . . . . . FL . remains (D)
    Ernest Hollings (D). . . SC . (R) pickup
    Daniel Inouye (D). . . . HI . remains (D)
    Patric Leahy (D) . . . . VT . remains (D)
    Blanche Lincoln (D). . . AR . toss-up
    Barbara Mikulski (D) . . MD . remains (D)
    Zell Miller (D). . . . . GA . (R) pickup
    Patty Murray (D) . . . . WA . remains (D)
    Harry Reid (D) . . . . . NV . (R) pickup
    Charles Schumer (D). . . NY . remains (D)
    Ron Wyden (D). . . . . . OR . remains (D)

    . . . . . Results: +2 to +3 (R) pick-up in the Senate

    REPRESENTATIVES

    (R) will strengthen its hold in the House; +3 to +5 (R) pick-up in the house

  10. chibiangi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 4
    ATTN CALIFORNIANS we could even be having a Recall vote in 2004, if the effort to oust Governor Gray Davis goes thru....

    Please, please, please. Do you know where this recall stuff is happening? I can't find these people anywhere.
  11. Warriorpoet Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2001
    star 2
    I'm an independent, but I'll vote for the Devil himself if it get that warmongering, enviroment raping, S.O.B. Bush out of politics. So I'm putting my politcal veiws away, I'm going to support who ever wins the Democratic Nom.

    DEMOCRATES, get it tegether, 2004 may well be Freedoms last stand.

    For those who hate the 'Theif of State' as much as I do, check out gwbush.com
  12. Epicauthor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2002
    star 4
    DEMOCRATES, get it tegether, 2004 may well be Freedoms last stand.

    I don't know if it's freedom's last stand (although it's beginning to look like it), but I do agree that the democrats nees to get it together. They all need to find a leader and unite. Then and only then can they win.

    Someone said they'd rather vote for Satan than GWB. I find that funny because horrible people often make good leaders. Look at Clinton and Bush.

    Clinton, while probably not someone I'd want to hang out with, was an amazing leader. Bush, while someone who I could have a beer with, is stumbling on the whole "leader" thing.

    The Democrats need to find a LEADER.
  13. JediBeowulf Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2001
    star 3
    "I'm an independent, but I'll vote for the Devil himself if it get that warmongering, enviroment raping, S.O.B. Bush out of politics. So I'm putting my politcal veiws away, I'm going to support who ever wins the Democratic Nom."

    I love how people on all sides of the political spectrum use their status as "Independents" to claim Impartiality! Left-wing "independents" can call Bush a Moron, or a S.O.B. because hey, they're independents and it must be true since they are not 'biased'! [face_laugh] The same thing happens with some obviously right-wing talk show hosts, who claim they are "independent" to draw in a wider audience, but we all know they vote Republican. People...just come out and admit what you are already!

    Also, if I may ask...where does your (and others) viceral hate of GWB come from? I mean, I can understand it if you didn't like the man for his policies, or because he lied under oath while in office (oops, that's Clinton...my bad) - but it honestly seems like people physically hate GWB on a personal level, almost as if they knew him. What, did he come to your house and kick your puppy when you were a kid or something?

    "DEMOCRATES, get it tegether, 2004 may well be Freedoms last stand."

    What are you...a Drama student? "Freedom's last Stand"??? How dramatic and ominous! From your statement, it seems that GWB is going to personally open the gates to Hell and unleash plagues and pestilence upon mankind. Now...you don't honestly believe this do you? And by the way, if anyone wants to take away your freedom and liberties, it's the beaurocrats in Washington D.C. who want to increase the size and power of the government, therefore decreasing the power of the people. In case you're wondering, i'm not talking about GW. ;)
  14. Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 6
    I am a Democrat, but I tend to think of myself as a moderate looking at the pros and cons of both sides. However, as long as GW continues to drill for oil in national parks, I will oppose him.

    I hope that Bob Graham wins the Democratic nomination, as he is a fellow Floridian like myself, so I am biased in that regard. ;) My chief care for politics is the enviroment and social programs, and as long as the Democrats support those two issues, then they have my vote.

    I say that we should forget about the oil, and concentrate on some kind of more enviromentally friendly form of energy. We are going to run out of oil one day, we might as well research other methods of energy today, instead of tommorow.
  15. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I would WAY rather have beers with Clinton than Bush, but even though I am opposed to many of the policies of the Bush Administation, especially the arrogance they display in the face of world opinion, but I think he'd be a great guy to sit around and have a few beers with.

    But seriously, did you guys watch that Press Conference? The President came off looking pretty bumbling if you ask me, he answered every question the same way. It was more like an Onion article than a real press conference!
  16. Jediflyer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    Obiwan, were we watching different press conferences or did you just have a fork in your eyeball?

    I think he did fabulous. He showed his seriousness for the Iraq situation and let the American people know that he knows what is going through there minds. He gave them reasons for why he was taking the hard line and showed his sincerity the whole way through.

    Every news commentary that I watched following the press conference (I was watching it on 4 of the 9 or so channels it was on) said the same thing. The only reservation they had about it was is lack of explanation regardin why he thinks the Europeans are so up in arms for peace.
  17. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Honestly, it was my opinion, the fork in the eye comment is unnecessary.

    In addition, most of the articles I read (including conservative Chicago Tribune) said that the conference only pleased the majority of those that already agreed with Bush's position, that it didn't do anything to bolster the fears of the people that are weary about war, and did not in any way create an atmosphere that would convince weary foreign nations to join us.

    In addition, Bush used a cheat sheat for picking reporters such that he could avoid tough anti-war reporters questions. Ari Fleisher confirmed that he wrote teh President's cheat sheat.
  18. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    "I am here to say, that despite BBB's blind adherence to Bush, he will NOT win 46 states, even if he manages to steal another election."

    Obiwan come on now. Look if Gore had done the simple thing and won his own home state of Tenn then he wouldn't have had to worry about what happened in Florida whether he got the votes in Florida or not. He would have won had he won his own state.

    He didn't and to me that is pretty scary when a person running for president of the U.S. cannot even win support in his home state.

    Bush all the way in 2004. I only wish I could go back through time and vote for him back in 2000 which I didn't do. I was upset my man McCain didn't get the Republican nomination and so I didn't vote for Bush, but I've seen the errors of my ways and Bush is a very good President and he will get us through these troubled times one way or another.

    If it were up to me I could live out my life never having to endure another Democrat in office.
  19. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Gephardt IMHO would make an excellent president, but he is most likely unelectable.

    It needs to be Kerry, if for no other reason than he is the only candidate that could probably fund-raise (from his own coffers, if need be) enough to begin to match Dubya's projected $250 million campaign chest.

    I will say though, that despite those who blindly believe in Bush's and the GOP's invulnerability, quick war or not, the economy will not be turning around with the projected budget deficits anytime soon. 308,000 jobs lost last month alone, the lowest consumer confidence index rating since 1993, billions ratcheted to the military with staggering tax cuts-this is not a formula for economic success. My not being an economist, however, I will stop here.

    The bottom line is that the election will be decided probably by...the bottom line, and however it looks come November '04. Speculating about it now is fun but fairly useless, as things can change either way in a heartbeat.

    Peace,

    V-03
  20. Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    V03 said:

    Gephardt IMHO would make an excellent president.


    You. have. got. to. be. kidding. me. [face_laugh] I can't stand that guy! LOL I don't think he's a good choice for the Dems, IMHO. He couldn't even retain the minority leadership of Congress, shifting the party to the left with Pelosi and hurting their chances for picking up seats and gaining the White House in '04.

    Speculating about it now is fun but fairly useless, as things can change either way in a heartbeat.


    I agree with that statment. Who the heck knows what can happen in 1 & 1/2 years time?

    As I stated above, after the war is over, you can place good money on the bet that the economy will improve, gas prices will drop, and we'll be on the road to recovery.

    I think GWB will retain the White House, and the GOP will pick up seats in the US Senate.
  21. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Bush's '04 Campaign Quietly Being Planned Advisers See Raising Up to $250 Million

    By Mike Allen and Dan Balz
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Monday, March 3, 2003; Page A01

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [/i]President Bush has postponed his reelection campaign until after a war with Iraq, but White House and Republican Party strategists have begun planning for a contest in which they envision raising as much as $250 million to wage a battle designed to break the political stalemate of the 1990s and make the GOP the country's majority party.

    Bush has told advisers that he will neither discuss with them nor authorize them to begin any formal activity for a 2004 campaign until the confrontation with Iraq has been resolved. But he has given them his blessing to begin discussions and planning for such a campaign.

    "We've got a green light to think about it, plan about it, but a red light on doing anything," said one of the advisers. He said the president has told his team, in essence, "Go figure it out, get ready to talk to me about it, but not now."

    Fewer than 10 people, under the direction of White House senior adviser Karl Rove, architect of the party's 2002 midterm victories, are mapping the closely held strategy. In addition, about two dozen Republicans have agreed to recruit new members for Bush's enormous fundraising network, according to participants.

    The discussions include campaign personnel assignments, the structure of media and polling operations, preliminary assessments of an electoral map strategy and, with help from the Republican National Committee, intensive opposition research on the large field of Democratic presidential candidates.

    One early decision was to increase the price of admission for the Pioneers, Bush's premier fundraisers who, in 2000, raised $100,000 each for the campaign. The nation's new campaign finance law doubles the ceiling for individual contributions in the primary season, to $2,000. In light of that, the new threshold for Pioneers -- all of whom get prestige and bragging rights, while a few get administration appointments -- will grow to $200,000 or possibly $250,000.

    Some Bush strategists have discussed using direct mail to raise a substantial amount of money from big donors, and the campaign would start with a list of about 69,000 individuals who contributed the maximum to Bush in 2000. That approach would not mean eliminating all fundraising galas featuring the president -- which some longtime donors find to be old hat -- but would be a low-key way to raise money in large chunks.

    "Frankly, I think many big donors would favor that," said a Republican strategist close to the White House.

    In 2000, the Bush campaign broke all previous records by raising about $100 million. GOP strategists say Bush advisers are talking about raising $200 million to $225 million, but they said the upper limit might hit $250 million. Asked whether there was a dollar amount beyond which it would appear unseemly for the campaign to keep raising money, one Bush adviser said, "I guess you could make that case. I'm not certain what that point is." He added that he doubted the reelection committee could raise that much, in any case.

    This money would be spent for campaign activities in 2003 until the Republican National Convention in August 2004. The nominees of both parties receive public funds for the general election.

    Some campaign planners had discussed launching fundraising efforts this month, which was when Bush began raising money in 1999. But officials decided it would appear unseemly to start raising money when U.S. troops might be at war in the Persian Gulf. Similar concerns prompted the White House to cancel Bush's planned trips to New Hampshire and Iowa shortly after his State of the Union address in January.

    The delays in assembling the reelection campaign's mechanical pieces have caused some frustration among GOP strategists, but White House officials doubt the late start will prove a genui
  22. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    We'll see, DM :D.

    I meant what I said about Gephardt-flaws aside (and Bush has many), the man does possess a good deal of experience, and he is a moderate, which puts me in step with him.

    Look at the other choices:

    Dean-way too liberal. Unelectable.

    Sharpton-I would agree with your "you,have,got,to,be,kidding,me" statement 100% on his candidacy. A freeloader.

    Kerry-the likely winner, and rich to boot. Wouldn't be afraid to stand up to Bush like Daschle came across as.

    Edwards-potentially a serious challenger, if he weren't green as grass. A trial lawyer, which makes him easy for the GOP to smear.

    Lieberman-we're not electing a jewish president just yet (and I am jewish); too conservative for the liberal democratic base.

    Biden-not going anywhere. Staying in the senate.

    Anyway, those are the ones that I think should be taken seriously. Here's to hoping things get better with the economy, and in the world and such, but I'll believe it when I see it. Also, the consistent beating that the dems have taken, along with the cluttered field, will produce a strong candidate with a strong message. It's like the process of turning coal into diamonds. Intense pressure, intense changes-and a polished finished product.

    I still give it Bush in '04, but I think it will be extrememly close once again, and just as brutal (he he, I can't wait :D). Also, in regards to the above article, for the GOP to become the "majority party for years to come" (snort), they will have to move much more towards the center, something the party hasn't been doing much of since Bush took over.

    If they keep silencing the moderates, they'll leave.

    Just my $0.02

    Peace,

    V-03
  23. Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    Should be interesting to watch, V03.

    If they keep silencing the moderates, they'll leave.


    It seems to me that the Dems are moving more to the left than the GOP is moving to the right. The GOP is moving more towards the center on most issues where you have a vocal minority of the Democratic Party really doing damage to its national image.

    The biggest problem with the Dems is that they don't present a clear message to the public. In my opinion, they simply don't want to present their true liberal leanings because it will alienate them with the heartland and in many areas outside of big cities on the east and west coasts. So, they bounce around on issues like a punch drunk boxer.
  24. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    I don't know, it depends on who you talk to.

    Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but in my area, the dominant philosophy is pro-choice, pro-education, anti-gun, pro-(at least somewhat) separation of church and state middle-to-upper-class GOP.

    Philadelphia itself is dominated by union democrat, but the comment you made about the left hurting the dems seems to be how most people around here view the GOP and the right. Most of the people with whom I've spoken, and most of them are GOP, don't want Bush back in power, and feel that his focus is too ideologically far-right.

    It just amazes how me different perspective is amongst different areas of the country, yet we all still get along.

    Good to talk to you, DM :).

    Peace,

    V-03
  25. Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    It would be quite boring if everyone thought alike, don't you think V03? [face_laugh]

    My best friend's family is from Connecticut (he was born there), and they're very liberal as well. We get along great, even though he knows he's wrong all the time. ;) :p [face_laugh]
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