Amph The Amazing Spider-Man (and Spin-offs)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Spiderfan, May 20, 2008.

  1. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    I like that they don't state it, that they don't need to state it. Ben's message is still clear and Peter learns the lesson the hard way.
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Unfortunately I've been watching it in blocs, and not in one sitting, just because of time commitments. I stand by my enjoyment of it though; this is a proper Spiderman film. The Raimi films were enjoyable but similar to the Burton Batman film insofar as being novel, refreshing, but not quite there in terms of getting the character right. The scene during the school fight where Spidey crawls all over the Lizard, webbing him up, was such a standout moment for me - not because Spidey necessarily did that a lot in the comics (how do you illustrate that?) but because it emphasised the fluidity of his movement.

    Plus, Gwen over Mary-Jane. SUCH a better decision.
  3. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    I wish it wasn't trying to be 5 different films, though. At least Raimi's are of a piece.

    Hopefully Webb gets more control for the sequel. The best bits of this one are obviously his moments (the skateboard stuff, the Garfield/Stone scenes, et cetera).
  4. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I think with this I just dismissed it given that the Raimi ones are still so fresh in the memory. Big mistake.
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  5. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Wasn't the plan for him to be in Spider-Man 4 before it became a reboot?
  6. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5

    I believe it was supposed to be the Vulteress.
  7. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I heard John Malkovich was considered to play Vulture before the movie got cancelled.
  8. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    The villains of all three Raimi films changed a couple of times with Vulture showing up in preliminary plans for several of the films. At one time the name floating around to play him was Ben Kingsley (who is now busy being the Mandarin).
  9. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    And Anne Hathaway as the daughter.
  10. Violent Violet Menace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2004
    star 4
    I would have put the Vulture in the third one, instead of Sandman and Venom, personally. I'd have kept Harry as the new Goblin, and have him and Peter unite against the Vulture, as also happened in the last act of SM3. But I also would have made it a bit more high stakes for Harry, having Toomes (Vulture) be eyeing Oscorp and making life miserable for Harry somehow, giving Harry a more personal dog in the fight.
    Last edited by Violent Violet Menace, Nov 8, 2012
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  11. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Indeed, Sandman looked great but was a meh villain IMO. Black-suit Spidey is fine to use, but then leave Venom's creation until the very end to build for the next one instead of shoving him into the end of the movie and runing his character.
  12. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Despite the outcome I actually liked Sandman. They managed to give him at least some character motivation, and while his story ultimately went no-where, and the tie-in to Uncle Ben's death was regrettable, I thought he was the better villain of the three. Harry was fun, but I never liked his New Goblin concept, he was inneffective until he found an understanding with Peter and became an ally again. Venom could have worked but probably should have been spread over two films (I recall there were once plans for there to be two films back to back) where Venom's revenge is better implemented over the entirety of the second film as Peter tries to redeem himself for his actions while under the influence of the black suit.
  13. soitscometothis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    You mean the dancing?
  14. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Venom had no build-up really, Eddie Brock was poorly developed and evil Peter Parker was poorly executed for large parts (silly Travolta strutting especially). Plus the whole split-personality thing wasn't done, not that it had to be but it is something that defines Venom as opposed to Carnage who sees himself as a single entity.

    None of it was interesting, it would have been better had the conflict with the suit been more like in the 90s cartoon where it kept trying to kill people and Parker had to save them and fight against the symbiote's desires. There wasn't enough of that in the film apart from when Spidey got really mad at Sandman and nearly destroyed him.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Nov 8, 2012
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  15. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I for one would love to see a film version made of Venom: Funeral Pyre*.


    * By this I mean, no.
  16. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    I HAD TO KILL YOUR UNCLE BEN TO PAY FOR MY DAUGHTER'S OPERATION
  17. Violent Violet Menace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2004
    star 4
    The main problem of SM3 is that it's too crowded. From one villain per flick, they suddenly have three villains in one. It was so crowded that Sandman had to resolve his conflict on his own, because there simply wasn't time. After having been subdued, and sitting by the sidelines off camera while his ally (Venom) is being defeated, he comes back at the end just to admit to Peter that he can't think of a reason why he was fighting him before, because the writers forgot to give him one. [face_plain] Then, he decides that he won't let crappy writers push him around anymore and leaves.
    Last edited by Violent Violet Menace, Nov 8, 2012
  18. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    1. Martin Sheen and Sally Field were terrible casting choices....Sheen was especially terrible playing his game of "say the great power line without saying the line" and came off as more of a crotchety half-senile old coot than a wise mentor/father figure.

    2. So Oscorp has...THOUSANDS of spiders that with one bite can transform a regular person into a wall-crawling superhero with ESP.
    And yet...nobody else has ever been bitten?

    3. Peter Parker was a ****. Completely unlikable.

    4. The **** was up with the Lizard's character design?
    They crossed the Super Mario Brothers Goomba with Jackie Earle Haley's Freddie Krueger.

    Ultimately, I didn't care for this movie. I didn't hate it.....but it wasn't very good.
    The best thing about it was Emma Stone.
    Darth_Invidious and Valyn like this.
  19. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    While it certainly was a problem in SM3, I feel like the "too many villains" excuse doesn't appropriately address the real problem. The issue was poor execution. Rather than working on an ensemble, SM3 short-changed three individual villain plots that just spent time colliding with each other rather than meshing. But as Nolan's Batman films demonstrated, the use of many villains is not in and of itself a problem, and can be rather rather captivating when properly executed...as an ensemble, where each villain was a distinct role to play in a larger story rather than having multiple parallel stories interfering with each other.

    EDIT: Also I disagree with just about everything Aytee just said. In fact I am under the impression we watched entirely different movies.
    Last edited by Spider-Fan, Nov 8, 2012
  20. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I think more villains can have short cameo roles. ASM 2 could open with Spidey having taken out Rhino or Shocker or some other less major villain, or have him fight said bad-guy early on in the movie while the big-bad is on the rise in the background somewhere. Not every villain needs a big role, just the big ones.
  21. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    I've said that for years. It also lets you deal with characters who don't have a lot to offer in terms of character but are visually interesting, and a fun short sequence to open the film, or presents a momentary obstacle.
  22. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Part of the multi-villain problems of SM3 was Raimi as well- he obviously didn't want Venom in the film, but was forced to use him (since more people would want to see the black suit storyline than a Sandman movie), so Sandman got shortchanged on screen time to accomodate the black suit and New Goblin got shortchanged to accommodate Venom. And Venom got shortchanged because Raimi either didn't want to do a fourth film or didn't want to have to center another film around a character he didn't want to use (thus we got the slap in the face that was Brock's death).
  23. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    He's a weirdo. Which is what I think he should be.

    Also, Field's pretty damn good, I thought.
  24. hear+soul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 6
    I would have had the green goblin actually be the green goblin.
    I would have had Venom being scary and imposing. (on both sides of the coin)
    I would have cut Sandman.

    Sandman was the best part of the film, but that's because it fit best with Raimi's vision and he's who HE wanted to do. He, apparently, totally lost interest in the Harry plot-line he had been developing for TWO MOVIES and, of course, shoe-horned in venom because, presumably, it was mandated, and fit with the story or something.

    Harry, IMO, was the biggest travesty of the 3rd film. of all the things to squander... Spidey's second biggest villain, besides the green goblin... is the green goblin. and to build up that storyline to have him become rocket-racer...

    If you had a GG (legit scary GG- even scarier than the first one) as the big, deep, truly scary threat and Venom as the immediate... well they both would have been deep... it just would have made for a truly frightening scenario. including sandman was selfish on Raimi's part, IMO, even if the studio should have let him do his thing in the first place.
    Last edited by Darth_Deception, Nov 8, 2012
  25. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    I and my friends who also saw this on opening night had the exact same gripes. Uncle Ben never came off as a mentor figure. And his "did you humiliate that boy?" scene was kind of dumb. The Raimi film's after-fighting-Flash scene was done much better.

    And Peter wasn't likeable or relatable at all. The loner skateboarder scenes were just lame and never invoked impressions of the Peter Parker I and my friends grew up with.

    Toby's Peter, by contrast, was far more relatable and definitely reminded me of the Peter Parker from my childhood.

    And, srsly. The Lizard was AWFUL. The CGI was terrible. It's been, what, almost 10 years since LotR, and yet this movie can't deliver an adequate CGI character? Sony was willing to give the Raimi films a nice budget. Maybe they didn't believe enough in this reboot to offer the same kind of financial support?

    And the Spidey costume was almost as bad as SM1's Green Goblin suit.

    I think some of you here simply disliked Toby's portrayal of Spider-Man so much that you're ignoring TAS's numerous shortcomings and outright failures.


    But if you genuinely liked it, then that's your business. I don't care either way. I just have yet to meet a single person IRL who enjoyed it at all.